Real and Possible population of 1952 Mantle
Brianruns10
Posts: 227 ✭✭
Two part question here
1) What are some estimates for extant examples of the 52 Mantle?
2) Any theories as to the number that may exist unknown in collections? What I mean is, just as there are believed to be more T206 Wagners, long held in private collections whose owners would never part with them, is it equally plausible that more Mantles, possibly very nice ones at that, likewise exist in the collections of their original owners, baby boomers who would never sell in their lifetime, and for reasons of personal safety, not publicly reveal their holdings?
On the one hand, it's a thrilling prospect that more are waiting to be revealed, but as the older collectors pass on, and their collections are sold, could the increase in Mantles cause the price to go down...or is the demand high enough that the cards would simply be absorbed into the market with no impact?
BR
1) What are some estimates for extant examples of the 52 Mantle?
2) Any theories as to the number that may exist unknown in collections? What I mean is, just as there are believed to be more T206 Wagners, long held in private collections whose owners would never part with them, is it equally plausible that more Mantles, possibly very nice ones at that, likewise exist in the collections of their original owners, baby boomers who would never sell in their lifetime, and for reasons of personal safety, not publicly reveal their holdings?
On the one hand, it's a thrilling prospect that more are waiting to be revealed, but as the older collectors pass on, and their collections are sold, could the increase in Mantles cause the price to go down...or is the demand high enough that the cards would simply be absorbed into the market with no impact?
BR
0
Comments
This has been the card in the hobby since I started collecting in early 1985. With the advent of card grading in the last 10 to 15 years the vast majority I would suspect have surfaced.
This is not to suggest there are not a few out there, but with the world we live in today with information so readily available on the internet, I would suspect those that have the cards have been informed of their value and the ability to get them graded and increase that number in many cases.
To this day there has never been a Wagner find of some hidden collection loaded with the cards. As values sky rocketed in the 80's and sellers called big time buyers like Allen Rosen and caughed up their cards left and right.
I think the finds have happened and the only thing I would suspect hurt Mantle values is a very prolonged economic slump which can not be ruled out. The saving grace is that globally high net worth investors love hard assets of US icons.
I do not own a single Mantle card and have no skin in the game but my belief is they are not going down in high grade.
<< <i>To this day there has never been a Wagner find of some hidden collection loaded with the cards. >>
We won't mention the two "new" Wagners that have both come to market in the past 28 months...
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
<< <i>I am willing to bet there are not a lot of hidden Mantle's left. >>
A friend of mines father has three '52 Mantles from when he was a kid, that have never hit the market. He keeps them in a safety deposit box at his bank, he knows from the 80's boom they are worth a lot, but he couldn't care less about the monetary value and has no intention of moving them.
If they are a 6 or less it means nothing.
Here are the pops of the 52 Mantle. I highly doubt there are many NM-MT or higher cards floating around. I could be wrong but I just doubt they exist. So many people do not realize how hard it is to find NM-MT or higher cards in general of pack driven cards. There were no factory sets in 1952.
311 Mickey Mantle 43 6 141 8 8 107 7 7 132 5 4 139 11 5 147 4 1 101 2 7 68 3 8 30 2 2 7 3 1,008
I guess you can't read.
Increasing the population of a card from 58 to 60 on a percentage basis I will contest is large, but the demand for this card is drastically higher then 60 cards.
It will take a float of much higher then 60 cards to ever impact the price of a Wagner.
<< <i>"To this day there has never been a Wagner find of some hidden collection loaded with the cards".
I guess you can't read.
Increasing the population of a card from 58 to 60 on a percentage basis I will contest is large, but the demand for this card is drastically higher then 60 cards.
It will take a float of much higher then 60 cards to ever impact the price of a Wagner. >>
I can read. Sometimes, you talk out of your azz about things that you don't really know about. Stick to wrasslin' cards.
This was directed to him.
He must have went back and read.
<< <i>
<< <i>"To this day there has never been a Wagner find of some hidden collection loaded with the cards".
I guess you can't read.
Increasing the population of a card from 58 to 60 on a percentage basis I will contest is large, but the demand for this card is drastically higher then 60 cards.
It will take a float of much higher then 60 cards to ever impact the price of a Wagner. >>
I can read. Sometimes, you talk out of your azz about things that you don't really know about. Stick to wrasslin' cards. >>
Scott, I think Dbag was talking to me, but I dropped out of this because I know it is a waste of time.
Always looking for Mantle cards such as Stahl Meyer, 1954 Dan Dee, 1959 Bazooka, 1960 Post, 1952 Star Cal Decal, 1952 Tip Top Bread Labels, 1953-54 Briggs Meat, and other Topps, Bowman, and oddball Mantles.
Lastly, your statement "To this day there has never been a Wagner find of some hidden collection loaded with the cards." is a flaw in itself.....this is the very reason this card is so valuable.....it's rare(I know, not the rarest). The two recently found do increase the population but in this case, demand is so high, it doesn't effect it. That should answer the OP's question there.
So considering demand far outweighs supply, when new cards hit the market in any condition, you wont see significant price drops. The market will peacefully absorb them.
Saying there has never been a significant find of a Wagner in a collection to me indicates the card is incredibly rare and that no one has stumbled upon a large number of them.
If you watch or read the stories from Rosen in 1986 he bought a collection from a man with 75+ high condition Mantle's at once. This is a significant find to me and represents more cards then even exist of Wagner.
There is no doubt that there are many more Mantle's then the 1000 or so graded by PSA and many more graded by other companies.
But I do believe with in the case of PSA only 4% of the cards graded NM-MT or higher there is not some hidden stash of these. Will someone stumble across some in VG to EX perhaps but if so I really see no affect on the price.
<< <i>
<< <i>"To this day there has never been a Wagner find of some hidden collection loaded with the cards".
I guess you can't read.
Increasing the population of a card from 58 to 60 on a percentage basis I will contest is large, but the demand for this card is drastically higher then 60 cards.
It will take a float of much higher then 60 cards to ever impact the price of a Wagner. >>
I can read. Sometimes, you talk out of your azz about things that you don't really know about. Stick to wrasslin' cards. >>
I was thinking the same thing.
And everything has to do with money.
Also, it seems that the target of his ramblings is moving. Somebody says he knows of three, his response is if they arent PSA whatever, they dont count.
THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD IS HOW MANY MORE ARE OUT THERE!!! Not how many meet your moving target requirements
At the end of the day when you are dealing with a piece of cardboard that cost thousands of dollars it is all about money at that point.
A $2 card is bought for the heck of it, not a Mantle rookie.
The primary queston was is there a large number of Mantle's in private collections that do not intend to be sold and are not claimed in the marketplace and perhaps a large number in strong condition.
My belief is no. With the rampant number of fakes cards that are brought up on these boards a large number of older cards are getting graded not only to potentially increase the sale price but to prove they are real.
If someone thinks that after this mean years of collectors being in hot pursuit of this card that there is a vast vault of clean Mantle's somewhere, explain how in this day of instant information they have slipped by.
Latest Auction Prices for: PSA 6 - Average Price: $19,758.33
How many wrasslin cards could you buy for "nothing"
I don't consider a 6 a super high end card in general. I actually thought in Mantle's case they sold for a littler more then that.
I saw a centered 7 I believe sell for $40k recently and I have said in other threads I think it would blow people's mind how much a PSA 9 or the holy grail a 10 would sell for.
I just don't think at this point there is some massive hidden stash. The video referenced that Muggy Man posted looked like a large number of older cards. I did not watch the entire thing but it did not look to me like the colection had super high dollar cards. There is no doubt there are a lot of collectors out there with old cards that had never been graded but we are talking about a 52 Topps Mantle here. The word is out on this card and any person can flip on the computer and find an idea what it is worth. The reason large collections were bought so cheap years ago was information was not as easy to find and as prices rose so did supply. If there was some endless supply of 52 Mantle's the prices would have peaked a while ago and fallen.
I still think a 52 Mantle is a solid investment in almost any condition.
linky dinky
Either way, the seller hasn't received any feedback for that Mickey card.
brian
I was seriously considering in 1987 the purchase of a 1952 Mantle Topps RC. I had actually looked at a couple of them, but neither of them were appealing enough to me. Looking back at it, they would have probably good enough to be a in a PSA 5 or 6 slab. That is another one of my big regrets on my big long regrets list. lol
Brian
Grading has existed for 20 years. The card has been in the market for 60 years. Pops on grades 7-9 are 68, 30, and 3 (not counting a few half pointers), plus a couple of 10's. So 100 or so in 20 years.
Anyway, simple supply and demand rules here. Demand has always been great for this card, even though its supply is relatively plentiful for what it is, a double print 52 high number several thousand of which were destroyed before ever reaching the market. Demand 'may' decline due to demographics, however, it's entirely possible demand could increase if the hobby continues to consolidate and people have less enthusiasm for grading commons. The next generation after the boomers aren't going to give a flip about commons, however, the 'name' players will always endure. I'm a great example.......I don't give a flip about 33 Goudey commons, but if someone mentions a 33 Goudey Ruth: talk to me.
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>The primary queston was is there a large number of Mantle's in private collections that do not intend to be sold and are not claimed in the marketplace and perhaps a large number in strong condition.
My belief is no. >>
My uncle has several 51B and 52T Mantles that have been stashed in a safety deposit box for at least 20 years. They won't see the light of day until his kids decide to sell them after he passes away. This could be an exception rather than the norm but I'm pretty sure there are many others in the same position.
Aside from 52 topps hi numbers
I know someone who has a 52 Mantle in probally near mint condition.. it's stored away and probally won't see the light of day till he passes..
There out there..
I find the prospect of these cards, unknown because they have remained in the hands of those who originally obtained them, who would never part with them for their sentimental value, yet knowing they ARE valuable, keep them safely locked away, like stown's uncle, in safes and deposit boxes.
I find these possibilities exciting. The thrill of undiscovered rarities.
But the Mantle card also has front differences, common to whether the stitching runs right or left. The differences are most noticeable in whether the line of stars above his name is wavy or straight, whether the e in the autograph goes upward or is cut off, and whether the tops of the black box frame around his picture extend slightly into the white border or not. These differences are consistent depending on which way the stitching goes.
My question is whether there is likely to be more of one version or the other based on how the printing process on the double prints worked ( I am not aware of any front differences on the Robinson or Thompson)
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al