1099 clause in Healthcare Bill?
akuracy503
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I first heard about the clause in the Healthcare Bill from the Precious Metals forum.
Seems beginning in 2012 each individual transactions over $600 (sale) will require a 1099 be processed.
Can anyone elaborate on the affects of our ebay/paypal transactions for the sale of cards?
I am still unclear if this bill only affects "businesses" versus "non-business" sales.
Some call it a conspiracy to track who owns what assets for when SHTF, some call it more $pending money$ for the government.
Seems beginning in 2012 each individual transactions over $600 (sale) will require a 1099 be processed.
Can anyone elaborate on the affects of our ebay/paypal transactions for the sale of cards?
I am still unclear if this bill only affects "businesses" versus "non-business" sales.
Some call it a conspiracy to track who owns what assets for when SHTF, some call it more $pending money$ for the government.
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If you run your card business like a business, and you sell to other dealers, then you'd likely have to file a 1099. If you operate as a "hobby" you should be fine. Seems sentiment is to repeal this clause anyway, so it is an issue likely to go away before implementation in 2012.
<< <i>It's for business to business transactions.
If you run your card business like a business, and you sell to other dealers, then you'd likely have to file a 1099. If you operate as a "hobby" you should be fine. Seems sentiment is to repeal this clause anyway, so it is an issue likely to go away before implementation in 2012. >>
It's much worse than that.
As an example, say you or any collector goes into a card shop and sells the shop owner some cards. If that shop owner purchases $600 or more worth of cards from you in any one year, they must issue you a 1099. That means you must provide them your social security number each time. Also, the $600 threshhold is cumulative. It doesn't have to be one transaction of $600. It could be six $100 transactions, twelve $50 transactions, etc. It's $600 total in any year.
This clause is probably the one item that has the best chance of being cancelled, as plenty of congressional members, the IRS, and the President, support it's repeal. That being said, it's still not a given that it will be repealed.
Steve
What's a 1099?
One of the Army units I served in the late 90s.
Currently collecting 1934 Butterfinger, 1969 Nabisco, 1991 Topps Desert Shield (in PSA 9 or 10), and 1990 Donruss Learning Series (in PSA 10).
The claim that the government will know who has wealth when the SHTF and then use that wealth via "emergency patriotic seizure" or whatever euphemism they come up with might have a point.
All a 1099 indicates was a transaction, right? That could have been just shifting money from one account to another or it could have involved goods. I once tried to deposit $11,000 cash at a bank and they issue me an IRS form (something like a 1099). I told them this money is income from a small business in which I report everything anyway. Its rental income in this case--the money is documented on the rental agreement too. I did not want extra paper work, so I asked if its OK just to do $9,500 and foget the extra paper work. That was fine with them.
It seems like $10,000 is a magic number. A coin shop would not sell my friend more than $10K worth of gold on any one day probably for similar sentiments. When you travel internationally, you must notify the airport security if you have $10K or more in monetary instruments that include, gold, silver, currency, or stocks.
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The thought is that if you get a form that the IRS is going to have as well, you are a lot more likely to report it on your tax return and pay taxes on it. So if you are selling a lot of stuff and using Paypal, you need to keep track of what you are selling and how much you paid for those items to begin with. If you sell 20,000 worth of stuff using Paypal, but it cost you 30,000, you don't have any income (you have a loss). But if you do not have the records to support it, Uncle Sam can come knocking at your door. You need to keep good records or you are at risk.
The 10,000 mentioned in some of the replies is along the lines of cash transactions. If you have a cash transaction of 10,000 or more, the bank or merchant is required to file a report with the IRS. This is to combat money laundering.
<< <i>It seems like $10,000 is a magic number. A coin shop would not sell my friend more than $10K worth of gold on any one day probably for similar sentiments. When you travel internationally, you must notify the airport security if you have $10K or more in monetary instruments that include, gold, silver, currency, or stocks. >>
$10K has always been the magic number in Vegas. In other words, if you tried to cash in for more than $10K, you had to file out IRS paper work. This has been the case for at least 15 years.
For gold, I believe (but could be mistaken) that if a dealer buys more than $600 from one individual, they have to report all transactions via 1099.
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The "magic number" in Vegas or any other legal gaming venue in the U.S. refers to a Currency Transaction Report, it has its own form #, something like a 5456, but not a 1099. It is true that if you cash in more than $10k in any one casino business day (business day is not always midnight to midnight) you will have to complete a CTRC, the C stands for Casino. Oddly or not, some Indian gaming facilities have certain exemptions to this. The original objective here was to try and catch money launderers, i.e. drug dealers. You can learn more about CTRs, CTRCs and the infamous (you never want this one) SCTRC, which is the Suspicious Currency Transaction Report Casino. Go to IRS.gov and all you'd ever want to know about this is there in all its glory. If you go to your local bank and make a transaction >$10k, you just get a CTR filled out, which is no big deal.
Now, the CTR has nothing to do with taxes, although it will be report as a "transaction" to the great computer, it does not refer to income, which is the basis of taxation. I know gamblers that have dozens of these things filled out. The prudent player would keep in mind the threshold of >$10k.
The above should not be confused with a casino issuing a 1099-G, which is issued when you win a certain amount on a slot machine, keno, etc, Table games, such as craps and blackjack do not have 1099-Gs issued. The 1099G (G for Gaming), will indeed get matched up to your SSN at the great computer in Martinsburg, WV and sooner or later Uncle is gonna want his slice of that casino win. It may take a few years, but you will not escape once you have provided your SSN. Not likely the casino is gonna pay your winnings if you absolutely refuse to provide necessary data to fill out the 1099-G. If memory serves, I think the threshold for a 1099G is $1.2k win on a slot machine, different for keno...but then again, the odds of winning keno are beyond disgusting, why people play is a mystery to me.
FinCEN is another wonderful unit to stay waaaay, way away from. FinCEN stands for Financial Criminal Enforcement...'nuff said. These are the guys with badges and guns who work for the IRS...they will take you away.
The $1200 threshold on casino winnings applies to all games, but for table games, it only matters if you're up $1200 or more when you cash out. If you start with a bankroll of $5K and build it up to $10K, then lose $4K to come down to $6K and then cash out, you're net win is $1K and thus, you would not have to fill out a 1099-G. Slots are different because the payout is a single event. Craps, roulette, and blackjack are continuous as long as you remain seated.
Net gambling losses for a calendar year (if you're in the red for the full year) are not deductible (and only $3K of stock losses are deductible, making the stock market exactly like Vegas in more ways than one) from your 1040, but short-term losses that offset long-term winnings (within a single calendar year) are in effect deductible, because they reduce the total amount of taxable winnings for the year (assuming you're in the black for the year). If you win $10K on one visit and lose $3K the next, make sure you get receipts to prove you lost that $3K and your taxable winnings will stand at $7K.
The non-casino CTR is generally not a big deal, but what DeutscherGeist did at the bank definitely got a SAR filed. That's suspicious activity report, which is different than and independent from a CTR. The chance anything bad will come of it is virtually zero, but technically, if he deposited the $9500 and then went back to deposit the last $1500 the following day (or went to a different bank - not a different branch, but a different bank - on the same day) that's considered "structuring" by the government, and it's technically illegal. But you'd have to either be an egregious repeat offender or have attracted scrutiny from authorities for some other reason before any action will be taken against you. In other words, if you're a known drug dealer or mafia kingpin and cops are always on your tail, don't be stupid by depositing a total of $11K in cash at several different banks in a single day. There's a great thread (well over 200 pages) at fatwallet.com discussing how you can order dollar coins from the U.S. mint to get cash back rewards on your credit card, and then take the coins to the bank to deposit them and pay off the credit card bill. Much of that thread covers everything I've talked about in this paragraph, since the coins are considered cash, and some crazy people have hauled in over $1M in dollar coins over a period of time.
<< <i>The $1200 threshold on casino winnings applies to all games, but for table games, it only matters if you're up $1200 or more when you cash out. If you start with a bankroll of $5K and build it up to $10K, then lose $4K to come down to $6K and then cash out, you're net win is $1K and thus, you would not have to fill out a 1099-G. Slots are different because the payout is a single event. Craps, roulette, and blackjack are continuous as long as you remain seated. >>
Do what now? I've walked away from many tables up $1,200 (net) and never, ever was required to fill out any paper work.
<< <i>My friend who is a dentist already does this 1099 thing with his suppliers. This does not appear to be anything groundbreaking.
The claim that the government will know who has wealth when the SHTF and then use that wealth via "emergency patriotic seizure" or whatever euphemism they come up with might have a point.
All a 1099 indicates was a transaction, right? That could have been just shifting money from one account to another or it could have involved goods. I once tried to deposit $11,000 cash at a bank and they issue me an IRS form (something like a 1099). I told them this money is income from a small business in which I report everything anyway. Its rental income in this case--the money is documented on the rental agreement too. I did not want extra paper work, so I asked if its OK just to do $9,500 and foget the extra paper work. That was fine with them.
It seems like $10,000 is a magic number. A coin shop would not sell my friend more than $10K worth of gold on any one day probably for similar sentiments. When you travel internationally, you must notify the airport security if you have $10K or more in monetary instruments that include, gold, silver, currency, or stocks. >>
Just so you know you actually did yourself more harm than good by doing that. It's called structuring. By dropping your deposit below to under $10,000 you went from having a Currency Transaction Report (CTR) filed to having a Suspicious Activity Report filed. A CTR is no big deal. All it does is let the IRS know when a large cash deposit is made so that they can track possible money laundering. If you have nothing to hide it shouldn't be a big deal. By structuring your deposit to under $10,000 and having a SAR filed (which the bank cannot legally tell you about) you are drawing MUCH MORE attention to yourself.
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<< <i>Do what now? I've walked away from many tables up $1,200 (net) and never, ever was required to fill out any paper work. >>
It's not from one table to another. It's for the entire "visit" or "session," however that is determined.
We're you up more than $1200 when you cashed out your chips?
<< <i>
<< <i>Do what now? I've walked away from many tables up $1,200 (net) and never, ever was required to fill out any paper work. >>
It's not from one table to another. It's for the entire "visit" or "session," however that is determined.
We're you up more than $1200 when you cashed out your chips? >>
Many, many, many times.
And before anyone says something: I've lost that and then some just as many, if not more, times.
Not to challenge Crazymind, but, there is NO 1099 for any table game, i.e. bj, craps, or roulette. Matters not your bankroll, nor what you win, pick up 10 purples or 10 yellows...HOWEVER, It does matter what you take to the cage. There is a moral obligation to include your win on your 1040 when filing next year...these wins can only be offset by losses, and you really need to have well documented losses. Most casinos will provide you an end of year summary for this purpose...so I'm told.
As for what you take to the cage, it is in fact called "structuring" if you in any way attempt to cash under $10k to avoid the CTR. Again, the CTR is no big deal, it simply shows a currency transaction, no more, no less. Again, the prudent gambler will use common sense if you play at this level.
Not sure how that would work. The mint won't sell the coins for $1.00...they are like ~$1.25 each. No card card gets 25% monthly.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>What's a 1099?
One of the Army units I served in the late 90s.
Oh yea , on a side note , this is just the nose of the camel into the tent. see lines below. --- Sonny
<< <i>SAR is correct...I stated Suspicious Currency Transaction Report, which is not correct. Same end result. The SAR will probably generate a visit from FinCEN.
Not to challenge Crazymind, but, there is NO 1099 for any table game, i.e. bj, craps, or roulette. Matters not your bankroll, nor what you win, pick up 10 purples or 10 yellows...HOWEVER, It does matter what you take to the cage. There is a moral obligation to include your win on your 1040 when filing next year...these wins can only be offset by losses, and you really need to have well documented losses. Most casinos will provide you an end of year summary for this purpose...so I'm told.
As for what you take to the cage, it is in fact called "structuring" if you in any way attempt to cash under $10k to avoid the CTR. Again, the CTR is no big deal, it simply shows a currency transaction, no more, no less. Again, the prudent gambler will use common sense if you play at this level. >>
I've always been under the impression that if you take $1200+ more to the cage to cash out than you converted into chips when you started will require IRS reporting. You seem to have much more first-hand experienced than me, so I'll take your word for it.
As for the SAR, I wouldn't worry about it. The agencies that investigate this type of thing have limited resources and you really have to do something big to attract their attention. They have to sort through thousands upon thousands of new reports each week.
There was a woman who posted in the fatwallet thread who was questioned by the FBI in the presence of a bank manager, after the manager had reported suspicious activity on her accounts. As soon as the feds realized what was going on, they lost interest (because they knew nothing illegal was going on) while the woman (the bank's customer) basically got berated by the bank manager for dumping so many coins on them. It's all in that thread on fatwallet.
<< <i>"There's a great thread (well over 200 pages) at fatwallet.com discussing how you can order dollar coins from the U.S. mint to get cash back rewards on your credit card, and then take the coins to the bank to deposit them and pay off the credit card bill."
Not sure how that would work. The mint won't sell the coins for $1.00...they are like ~$1.25 each. No card card gets 25% monthly. >>
Uhhhhh, they charge $1 per coin (face value) with free shipping. Maybe you should read the first few posts in that thread so that you might actually understand it before making inane comments about how it's not possible.
If you take $ten thousand and one dollars to the cage, you're gonna get a CTRC filled out. Again, this ain't no big deal, only the SAR is a big deal.
If you openly and with obvious purpose structure your cash outs, that is ILLEGAL, you don't really want to get caught doing that. Structuring is cashing out in such a fashion that you don't plop over $10k at the cage window at one time. Example...you win $15k, you cash $9k then $6k, not cool. And, as the IRS website will explain, the timeframe is the "business day" for the casino, not 8AM to 8PM, it is whatever their business day format is, could be 10AM to 10PM. If you gamble black and purple, you should know this.
Go to IRS.gov and search CTR and CTRC and 1099G...this willl end the confusion. Maybe googling will be just as easy. You may as well google SAR, "structuring" and FinCEN.
So, I must have had an SAR filled out a few years ago then without me knowing about it. That was just one time. It was all good money, from rental income, so all I have to do is be prepared to answer questions if they come up at all. All that income is reported and documented anyway, so no big deal. I deposit monthly now as soon as I get the rental money at the beginning of every month.
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<< <i>I guess I learned something.
So, I must have had an SAR filled out a few years ago then without me knowing about it. That was just one time. It was all good money, from rental income, so all I have to do is be prepared to answer questions if they come up at all. All that income is reported and documented anyway, so no big deal. I deposit monthly now as soon as I get the rental money at the beginning of every month. >>
It's actually against federal regulations to let the customer know that a SAR is being filed. It won't be a big deal, though. Just realize that a CTR is nothing at all and would be less of a headache if the powers that be decide to follow up on the SAR (which they probably won't).
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'61 Topps Roy Campanella in PSA 5-7
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<< <i>I've always been under the impression that if you take $1200+ more to the cage to cash out than you converted into chips when you started will require IRS reporting. You seem to have much more first-hand experienced than me, so I'll take your word for it. >>
I rarely ever say something is an undeniable fact but in this case, I will. Prior to Obamacare, if you started with $1, won $1,201, and took $1,202 in chips to the cage for cash, you will not be required to fill out any paperwork.
However with the new bill, things may be different. Unlike many of our represenatives, I've read the bill numerous times and still don't have a clue.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
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Although not as financially beneficial, I've always wondered about going in to Best Buy, buying a $50 gift card, use your rewards cards for points, get back in line, buy another $50 gift card and pay for it with the first gift card. Rinse and repeat.
<< <i>
<< <i>"There's a great thread (well over 200 pages) at fatwallet.com discussing how you can order dollar coins from the U.S. mint to get cash back rewards on your credit card, and then take the coins to the bank to deposit them and pay off the credit card bill."
Not sure how that would work. The mint won't sell the coins for $1.00...they are like ~$1.25 each. No card card gets 25% monthly. >>
Uhhhhh, they charge $1 per coin (face value) with free shipping. Maybe you should read the first few posts in that thread so that you might actually understand it before making inane comments about how it's not possible. >>
If you are a federal bank you can exchange money with them at face value. If me or you buy $1 coins from the mint they are not $1.
http://www.usmint.gov/
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
A slot win >$1.2k, a keno win >$1.5k and poker winnings >$5k. All this can easily be researched by going to www.irs.gov and using the search box for "gambling winnings", or W2-G.
The cage transaction an individual does under $10k, has no bearing whatsoever on any paperwork relating to the IRS. If you win an amount stated above, the casino will (by Federal Law) process a W2-G on you and it will be reported to the IRS for inclusion on the following year's numbers. No doubt they will reduce your win by "x" for Federal Taxes, to ensure Uncle gets his bite when you file.
Forget about cashing less than $1.2k at the cage...I've cashed several thousand on more than one occasion at the Mirage and not a peep of a problem, they really don't care. Now if I had pushed across more than $10k, it wouldh've been CTRC time.
Furthermore, any Currency Transaction Report is no big deal...you worry when you get a Suspcious Activity Report filed on you, that one is for real. I plan to soon pay off the balance of my home mortgage in the next few months. My balance right now is about $15k...yup, I'm gonna have a CTR filled out on me, no big deal. For those who want more of an in-depth view of all this, google The Bank Secrecy Act.
<< <i>If you are a federal bank you can exchange money with them at face value. If me or you buy $1 coins from the mint they are not $1.
http://www.usmint.gov/ >>
You might very well be the most dense person I've ever encountered on a non-political internet forum. Here, I'll do the work for you:
FAT WALLET THREAD
U.S. Mint Catalog $1 Direct Ship Program
<< <i>
<< <i>If you are a federal bank you can exchange money with them at face value. If me or you buy $1 coins from the mint they are not $1.
http://www.usmint.gov/ >>
You might very well be the most dense person I've ever encountered on a non-political internet forum. Here, I'll do the work for you:
FAT WALLET THREAD
>>
Fixed link to Mint
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
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<< <i>Fixed link to Mint >>
Thanks, but I got it.
And just so you all know, as I have had to fill out the IRS winnings form (They will compare your info you put down with your Drivers license, let me tell you they take this VERY Seriously) several times at several casinos, from KENO, Poker and Sports Book Gambling, for sums of $2K-10K. They will all ask if you want witholding done, I always say yes, they take I believe it is 30%, maybe wrong on percentage, but anyway they will withold. Then make sure that year you pick up every scratched Lottery ticket you see the entire year (One year I paid the guy at the local Stop N Save to pick them out of the trash out front, I had 7K in tickets in like 3 weeks), and make another trip to Vegas and Find reciepts!!!!
I have had as much as 10K winnings in a year and have offset about 95% of them with documentable losses
YeeHah
Neil