What is going on with this 1805 Half? How did I think it was PMD,XF-40(ex-EF-40) and not cleaned- w
TexasNationals
Posts: 3,837 ✭
I recently bought this coin and the seller seems upset that I claim it is Post Mint Damage and seems to think I am just a joke and know nothing about coins. As soon as I got it I thought rubber band, period. If you look at the overall picture and the close ups with the black verdigirs left after the harsh clean here was my thought. So it comes from 2:00 into the face then turns back into the cheek. Notice the discoloration and see the lines on each side of the discoloration when something has chewed into the surface of the coin. Deep lines led me to beleive that it was a old rubberband that bowed upwards leaving the edges touching the coin and the chemicals reacting with the silver, pittin the coin from star, all the way to the head where it turns and goes back down to the cheek. Obviously I don't know what I am talking about and the seller must be right that this is a natural planchet flaw. So please educate me so I know how to describe it, how did it happen. I know the pics are so-so sorry. If was an Ex-XXX company XF-40, the seller is questioning me as it is clearly AU-50+, not cleaned and a obvious planchet flaw, not PMD. Please explain so I know going forward how I missed the undergrading, though it was cleaned and a planchet flaw not PMD. Geezy Louisy this is embarrasing. Thanks team.
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Comments
the mint made 'adjustment marks' that were file scrapings to lower the weight of overweight planchets to mint specs
someone took a file, and scraped off filings of the silver before striking
when they are deep, they show after striking
the following is a pic of a PCGS graded coin that was sold through Heritage (thx Heritage for letting me link your pic so easily)
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
The marks on the coin in question are not straight. I do not know the previous history of this coin; but obviously it has one.
Yet the pics you've enclosed look pretty harsh and I'm not sure what I'm seeing as it looks like gouges
<< <i>My only reason is to discren fact from fiction. Fiction goes along way, but facts speek for themself. Sin1, thanks for the response, I have many coins with adjustment mark. I have never seen any marks anything like the ones pictured. The clack chunk left behind from whatever matches the toning pattern and damage exactly so I ruled that out long ago. >>
Yes fact from fiction is VERY important:
"I have an 1805 Draped bust half that I am in deep for and might be a problem coin or might be a strike thru. If it is a strike thru it might be an AU coin. Any interest in that? Plan was to send it to NGC "
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"Yes I am interested, do you have pics? How much? "
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"here is the draped half. I paid 1900$ for it. It is currently raw. Was hoping it would make an AU 50 NGC with strike thru or lamiantion. The forum has never been able to agree on what it is but not many people thougt it was PMD which is what i thought. Consensus was strike thru. "
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"I am thinking it is PMD, $1900 is too much for me on that coin......I will go $1400"
Here is that "segs" holder i keep lying about.
Here is the picture sent to you in the PM before purchase:
Is this an AT/NT thread, a coin cleaning thread or a PMD/Strikethru thread or all of the above?
<< <i>Oh wow. I haven't seen any of the original threads on this coin. But I am confused, seeing the pics of this coin in what appears to be multiple states.
Is this an AT/NT thread, a coin cleaning thread or a PMD/Strikethru thread or all of the above? >>
Nothing was done to the coin since the crack out. It was just photographed more closely to try and figure out what the markings were and those pics are in my thread on this piece. The OPS pictures seem more of an attempt to focus on the marks rather than present the coins color et cetera. The coin in hand, as long as I had it, looked 100% as pictured in my pictures. I am not sure what the OP would claim the coin looks like now in his hands.
My intention is to confirm these questions:
1) Not struck thru, but PMD and best guess is rubber band
2) Coin has been cleaned
3) Grade is XF-40
4) Toning? Not sure
I am interested in the following to decide what steps come next. mY first step is an acetone soak to remove the remaining verdigris. Not sure if it is worthy of an ANANCS net grade once the corrosive material is nuertalized. What are your thoughts. I am leaning toward just keeping her raw in the Dansco.
<< <i>I bought the coin knowing it was a problem coin. FACT I am not the one trying to convince others it is proble free FACT. I am not going to get into this with you MUMU. I paid what I thought was fair and bought it. I am not going to post our PM's like you have. We both know what the truth is and I posted it to get re-inforcement that the rubber band is right as it is my coin and I am deciding what to do with it for now. Now, I blocked you from PM's, I have no interest in talking to you. My re-buy offer stands, so if you feel the need to discuss further you know my email addy and you can say what you want to me. I spoke my peace, you can say what you want, but I have no use for someone like you. Until you repay, it is my coin. Sorry ICG not SEGS, if that is your best, you are going to have to do better. I am not interested in your opinion or input as you had your chance to crack it and get it into a AU-50 holder and make $1300+. Didn't and wont happen. Go back to backing out of deals and changing terms with other buyers. I have been clear and walked a straight line. >>
I have no interest in attacks with you but I will answer to accusations agasint me as ANYONE here would. Therfore I must ask, who am I trying to convince it is problem free and where am I doing that?
<< <i>adamlaneus,
My intention is to confirm these questions:
1) Not struck thru, but PMD and best guess is rubber band
2) Coin has been cleaned
3) Grade is XF-40
4) Toning? Not sure
I am interested in the following to decide what steps come next. mY first step is an acetone soak to remove the remaining verdigris. Not sure if it is worthy of an ANANCS net grade once the corrosive material is nuertalized. What are your thoughts. I am leaning toward just keeping her raw in the Dansco. >>
There is no verdigris on that coin and it has spent 24 hours in acetone recently. I can supply bigger pics if you would like to discuss the verdigris issue further.
<< <i>Mumu, I have not touched the coin, I am trying to stop the corrosion and damage. No attempts have been made to even imply you did anything to it. It is nice, it just is what it is. Thats all. >>
In regard to the verdigris I am not responding for the sake of argument, but for the sake of clarification in the coins best interest. I am fairly certain there is no verigris on the coin but if you are sure there is I would reccomend photgrpahing it and having someone here confirming it. I dont think anyone would say, and no one has, from my pictures or yours that there is verdigris on the coin. And after crackout it went straight into the intercept shield snaptight that you received it in so there was no exposure to anything that would bring v to the coin. Where exactly are you saying there is verdigris?
Thanks,
The material is very much raised, but the pics dont show it well.
<< <i>
The material is very much raised, but the pics dont show it well. >>
I am very familiar with that coin and that area specifically. Look closer, it is not verdigris. Have you ever seen those peace dollars that have areas of proof like reflections? Like scattered polishing or something? I do not know what that is called but that is what it is. Very highly polished reflective areas. There is an area in the hair that has the same refelctivity. Look closer I assure you that is what it is.
<< <i>Mumu, I just removed it with acetone and a tooth pick. It is black crust that doesn't belong on the coin. Underneath is the same toning as where the rest was removed and the same corrosion lines in the exact shape of the verdigris. It is off not, but not part of the coin. It looks like a rubber band, old rubber band. >>
Ive no idea where that crust came from then. Here is a hi res pic I took right after crackout and before it found its way into the intercept shield holder you received it in. Notice the same area you have circled. It is toned blue. I dont think verdigris tones blue?
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Do you realize that both you guys are embarrassing yourselves don't you? This is thread that didn't need to exist. Much like most threads on this forum lately. MJ >>
I disagree. He suddenly found verdigris on the coin. More proof that I am a huge scammer. Gotta out the scammers to protect everyone else dont you think?
<< <i>
<< <i>Do you realize that both you guys are embarrassing yourselves don't you? This is thread that didn't need to exist. Much like most threads on this forum lately. MJ >>
I disagree. He suddenly found verdigris on the coin. More proof that I am a huge scammer. Gotta out the scammers to protect everyone else dont you think? >>
I haven't seen anything in this thead which alleged that you were aware of the verdigris, trying to hide anything or that you are a scammer. Please get over this and move on.
And for the record, I agree with MJ.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Do you realize that both you guys are embarrassing yourselves don't you? This is thread that didn't need to exist. Much like most threads on this forum lately. MJ >>
I disagree. He suddenly found verdigris on the coin. More proof that I am a huge scammer. Gotta out the scammers to protect everyone else dont you think? >>
I haven't seen anything in this thead which alleged that you were aware of the verdigris, trying to hide anything or that you are a scammer. Please get over this and move on.
And for the record, I agree with MJ. >>
again the voice of reason, I agree with you both.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Do you realize that both you guys are embarrassing yourselves don't you? This is thread that didn't need to exist. Much like most threads on this forum lately. MJ >>
I disagree. He suddenly found verdigris on the coin. More proof that I am a huge scammer. Gotta out the scammers to protect everyone else dont you think? >>
I haven't seen anything in this thead which alleged that you were aware of the verdigris, trying to hide anything or that you are a scammer. Please get over this and move on.
And for the record, I agree with MJ. >>
There was an accusation implied in the first post that I was trying to lie about the damage which was followed up by this statement a few posts later
"I am not the one trying to convince others it is proble free "...
I was defending myself agaisnt what I can call nothing short of a lie.
Maybe only important members here are allowed to defend themsleves agasint lies agaisnt them?
I will bow out of this for now. I realize this place is an insiders club so to speak. Some people can complain and talk about certain things while the plebes are suppose to sit around and awe at the big rich guys with the expensive coins. Ive noticed that long before any of these messes unraveled but just drifted along. Im not the first person to notice that either. There are some great people here but luckily they are also on other boards so...thanks to those who have supported. Ill be in touch about buy backs soon hopefully.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Do you realize that both you guys are embarrassing yourselves don't you? This is thread that didn't need to exist. Much like most threads on this forum lately. MJ >>
I disagree. He suddenly found verdigris on the coin. More proof that I am a huge scammer. Gotta out the scammers to protect everyone else dont you think? >>
I haven't seen anything in this thead which alleged that you were aware of the verdigris, trying to hide anything or that you are a scammer. Please get over this and move on.
And for the record, I agree with MJ. >>
There was an accusation implied in the first post that I was trying to lie about the damage which was followed up by this statement a few posts later
"I am not the one trying to convince others it is proble free "...
I was defending myself agaisnt what I can call nothing short of a lie.
Maybe only important members here are allowed to defend themsleves agasint lies agaisnt them?
I will bow out of this for now. I realize this place is an insiders club so to speak. Some people can complain and talk about certain things while the plebes are suppose to sit around and awe at the big rich guys with the expensive coins. Ive noticed that long before any of these messes unraveled but just drifted along. Im not the first person to notice that either. There are some great people here but luckily they are also on other boards so...thanks to those who have supported. Ill be in touch about buy backs soon hopefully. >>
Yes, you and your posts are living proof of how certain forum members, such as yourself, are discriminated against and don't get to voice any complaints about anything or any one.
b) around 18 of posts are from the two combatants making it a defacto PM war in the public domain. Nothing more then airing dirty laundry. Is either one of you blocking each others PM's If so this thread really sucks.
I've learned that when I eliminated drama in my life it got a whole lot better. You are both probably really nice guys but I'm PM blocking both of you ( not that either of you would care). It's just not worth any hassles down the road. Carry on. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Thanks,
And just now discovering that the previous owner messed with the coin once raw without disclosure prior to the sale.
okay, after seeing the full pick with blue around the edges. I can see it is not adjustment marks but something else
and the 2 most probable things are what the arguments are over I guess
strikethrough or rubberband induced toning/corrosion/staining
have you considered NCS to NGC?
at least they would be able to probably tell what it is
<< <i>MJ, thanks for answering the original question which has been stated twice now. Please don't put me in the boat with others, I asked a question and was hoping for answers or positive conributions, not to start a flame. But so far your 2 responses have done nothing but continue the drama which leads away from the original and restated question. How exactly are you better when if you have nothing to say don't say anything, but you have nothing positive and say it anyways. Hey pot, it's kettle, I'm black.
Thanks, >>
Please read your first post to this thread. It appears to include sarcastic comments, as well shots at Mumu. If you truly wanted answers about the coin and not flames, that was a very poor way to go about it.
<< <i>
<< <i>MJ, thanks for answering the original question which has been stated twice now. Please don't put me in the boat with others, I asked a question and was hoping for answers or positive conributions, not to start a flame. But so far your 2 responses have done nothing but continue the drama which leads away from the original and restated question. How exactly are you better when if you have nothing to say don't say anything, but you have nothing positive and say it anyways. Hey pot, it's kettle, I'm black.
Thanks, >>
Please read your first post to this thread. It appears to include sarcastic comments, as well shots at Mumu. If you truly wanted answers about the coin and not flames, that was a very poor way to go about it. >>
This is just a continuation of a locked thread. Yes, in retrospect you are correct in the fact I shouldn't have even posted to it. Carry on, you guys are doing just great. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I was in the wrong and done now, and honestly to see you say that garners tremendous repect from me to you, seriously. Thank you!
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
or at least go get a room. geez...
Then go put the coin on eBay so it goes away forever.