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This is why Ebay auctions are drying up

So I put a 1967 Topps #347 Grady Hatton PSA 9 MINT on Ebay a week ago. I gets 100 hits which tells me there is a lot interest but when the hammer fell tonight it sold for under $17. Another 1967 in PSA 9, John Bateman, sold for under $16. The 1964 Kaline PSA 9 I put out with a reserve of $375 (SMR=$475) sold for $385. Without the reserve it probably would have sold for a lot less.

Therefore, the answer as to why sellers are not putting nice cards out for open auction on Ebay is that they can take a bath in this economy. The ratio of BIN listings to open auction listings is about 6 to 1. I will put out a few more for next week but I, like many others, may just put Ebay on hold for a while. I don't mind sellers getting a nice deal now and then on the cards I sell because as a buyer I like it when I win a card at less than I expected to. But when nice PSA 9 mint cards from popular years such as 1967 sell this low, I've got to pause and rethink.

Or is it just that the demand is not there anymore because the populations of a lot of these cards is growing? What do you think? Anybody having similar selling experiences?

Comments

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,757 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Definitely a risk to put stuff up in a regular auction format, but on the other hand, I've seen prices go higher for auctions than in the BIN format where unless you have something that is in high demand, you should be ready to wait a while for a sale.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • RonBurgundyRonBurgundy Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
    You pretty much have to put commons on fixed price listings now unless you're doing a massive set break. High grade stars and low pops seem to sell fine, at least in line with the overall drop in the market in the last 2-3 years.

    I believe the drop in prices is 60% attributable to the economy, 20% to the idiocy of Ebay, 20% to the pops increasing on commons. They will drive BIN sellers away eventually too - right now, fees are about 13% (incl. the listing fee) for anything under $100. Take out another 3% for paypal, that's 16%. Deduct another 3% if you offer free shipping. Insanity. I'm evaluating where I want to be a year from now in terms of selling stuff, including being out of it entirely.

    However, I do think the economy is improving, though slowly. I've listed 36 items on my modest store since Friday and have already sold 8. Strongest sales in several months.
    Ron Burgundy

    Buying Vintage, all sports.
    Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    Rich, while I know you are disappointed in your final sale price, you actually aren't too far off from VCP...here is the Grady Hatton...

    Latest Auction Prices for: PSA 9 - Average Price: $21.66
    12/16/10 eBay Auction | Image dslsports e***e 1 $24.99
    11/14/10 eBay Auction | Image probstein123 r***c 4 $20.50
    10/9/10 eBay Auction | Image lbpmd t***e 2 $31.45
    8/22/10 eBay Auction | Image wcsports1 g***n 1 $9.99
    8/19/10 eBay Auction | Image senileman b***e 5 $17.50
    5/23/10 eBay Image kappercards 5***5 5 $16.16
    4/28/10 eBay Image prewarcardcollector a***g 6 $77.00
    3/11/10 eBay Image andiehaley 5***5 2 $19.38

    With the exception of one sale from Prewarcardcollector, who has an insane following, your price fell right in line with the rest of them....
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    Here is the Bateman....

    Latest Auction Prices for: PSA 9 - Average Price: $21.49
    11/6/10 eBay Auction | Image wcsports1 r***c 2 $12.51
    10/20/10 eBay Listing | Image tripleplayvintage t***e BIN $30.00
    8/22/10 eBay Auction | Image cookiemonster501 5***5 4 $15.42
    8/18/10 eBay Auction | Image senileman s***o 6 $22.00
    5/16/10 eBay Image kappercards a***a 3 $17.50
    4/28/10 eBay Image prewarcardcollector a***g 4 $27.56
    1/28/10 eBay Image higradecards10 m***m 1 $24.99

    And here is the Al Kaline....
    Latest Auction Prices for: PSA 9 - Average Price: $370.16
    11/22/10 eBay Auction | Image seaandsun e***h 10 $244.50
    11/7/10 eBay Auction | Image bnolff413d d***a 13 $260.00
    9/16/10 eBay Auction | Image smoo7th 3***f 9 $335.00
    8/22/10 Legacy Sports Auction | Image 7 $510.00
    7/27/10 eBay Auction | Image wchappell h***i 11 $500.00
    6/5/10 eBay Image dgofwinter m***m 25 $290.78
    5/9/10 eBay Image sundiegocollectibles s***r BIN $465.00
    ces for: PSA 9 - Average Price: $370.16

    You actually brought $15 higher than VCP average, and $100 higher than the last two recorded sales......

    Like I said, I know you are disappointed, but your sales don't actually look bad at all, at least according to VCP....
  • I would have put that Kaline up with a higher buy it now/best offer scenario and you would have done much better.
  • I learned my lesson using reserves. One week i listed a card with a reserve of 3000. It ended at $1800. The next week i listed the exact same card with NO RESERVE and it sold for $3800. Go figure.
  • Mickey71Mickey71 Posts: 4,261 ✭✭✭✭
    99% of all commons will still be commons. It sounds like something Yogi would say. I do it also; but.....grading companies did not come about to grade 1967 Grady Hattons'. This is something everyone is going to have to face including the grading companies. I'm alot pickier with what I submit than in the past. Most 1971's in an 8 are not worth more than grading fees///1970's are not worth grading fees///1969's have fallen terribly////1968's were never rare at all even in 9's let alone 8's....and 1972's aren't worth grading fees in 8's. The commons in the end will be common. High grade, properly graded stars will be the way to go.

    Mickey71
  • chaz43chaz43 Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭


    << <i>So I put a 1967 Topps #347 Grady Hatton PSA 9 MINT on Ebay a week ago. I gets 100 hits which tells me there is a lot interest but when the hammer fell tonight it sold for under $17. Another 1967 in PSA 9, John Bateman, sold for under $16. The 1964 Kaline PSA 9 I put out with a reserve of $375 (SMR=$475) sold for $385. Without the reserve it probably would have sold for a lot less.

    Therefore, the answer as to why sellers are not putting nice cards out for open auction on Ebay is that they can take a bath in this economy. The ratio of BIN listings to open auction listings is about 6 to 1. I will put out a few more for next week but I, like many others, may just put Ebay on hold for a while. I don't mind sellers getting a nice deal now and then on the cards I sell because as a buyer I like it when I win a card at less than I expected to. But when nice PSA 9 mint cards from popular years such as 1967 sell this low, I've got to pause and rethink.

    Or is it just that the demand is not there anymore because the populations of a lot of these cards is growing? What do you think? Anybody having similar selling experiences? >>



    You are learning a hard lesson my friend. One that I learned a little while ago. Most of who are bidding on your auctions are other dealers and bottom feeders and cheap skates looking for a steal to display in their brick and mortar store for triple and more of what you got....no more easy deals for cheap skates and bottom feeders...do all BIN's and ask top dollar with a cap on the bottomfeeder offer price( for example...$200 card ask $195 with a locked in bottom offer of $185 and wait it out...bottom feeders will offer 80 bucks...screw them so automatically decline at $185)....an eager seller will LOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • ZixxZixx Posts: 228 ✭✭
    I think that BIN's are the way to go, but I also think that Best Offers are going the way of the Dodo too. If you have a $200 valued card that you list, don't bother listing it at $195 with a BO; just list it at what you would make a comfortable profit for and let it ride. $180? Even $185, especially if that is the price you want to get all along. You will almost NEVER get the full price if you have a BO feature, since you're telling the buyers you would definitely accept less. Don't waste your time with BO's, just list it. BO's can work in some situations, but are usually more hassle than they're worth. If a buyer wants to offer you less, he will send you a message and you can revise your listing to either offer the BO or just set it at the agreed price. That's worked fine for me on more expensive items.

    Whenever I post to a thread like this, I usually always have an Ebay store in mind. Even if you don't, if you sell good items that people would actually buy, to me it's worth a dollar or two to list it until it sells. If you don't have the volume for a store, perhaps bulking items into lots could be the way to go. Or having a store open for a month or two where you list everything you want to sell.
  • JMDVMJMDVM Posts: 950 ✭✭✭
    Yeah me too. 2 weeks ago, I inadvertently bought a 52 Bowman Small FB Chuck Ortmann that I didn't need for $36. Relisted it, and it sold for $23 tonight....to a dealer. Also listed some 62 BB that didn't even sell---couple of months ago I paid $10 each for them. I'm trying Buy It Now this week. Of course it seems when the I'm trying to buy common cards they always seem to draw bids----I'm probably getting shilled......
  • leadoff4leadoff4 Posts: 2,392
    Others have stated various reasons why this happens and basically all are correct. It's just the state of the market.
  • chaz43chaz43 Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I think that BIN's are the way to go, but I also think that Best Offers are going the way of the Dodo too. If you have a $200 valued card that you list, don't bother listing it at $195 with a BO; just list it at what you would make a comfortable profit for and let it ride. $180? Even $185, especially if that is the price you want to get all along. You will almost NEVER get the full price if you have a BO feature, since you're telling the buyers you would definitely accept less. Don't waste your time with BO's, just list it. BO's can work in some situations, but are usually more hassle than they're worth. If a buyer wants to offer you less, he will send you a message and you can revise your listing to either offer the BO or just set it at the agreed price. That's worked fine for me on more expensive items.

    Whenever I post to a thread like this, I usually always have an Ebay store in mind. Even if you don't, if you sell good items that people would actually buy, to me it's worth a dollar or two to list it until it sells. If you don't have the volume for a store, perhaps bulking items into lots could be the way to go. Or having a store open for a month or two where you list everything you want to sell. >>




    Disagree. Always give the buyer an option, you can always work out a deal if the buyer wants the card bad enough. chaz
  • MCMLVToppsMCMLVTopps Posts: 4,917 ✭✭✭✭✭
    my 2 cents...

    I think there are several factors that have simply come together like the "perfect storm" scenario. Not in any particular order but my thoughts are:

    (a) SMR prices...for whatever reason, there are more than enough buyers who have bought into these price values as gospel. I don't have the time or energy to post what I think of SMR data. It is, in many, many cases simply put, a long, long way from reality. I am very well versed on the 1955 Topps set and can provide the reader with at least a few dozen examples of the fallacy of SMR as it pertains to the 1955 Topps baseball set. PM if you want examples, far too many to list here.

    (b) VCP, IMO, is a wonderful tool to gather real-time market condition sales data with which to aid the seller in making a decision whether to sell or not, and what reasonable price he/she can hope to expect for the potential sale.

    (c) Both of the above are constantly called "guides", that is a fair comment, but item (b) is light years more accurate than item (a)

    (d) Crack outs have caused the POP Report to be so infected, that at some point it will be less than useful. How so? Crack out a PSA 7, get back a PSA 7...result, a ghost PSA 7 now exists in the POP report because the card (assuming it is sent in raw), has no identity as the submitter has not also included the red tag. Same thing if the card gets a bump or gets a downgrade. A false PSA 7 remains in the POP report. Crack out a PSA anything and if you don't send the tag in, no matter the grade that comes back, creates an orphan. This IMO, is the equvialent of a "3rd rail" issue for PSA. By going to the half-point system to generate revenue, they have caused one of their premiere items to become terminally infected with false data. Sadly, this cannot be fixed. Just go to any major set and see how many half-points are now a part of that set. The 1955 Topps set would be a good example. How many of those half-points did NOT come from an original raw submission? A LOT !!! Furthermore, I challenge anyone to discern the difference between a PSA 8 and a PSA 8.5 without the aid of a loupe.

    (e) Item (d) is important because the lower the POP, the assumption is the rarer the card, thus a higher price. Additionally, how many "buyers" go to the trouble of researching just how rare the card is or is not...say a seller claims the card has a POP of 10 and the POP report validates that. Well, search the Registry to see how many of those cards are tied up in Registered sets, either player or complete sets. If there are 6, or 7 of those cards already in the Registry, then the card in question has a TRUE POP of perhaps 3 and really valuable.

    (f) There is no question that collector's have been severly impacted by the Recession. Discretionary income has dried up somewhat and many simply cannot afford to buy cards as in the past.

    (g) On the upside to item (f), it has been widely reported that the Baby Boomers are (as of 2011), turning 65 at the rate of 10,000 per day and this will continue for many, many, many years. One wonders why the powers to be at PSA has not attempted to capitalize on this market by placing ads in some major newspaper sports sections to encourage more collectors. Surely there are hundreds, if not thousands who simply need to be made aware of card collecting, recapture the good old days, your favorite team/player, etc, etc.

    (h) Sellers who put up cards with an opening bid of 99 cents and away we go. Many cards are selling super cheap, in turn, devaluating the overalll market and driving down prices of cards that once sold at much, much higher prices.

    (i) There has been a major increase in the number of cards being sold. One can only assume sellers need the money for whatever reason. Saturated market, low opening bids, no reserves = lower sales prices and overall negative impact on the value of cards and future sales.

    Hopeuflly things will turn, but I think it may be a long time...that is unless you really have some hard to find cards, or stars to sell, these will always hold their value.

  • arexarex Posts: 999


    << <i>

    << <i>I think that BIN's are the way to go, but I also think that Best Offers are going the way of the Dodo too. If you have a $200 valued card that you list, don't bother listing it at $195 with a BO; just list it at what you would make a comfortable profit for and let it ride. $180? Even $185, especially if that is the price you want to get all along. You will almost NEVER get the full price if you have a BO feature, since you're telling the buyers you would definitely accept less. Don't waste your time with BO's, just list it. BO's can work in some situations, but are usually more hassle than they're worth. If a buyer wants to offer you less, he will send you a message and you can revise your listing to either offer the BO or just set it at the agreed price. That's worked fine for me on more expensive items.

    Whenever I post to a thread like this, I usually always have an Ebay store in mind. Even if you don't, if you sell good items that people would actually buy, to me it's worth a dollar or two to list it until it sells. If you don't have the volume for a store, perhaps bulking items into lots could be the way to go. Or having a store open for a month or two where you list everything you want to sell. >>




    Disagree. Always give the buyer an option, you can always work out a deal if the buyer wants the card bad enough. chaz >>


    Holy Hell I actually agree with Chaz on something lol
  • itzagoneritzagoner Posts: 8,753 ✭✭
    play the market, KNOW the market.....

    those 1967 Topps PSA 9 Everyday Joe's sure do look purty in those holders, but if a high population of said 9's exists, say 10% or more of the overall graded population for that example, well it's a no-brainer you won't get much for them and there's not much reason to pursue them anymore if today's uh, "bottom-feeders" are looking for nice raw cards anyways, it's still cheaper to get them graded yourself if you care to bother with the work, but the Registry will no longer support the seller other than for what it doesn't already have in plentitude.....the set itself is still highly popular, of course, so most of those "hits" on the auction may have been collectors gauging values....or eBay's counting device was just f'd up again. image

    if you're going to sell on eBay, you'd better have a heckuva lot to sell, and unless you have a mega-giant of a find or a stash and can milk it for awhile, take your lumps.

    these people are too smart, we're not selling cotton candy to children.


  • KbKardsKbKards Posts: 1,782 ✭✭✭
    The problem with relying on Ebay auction prices, which account for the bulk of the prices in VCP, is you're forcing cards to be sold at any price to a small audience of bidders who don't really want them. It's mostly just store sellers, flippers, dealers, and if you're lucky an occasional collector might happen to notice your card this week. The resellers don't want or need 1967 commons in PSA 9, but if they can buy them at a third of SMR and resell them to collectors when they're looking to buy them, then they'll continue to buy the cards discarded at auction.
  • bkingbking Posts: 3,095 ✭✭


    << <i>For those of you bashing ebay, and it certainly has plenty of faults, why do you believe it's not a reflection of market reality? Is it because the concept of card prices going down is unfathomable? Apart from possibly declining prices due to a lack of demand, which I think is the majority of the issue, exactly what venue is suppose to reflect this propped up market reality that many of you sellers think are the real prices? There are thousands of collectors scouring that sight every which way. It still represents by far the best way to get the most eyeballs, especially on relatively small priced cards. Apart from major auctions (which require rarer items), and the few real regional and national shows left, what else is there that will move items anywhere near as quick as ebay? My questions may sound rhetorical, but I'm very curious about this.

    If you're not getting the prices you want, it's because the card is priced too high (in the case of BIN), or because the few individuals (especially in the case of commons which may be one or none) that might be interested in your auction lot, is not present on ebay at the time (or didn't see it). Plus, it requires two really interested parties to drive up the price (tough to do with commons). If you were to put this in the few retail stores that exist, many of these cards would sit for years and may never sell. You could try an ad in the trades but that's even more money than ebay. This is what the market has become. Joe Orlando wrote an excellent article a couple of years back called "It's an auction world" that sort of expressed concern that this is the kind of market we were heading for as there are so few retail outlets left, as well as shows, for buying and selling. >>



    Well-stated. While I too lament the falling prices (well, the for stuff I'm trying to sell at least), this all sounds just like what sellers at card shows have been saying for over a decade - "everyone wants my stuff for nothing!" "My (inflated) prices are what I can sell for. If you don't them, someone else will buy."
    ----------------------
    Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
    ----------------------

    Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq


  • << <i>99% of all commons will still be commons. It sounds like something Yogi would say. I do it also; but.....grading companies did not come about to grade 1967 Grady Hattons'. This is something everyone is going to have to face including the grading companies. I'm alot pickier with what I submit than in the past. Most 1971's in an 8 are not worth more than grading fees///1970's are not worth grading fees///1969's have fallen terribly////1968's were never rare at all even in 9's let alone 8's....and 1972's aren't worth grading fees in 8's. The commons in the end will be common. High grade, properly graded stars will be the way to go.

    Mickey71 >>



    wholeheartedly agree with you.
  • markj111markj111 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭
    Bbut if they can buy them at a third of SMR and resell them to collectors when they're looking to buy them, then they'll continue to buy the cards discarded at auction. >>






    SMR has no place in this discussion, other than to say that it is irrelevant.
  • RonBurgundyRonBurgundy Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
    + 1 for Mickey's thoughts.
    Ron Burgundy

    Buying Vintage, all sports.
    Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
  • bkingbking Posts: 3,095 ✭✭


    << <i>Bbut if they can buy them at a third of SMR and resell them to collectors when they're looking to buy them, then they'll continue to buy the cards discarded at auction. >>






    SMR has no place in this discussion, other than to say that it is irrelevant. >>



    Sure it has a place. If buyers (dealers) can grab stuff at VCP or even below, and then sit on it until a "SMR-savvy" image buyer comes along to buy it at a discount from SMR - win!!
    ----------------------
    Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
    ----------------------

    Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
  • I miss the glory days of card collecting/selling on Ebay 5-6 years ago. Was so fun to find treasures and/or sell treasures to someone else. Life moves on.
  • PSARichPSARich Posts: 534 ✭✭✭
    I have read with great interest the responses to this link I started, mostly out of frustration that a couple nice 1967 PSA 9 commons I put on Ebay sold for prices about 25-30% less than I expected, especially with all the hits on the auctions. This I assumed meant a good deal of interest. However, your responses as a whole have made a lot of sense to me. 1) the market is getting overpopulated with high pop graded cards in sets/years where the demand is softening, 2) many dealers/sellers are constantly looking for great buys on cards they can turn around and make a profit on, 3) the economy has limited discretionary funds being spent on the hobby, and 4) Ebay can be fickle, depending on if the right buyers are looking for the card that is up for auction at the right time.

    Several of these are thoughts I have been aware of for a while, but the perspective of many responders has added to the understanding. I still believe that Ebay has been a blessing to the collector and the seller over the past 10-15 years and has made it possible for a great deal of sports card exchanges to take place that never could happen at this level before. Perhaps we (I) just got used to putting cards out there for auction and seeing a strong demand that generated nice prices until the past few years. I for one have funded my collecting habits by selling cards from my collection (multiple copies) that had graded for nice amounts of money and then using the profits to buy material I didn't have. As one reponder so aptly put it, commons are now just commons. There was a time (6-10 years ago) that I would send in a couple hundred 1974 baseball commons from vending I had bought and would get $30-$40 for a common in "9" and $10 for a common in "8". Those same cards can now be had for a fraction of those prices and often not cover the grading fees.

    Well, my frustration is over as a dose of reality has set in. Thanks for all your responses and best wishes for happiness in the hobby!
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭

    January 10, 2010

    ...................................

    EBAY

    PSA Cards

    Baseball 141,655

    Auction 16,143

    BIN 126,041

    ................

    EBAY

    PSA Cards

    Football 36,319

    Auction 4,670

    BIN 31,815


    ....................................


    Total Listing Counts / Top Three Sites*


    eBay 110,197,325

    eCrater 3,884,094

    Bonanza 3,462,654



    * ETSY is not considered a "top site," but currently has
    7,770,000 items listed. Their generic traffic is dynamic.


    .................................

    BINs are popular among sellers because they generate
    sales at prices sellers like.




    .



    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • chaz43chaz43 Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>I think that BIN's are the way to go, but I also think that Best Offers are going the way of the Dodo too. If you have a $200 valued card that you list, don't bother listing it at $195 with a BO; just list it at what you would make a comfortable profit for and let it ride. $180? Even $185, especially if that is the price you want to get all along. You will almost NEVER get the full price if you have a BO feature, since you're telling the buyers you would definitely accept less. Don't waste your time with BO's, just list it. BO's can work in some situations, but are usually more hassle than they're worth. If a buyer wants to offer you less, he will send you a message and you can revise your listing to either offer the BO or just set it at the agreed price. That's worked fine for me on more expensive items.

    Whenever I post to a thread like this, I usually always have an Ebay store in mind. Even if you don't, if you sell good items that people would actually buy, to me it's worth a dollar or two to list it until it sells. If you don't have the volume for a store, perhaps bulking items into lots could be the way to go. Or having a store open for a month or two where you list everything you want to sell. >>




    Disagree. Always give the buyer an option, you can always work out a deal if the buyer wants the card bad enough. chaz >>


    Holy Hell I actually agree with Chaz on something lol >>



    All Right !!! chaz
  • hammeredhammered Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭
    I agree with Zixx on the BO scenario. BO's tell the buyer you'd take less, and buyers often interpret that to mean MUCH less. Furthermore, BOs sort of imply that your card isn't really worth your high starting price. I think you have a better chance of selling a card at $195 firm than a card at $195/BO.

    If someone wants my card bad enough and is unwilling to pay the BIN, there is nothing stopping them from contacting me thru ebay with an offer. And it's usually a more serious offer this way. The BO feature has many people randomly submitting ridiculous offers and I have to either take time to reject them or set the auto-decline, which seems to me like a waste of time. If you have that card listed at 195 and a minimum auto-decline at 185, why not just set your BIN at 185? Or, wait for a buyer who is willing to pay the whopping extra $10.


  • RipublicaninMassRipublicaninMass Posts: 10,051 ✭✭✭
    Holy Hell I actually agree with Chaz on something lol >>


    write it down
  • As with most cases there is most likely a reasonable middle ground. The only reason that PSA8-9 late sixties and seventies commons aren't bringing what they did at the heighth of market is not that ebay is now just solely trolled by bottom feeders and tire kickers. It is that they are not going to bring that forever as more are introduced into the market or as people sell and cycle out of the market or as registries fill up. Many times the top end prices were driven by "two" people who wanted a card, not twenty-five or in some cases, god forbid, shill bidding as well. I have no reason to discount that some of the extreme prices at the top of the market were driven by nefarious activity any more than I do that ebay "auction" results are drive by "bottom feeders." If you have a card you want to sell and you have a price you must get for it, list it as a BIN with a Best Offer and run it until you get what you want. If you end up getting it, great, if not, the card simply won't bring that price today in the market/arena in which you have it listed.
    Collecting Pre-War, Pre-War HOF Types, Pre-War Postcards
  • I think it is because of eBay fees. If you could list it at the same price in an auction format as store you would do better. But a person can't because of fees. Fees make it illogical, especially when combined over a 1000 listings. $0.05 a month is much low then $1.20-$10.00 a month.
    Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards.
    Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.


  • << <i>If someone wants my card bad enough and is unwilling to pay the BIN, there is nothing stopping them from contacting me thru ebay with an offer. q]

    Other than the eBay policy in their Terms of Service that specifically prohibits a buyer from contacting a seller to engage in a transaction outside of eBay. And the lack of any buyer protection for a transaction conducted outside of eBay. As a buyer, I have no interest this type of transaction. That is what Craigs List is for. Furthermore, the utilization of the strategy to place grossly inflated BINs hoping to receive an off-eBay offer will negatively impact my perception of that seller going forward as a potential buyer. On the other hand, I have no problem if a seller plays by the rules and uses the BO option. It communicates to potential buyers that the seller is straightforward and interested in selling the item if the price is right.
    Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all "right-thinking" people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

    This is known as “bad luck.”
  • bkingbking Posts: 3,095 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>If someone wants my card bad enough and is unwilling to pay the BIN, there is nothing stopping them from contacting me thru ebay with an offer. q]

    Other than the eBay policy in their Terms of Service that specifically prohibits a buyer from contacting a seller to engage in a transaction outside of eBay. And the lack of any buyer protection for a transaction conducted outside of eBay. As a buyer, I have no interest this type of transaction. That is what Craigs List is for. Furthermore, the utilization of the strategy to place grossly inflated BINs hoping to receive an off-eBay offer will negatively impact my perception of that seller going forward as a potential buyer. On the other hand, I have no problem if a seller plays by the rules and uses the BO option. It communicates to potential buyers that the seller is straightforward and interested in selling the item if the price is right. >>

    >>



    What would be ideal is if EBay could hide the BO option from the buyer entirely. That way, all BINs could have a Best Offer set up, and the savvy buyers could contact you and remain under the EBay umbrella. As a seller, you can then price your BIN at what you WANT, yet also have a "what you'll settle for" without holding up a "lowball offers encouraged" sign.

    EBay gets their cut (of course), the buyer gets buyer protection, and the seller gets a chance to truly list an item at the desired price without putting off buyers.

    Too logical to work?
    ----------------------
    Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
    ----------------------

    Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
  • Good thread, lots of interesting replys.

    I think its a number of factors but the biggest is you are selling cards that demand is falling, hey they are called commons for a reason. I just dont see any way for PSA 8-10's to go up in value much less stay the same (except HOF Rookies and select others). Every additional card that gets graded reduces the demand, what was a high valued POP 2 a few years ago is selling for a heck of a lot less when its a POP 9, 1975 Topps Ryan comes to mind. Look no farther then 4sc and other mass submiters and see how they alone can cause prices to go lower when they flood ebay with graded cards. Hey I have played the grading game over the years and done really well like you but I knew It would not last.

    My ebay sales finished 2010 very strong to the point where my store needs more cards. I still use auctions but I set a minumun like your Kaline on my good stuff and I use .99 cent on cards I just want/need to sell. IMO anyone holding out for high prices on common graded 60's-70's is only going to lose more money in time as their values decline. Run them for 3-6 months in your store then sell at .99 auction, get what you can for them and use that cash to get into some of the great buys you can get right now. Taking a loss on a card is not so bad when you can get into other great cards at lower prices.
  • SDavidSDavid Posts: 1,584 ✭✭


    << <i>If someone wants my card bad enough and is unwilling to pay the BIN, there is nothing stopping them from contacting me thru ebay with an offer. q]

    Other than the eBay policy in their Terms of Service that specifically prohibits a buyer from contacting a seller to engage in a transaction outside of eBay. And the lack of any buyer protection for a transaction conducted outside of eBay. As a buyer, I have no interest this type of transaction. That is what Craigs List is for. Furthermore, the utilization of the strategy to place grossly inflated BINs hoping to receive an off-eBay offer will negatively impact my perception of that seller going forward as a potential buyer. On the other hand, I have no problem if a seller plays by the rules and uses the BO option. It communicates to potential buyers that the seller is straightforward and interested in selling the item if the price is right. >>



    Most times, the transactions are carried out through ebay. The seller just edits the price.
  • right on, generally the only VINTAGE commons that should be graded (not talking of high's and low pop) are mets, yanks, cubs, cardinals, red sox, tigers and maybe dodgers, although Phillies in the 50's to early 60's have some value.

    Commons from those teams generally sell well in high grade, although the market is in a slump right now.

    The problem is, no new collectors are joining the industry.
    In the USA all men are created equal but some are more equal than others....
  • ndleondleo Posts: 4,150 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>right on, generally the only VINTAGE commons that should be graded (not talking of high's and low pop) are mets, yanks, cubs, cardinals, red sox, tigers and maybe dodgers, although Phillies in the 50's to early 60's have some value.

    Commons from those teams generally sell well in high grade, although the market is in a slump right now.

    The problem is, no new collectors are joining the industry. >>




    The lack of new collectors (or new money) is what the hobby needs most. The internet brought back a lot of collectors that quit (like me) but now we need new people to get into the hobby.

    From the lack of weekend shows and hobby stores in most towns, I don't see any new money coming in.
    Mike
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,438 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Silverscreenmementos: 14,658 items - 18 auctions

    Sherrybcollections: 970 items - Zero auctions

    Lewiswaynegallery: 10,203 items - Zero auctions

    b-e-collectibles: 2,261 items - Zero auctions

    probstein123: 18,917 items - 606 auctions

    In these cases the numbers are like a picture that's worth a thousand words.
    Mike
  • RookieWaxRookieWax Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭


    << <i>You pretty much have to put commons on fixed price listings now unless you're doing a massive set break. High grade stars and low pops seem to sell fine, at least in line with the overall drop in the market in the last 2-3 years.

    I believe the drop in prices is 60% attributable to the economy, 20% to the idiocy of Ebay, 20% to the pops increasing on commons. They will drive BIN sellers away eventually too - right now, fees are about 13% (incl. the listing fee) for anything under $100. Take out another 3% for paypal, that's 16%. Deduct another 3% if you offer free shipping. Insanity. I'm evaluating where I want to be a year from now in terms of selling stuff, including being out of it entirely.

    However, I do think the economy is improving, though slowly. I've listed 36 items on my modest store since Friday and have already sold 8. Strongest sales in several months. >>



    Over the past few years, I have noticed a small spike in card sales from January through mid-March. I figure this is due to the down time between the end of the Fantasy Football season and the beginning of Fantasy Baseball drafts.
  • Market correction,what goes up must come down,no guarranty.I'm selling my collection now because I need the money now,I can't wait and hope all of a sudden the mass population who is unemployed,underemployed,lost alot in retirement funds is going to just start buying up baseball cards.I can't compare this hobby to a few years ago and complain about what I'm getting for little pictures of ballplayers on cardboard.Soon enough sportscards collecting will suffer the same fate as postage stamp collecting.JMHO
  • PSASAPPSASAP Posts: 2,284 ✭✭✭
    Oh yeah? When was the last time that you saw postage stamps playing in the World Series? image
  • EAsportsEAsports Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Over the past few years, I have noticed a small spike in card sales from January through mid-March. I figure this is due to the down time between the end of the Fantasy Football season and the beginning of Fantasy Baseball drafts. >>



    Also factor in end of year bonuses (bonii?), Christmas money, and tax refunds.
    My LSU Autographs

    Only an idiot would have a message board signature.
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