Do you think that this Unprofessional, Funny, both, or neither?
halfcentman
Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭
As you can tell, when I am not engrossed in Half Cent projects, I love discussing coin show scenarios.
When I used to set up at coin shows (I don't anymore because I do not have the patience), I had a nice, problem free "EAC" Fine-12 1800 Half Cent. When I did shows, I always allowed myself about 10-15% of wiggle room so I could play the "negotiating" game. However, one thing I despise (even to this day) is haggling.
I think I brought this up in the body of another thread, but I wanted to make this topic separate for opinions and thoughts:
I had a customer look at the coin, and the price was marked $175.00. My bottom line price was $150.00, and it's a coin I could have sold 10 of if I had that many. He makes an offer of $100.00. I told him that his offer was unacceptable and gave him my price of $155.00. He then proceeds to add a whopping $5.00 to his offer. I told him that it was anywhere close to an acceptable offer and he left.
FOUR TIMES he comes back to me and increases his offer, eventually to $150.00. I had a friend who was looking at the coin who I knew would buy it. I quoted him $145.00 and he bought it. Not surprisingly, the other guy went ballistic and wondered why I would sell the coin to the other guy for $5.00 less - to which my reply was put simply "that's an agita-free customer discount!"
He still could not understand it. The people around me (who knew me VERY well) were laughing so hard that they almost peed their pants. I know business is business, but it was worth it for me to get $5.00 less and sell the coin to someone I liked, and did not aggravate me.
Your thoughts,
Greg
When I used to set up at coin shows (I don't anymore because I do not have the patience), I had a nice, problem free "EAC" Fine-12 1800 Half Cent. When I did shows, I always allowed myself about 10-15% of wiggle room so I could play the "negotiating" game. However, one thing I despise (even to this day) is haggling.
I think I brought this up in the body of another thread, but I wanted to make this topic separate for opinions and thoughts:
I had a customer look at the coin, and the price was marked $175.00. My bottom line price was $150.00, and it's a coin I could have sold 10 of if I had that many. He makes an offer of $100.00. I told him that his offer was unacceptable and gave him my price of $155.00. He then proceeds to add a whopping $5.00 to his offer. I told him that it was anywhere close to an acceptable offer and he left.
FOUR TIMES he comes back to me and increases his offer, eventually to $150.00. I had a friend who was looking at the coin who I knew would buy it. I quoted him $145.00 and he bought it. Not surprisingly, the other guy went ballistic and wondered why I would sell the coin to the other guy for $5.00 less - to which my reply was put simply "that's an agita-free customer discount!"
He still could not understand it. The people around me (who knew me VERY well) were laughing so hard that they almost peed their pants. I know business is business, but it was worth it for me to get $5.00 less and sell the coin to someone I liked, and did not aggravate me.
Your thoughts,
Greg
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
The norm in most countries is to "haggle" and it's an insult if negotiation isn't done.
Trying to figure out what motivates each potential customer is part of the sales challenge and can be fun.
And on the other hand, sometimes I am just not in the mood either so what you did isn't lost on me at all.
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Maybe next time he will be more realistic with his starting offer.
As a professional who deals with the public, you have to expect things like that. I don't have an issue with your saying your bottom line price is $155, and the guy comes back four times and asks. That is part of doing business on the bourse.
If the first buyer and the second buyer were standing there at the same time, personally, I would have quoted the second buyer the same $155. I don't know what was gained by [perhaps unintentionally] insulting the first buyer, although one should not worry how the bourse slithering, unwashed hoi polloi feel or think.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
meaning.. why bother tell him what it sold for? just to upset him?
anyway...
I swear I had that EXACT buyer hassle me for a coin back about 1995. Out of thousands of sales over 20+ years, I still remember this guy.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
Nothing worse than "hammering" when you're just trying to do a simple deal.....
was and basically just haggles with the customer...
would it be so hard to say the lowest i will go.. is 155, end of story? come back if you
like that price. but it seems that was never said inviting the process of haggling
to continue. After all, the OP did drop it from 175 to 155... the customer might
have thought there was room for a bit more discussion.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>I think that the buyer lost the opportunity to be treated respectfully when he gave you the lowball offer. After that, you had license to mess with him in any way that you wanted, up to and including giving away the coin or destroying it right before his eyes. >>
I agree. The guy was a jerk, and I love what you did!
MOO
TD
<< <i>the OP never seems to have mentioned to this customer what his best price
was and basically just haggles with the customer...
would it be so hard to say the lowest i will go.. is 155, end of story? come back if you
like that price. but it seems that was never said inviting the process of haggling
to continue. After all, the OP did drop it from 175 to 155... the customer might
have thought there was room for a bit more discussion. >>
Agree. I guess it's more fun playing games with a customer that quoting a firm bottom line price.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Such situations are common when dealing with the great unwashed. >>
In other words I counter frivolous with frivolous.
He starts out by saying that "(A name I know) out in (suburb) says he'll give me (let's say $750) for this. Can I get $800 fot it?"
I look at the coin and the sheets and say "Go ahead and sell it to him. I wouldn't pay any more than $750 for it."
He says "How about $775?"
I say "No."
He says "How about $775?"
I say "No."
He says "How about $775?"
I say "No."
He says "How about $775?"
I say "No, and I withdraw the offer of $750."
He says "OK, I'll take the $750."
I say "That offer was withdrawn."
He starts yelling about me renegging on the offer. I point out to him that in law when one person makes an offer and the other person makes a counteroffer, the person who made the original offer has the legal right to withdraw it. He keeps on complaining until he leaves.
Later the first dealer, who is a friend, calls to say that the guy came back in with the coin yelling and screaming about how I had treated him. The guy in the suburbs told him he no longer wanted the coin.
Some collectors are so cheap it boggles my mind.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
another negoitiating lesson learned.
<< <i>Such situations are common when dealing with the great unwashed.
As a professional who deals with the public, you have to expect things like that. I don't have an issue with your saying your bottom line price is $155, and the guy comes back four times and asks. That is part of doing business on the bourse.
If the first buyer and the second buyer were standing there at the same time, personally, I would have quoted the second buyer the same $155. I don't know what was gained by [perhaps unintentionally] insulting the first buyer, although one should not worry how the bourse slithering, unwashed hoi polloi feel or think. >>
+1
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Gotta love that story.
I sometimes tell a customer that the price
is contingent on the customer's attitude.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
Just one comment: The initial dialogue went something like this:
CUSTOMER: I'll give you $100 CASH!!
ME: The price TO YOU is $155.00 (I have myself just $5.00 of slight, wiggle room).
CUSTOMER: (offers me $5 more, you know the rest)
Take care,
Greg
Well on the third day the offer was $2,000, which I once again rejected. When we were told to come back a fourth day he blurted "4,500, take it or LEAVE IT (he was shouting).
So I took it
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
But I would not have told the first guy that. It doesn't serve any purpose other than to inform him that you actually were more negotiable than you claimed, and to tick him off. And while you may not care that you ticked him off, any customer who feels wronged may tell dozens of others that you were unfair, etc. (even if it's not true) and thus cost you future business.
Some adopt an initial stance of intimidation. Some provide extreme low-ball offers on anything offered to them. Some act as if customers are an interruption. Etc. Many are decent and helpful folks.
As in any field, the most successful dealers are those who use principles of good salemanship and good customer management. Honestly, can anyone imagine a representative of Stacks, Spinks, Heritage, etc. treating an (annoying) potential customer the way OP treated his? Clearly not. Such behavior would not have been tolerated by the representative's management. The challenge is to convert the annoying potential customer into the good actual customer. Anything else is just amatuerish.
Retail coin dealing must be a great business - you get to insult your potential customers and pick and choose to whom you will sell. Wow.
<< <i>Selling the coin to someone else for $145 was your right, of course.
But I would not have told the first guy that. It doesn't serve any purpose other than to inform him that you actually were more negotiable than you claimed, and to tick him off. And while you may not care that you ticked him off, any customer who feels wronged may tell dozens of others that you were unfair, etc. (even if it's not true) and thus cost you future business. >>
Spoken like a true businessman. Anything else is to satisfy an emotion.
I am however awed at the ability of my associate to mess with other lawyers. He never makes demands, and always gets the other side to make an offer, to which he always says it's too low...I had the pleasure of following various speaker phone exchanges over a 6 month period...Their first offer was 100K, Rejected, Lawyer then says what are you thinking,... 200K? Guy then says: No way you're gonna get 200K...Guy calls back a couple months later, Says John, Good news, I got authority for the 200K...Rejected...It repeated and was finally accepted at 725K...At court during a final settlement conference, the client instructed him to accept when their offer got to 625K...He went in and came back out and said now it's at $725K...This client actually got very mad.
<< <i>Selling the coin to someone else for $145 was your right, of course.
But I would not have told the first guy that. It doesn't serve any purpose other than to inform him that you actually were more negotiable than you claimed, and to tick him off. And while you may not care that you ticked him off, any customer who feels wronged may tell dozens of others that you were unfair, etc. (even if it's not true) and thus cost you future business. >>
<< <i>But I would not have told the first guy that. >>
I was just about to say the same thing. I agree that the "haggler" was annoying (almost insulting) and I agree you had every right to sell the coin to whomever you wish for how little you wish. But it appears that telling the "haggler" what you did was only to make yourself feel better at his expense.
reminds me of an incident where I was standing in a coin shop (1970 or 71), customer watches dealer pay 1.90 each for 20 Morgan silver dollars. Customer looks through the 20 silver dollars and picks one, asks dealer for the price and the dealer says $2.25, customer replies I'll give you 1.75, dealer says you just saw me pay 1.90 each, 2.25 is the bottom line customer then offers 1.95. Dealer grabs the dollar out of the customer's hand, looks at me and says would you like this silver dollar and I say yes, but I don't have that much money, he tosses the silver dollar to me, "it's yours for free". customer then offers me 2.00 and I tell him it's not for sale. The dealer then promptly tells the customer to get the he)) out of his store and don't come back.
I asked the dealer if he wanted his silver dollar back, he just laughs and says no it was money well spent if that idiot never comes back. I was 12 at the time and it felt like I hit the lottery. Still have that 1879-S Morgan dollar would probably grade a MS64 to MS66.
some customers deserve the abuse they get.
From a dealer's standpoint the situation was handled appropriately although you won't be winning customer service accolades. As for haggling, it's the custom in many other cultures and I appreciate a good haggling duel, but even then there is an unwritten protocol that should be followed.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>........but even then there is an unwritten protocol that should be followed. >>
Serious question---what is this protocol for haggling?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>But I would not have told the first guy that. >>
I was just about to say the same thing. I agree that the "haggler" was annoying (almost insulting) and I agree you had every right to sell the coin to whomever you wish for how little you wish. But it appears that telling the "haggler" what you did was only to make yourself feel better at his expense. >>
I think you hit the nail on the head! Insulting, bad behaviour, inconsiderate, loud, discourteous-all of which are completely unnecessary-you get more flies with honey than vinegar! If someone comes on with the hard sell or insists on getting something and is insulting about it, they receive the minimum from me. I only do what I have to but on the other hand if someone is pleasant, I'll go out of my way to accomodate them.
<< <i>
reminds me of an incident where I was standing in a coin shop (1970 or 71), customer watches dealer pay 1.90 each for 20 Morgan silver dollars. Customer looks through the 20 silver dollars and picks one, asks dealer for the price and the dealer says $2.25, customer replies I'll give you 1.75, dealer says you just saw me pay 1.90 each, 2.25 is the bottom line customer then offers 1.95. Dealer grabs the dollar out of the customer's hand, looks at me and says would you like this silver dollar and I say yes, but I don't have that much money, he tosses the silver dollar to me, "it's yours for free". customer then offers me 2.00 and I tell him it's not for sale. The dealer then promptly tells the customer to get the he)) out of his store and don't come back.
I asked the dealer if he wanted his silver dollar back, he just laughs and says no it was money well spent if that idiot never comes back. I was 12 at the time and it felt like I hit the lottery. Still have that 1879-S Morgan dollar would probably grade a MS64 to MS66.
some customers deserve the abuse they get. >>
I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I said: "You asked me what is the lowest price I would take for this. Are you calling me a liar?" put the coin back in the case and walked away.
TD
<< <i>
<< <i>........but even then there is an unwritten protocol that should be followed. >>
Serious question---what is this protocol for haggling? >>
Take a trip to Hong Kong, Turkey or anywhere that isn't North America, Japan or Western Europe. Watch others do it and learn from them.
In a nutshell, start with a low offer then work your way up. You can always raise your offer but you can't decrease it. Establish potential method of payment before making an offer. Don't make a buy offer unless you're willing to actually buy that item. If your offer is accepted then you need to honor it. Most importantly, it's all a game so don't take things personally. Don't get angry, upset or physical and refrain from personal attacks. Simple enough isn't it?
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>........but even then there is an unwritten protocol that should be followed. >>
Serious question---what is this protocol for haggling? >>
Take a trip to Hong Kong, Turkey or anywhere that isn't North America, Japan or Western Europe. Watch others do it and learn from them.
In a nutshell, start with a low offer then work your way up. You can always raise your offer but you can't decrease it. Establish potential method of payment before making an offer. Don't make a buy offer unless you're willing to actually buy that item. If your offer is accepted then you need to honor it. Most importantly, it's all a game so don't take things personally. Don't get angry, upset or physical and refrain from personal attacks. Simple enough isn't it? >>
Thanks. Makes sense. The same rules should apply to buying from a coin dealer here. Since I don't like to haggle, I usually just ask the dealer for his best price and then either play or pass.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>........but even then there is an unwritten protocol that should be followed. >>
Serious question---what is this protocol for haggling? >>
Take a trip to Hong Kong, Turkey or anywhere that isn't North America, Japan or Western Europe. Watch others do it and learn from them.
In a nutshell, start with a low offer then work your way up. You can always raise your offer but you can't decrease it. Establish potential method of payment before making an offer. Don't make a buy offer unless you're willing to actually buy that item. If your offer is accepted then you need to honor it. Most importantly, it's all a game so don't take things personally. Don't get angry, upset or physical and refrain from personal attacks. Simple enough isn't it? >>
Longacre has negotiated prices in the Grand Bazaar in Istanbul, and various Markets around Beijing. Each has its high points and low points. It gets a little frustrating when it took me about 30 minutes to buy a chess set in China that cost me about $10.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>........but even then there is an unwritten protocol that should be followed. >>
Serious question---what is this protocol for haggling? >>
Take a trip to Hong Kong, Turkey or anywhere that isn't North America, Japan or Western Europe. Watch others do it and learn from them.
In a nutshell, start with a low offer then work your way up. You can always raise your offer but you can't decrease it. Establish potential method of payment before making an offer. Don't make a buy offer unless you're willing to actually buy that item. If your offer is accepted then you need to honor it. Most importantly, it's all a game so don't take things personally. Don't get angry, upset or physical and refrain from personal attacks. Simple enough isn't it? >>
Thanks. Makes sense. The same rules should apply to buying from a coin dealer here. Since I don't like to haggle, I usually just ask the dealer for his best price and then either play or pass. >>
Nothing wrong with that!
TD
FWIW, I tried the "best price" thing, and what I have found out is that it paints you in a corner if it is used as a blanket. On items that are bullion-related or desirable coins (like the one I described), it was my mistake by just not quoting the guy $150.00 and saying that was my best price. What I have found that on "ka-ka" you have to be more flexible. If someone is at my table wanting to buy all of my modern, clad proof singles - the ball game changes a bit.
Ticking the guy off was totally intentional, and even to this day I could care less if he told 1,000 people. That's because if I have the right coins at the right price for them, they could care less.