Defensive Seller - Was My Tip Offensive?
Obiwancanoli
Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭
I'm working - slowly - toward buidling my Type Set. I found a nice Buff T1 - here - and felt it was a fair buy.
Note the black spot on the reverse, just below the "E" in Cents...
I received the coin yesterday, and that black spot? It's actually green.
I've chosen to keep the coin, despite this obvious difference, as it is otherwise a nice looking coin in hand, though is lighter than illustrated. I may replace it down the road, but it was a fair price, I felt, so I wrote the seller, noted the disparity, and left postive feedback in every way. Nothing in that feed back could be construed as denegrating in any way. However, in my note to the seller, I suggested that while I intended to keep the coin, for future auction purposes, I suggested the seller might wish to include such details, should a similar circumstance occur. My intent was to offer the seller a bit of insight - presumtuous, I admit - that some buyers might notice the coins they buy are - even in the slightest way - different from how they were portrayed.
I did not think this was over the top, I did not complain (or did I?), nor did I request a refund or credit in any way. I noted I was happy with the coin, and left it at that.
The seller replied, and though brief, was very defensive. "So what exactly is it you are asking from me? You are happy yet you are not... I don't really understand..."
I chose not to respond further, concluding I would be more diligent in asking appropriate questions. I was merely offering what I thought would be helpful advice, since I've bought from this seller before (a couple years back), and would rather see a good seller succeed, and become a better seller, than any other alternative.
Should I have refrained from any communication? Should I have sent the coin back without any reason?
It just strikes me as irresponsible NOT to have advised the seller of the above. My intentions were, apparently, misinterpreted, and I now feel I may have made a mistake.
Comments?
Note the black spot on the reverse, just below the "E" in Cents...
I received the coin yesterday, and that black spot? It's actually green.
I've chosen to keep the coin, despite this obvious difference, as it is otherwise a nice looking coin in hand, though is lighter than illustrated. I may replace it down the road, but it was a fair price, I felt, so I wrote the seller, noted the disparity, and left postive feedback in every way. Nothing in that feed back could be construed as denegrating in any way. However, in my note to the seller, I suggested that while I intended to keep the coin, for future auction purposes, I suggested the seller might wish to include such details, should a similar circumstance occur. My intent was to offer the seller a bit of insight - presumtuous, I admit - that some buyers might notice the coins they buy are - even in the slightest way - different from how they were portrayed.
I did not think this was over the top, I did not complain (or did I?), nor did I request a refund or credit in any way. I noted I was happy with the coin, and left it at that.
The seller replied, and though brief, was very defensive. "So what exactly is it you are asking from me? You are happy yet you are not... I don't really understand..."
I chose not to respond further, concluding I would be more diligent in asking appropriate questions. I was merely offering what I thought would be helpful advice, since I've bought from this seller before (a couple years back), and would rather see a good seller succeed, and become a better seller, than any other alternative.
Should I have refrained from any communication? Should I have sent the coin back without any reason?
It just strikes me as irresponsible NOT to have advised the seller of the above. My intentions were, apparently, misinterpreted, and I now feel I may have made a mistake.
Comments?
UBERCOINER
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent
Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent
Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
0
Comments
I think you dealt with it in a professional way, and he/she should have responded in a more professional way.
Maybe the seller really doesn't understand what you meant. There are so many people who use the internet to make it easier to be hostile to others that the seller figured you were just another one of them, and that honest advice that's meant to be constructive isn't something to be expected, especially in an eBay transaction. While you probably should have spelled out your intentions more explicitly in the first place, perhaps a reply to his question along the lines of, "I'm fully satisfied with my purchase and am not asking anything of you, but just wanted to let you know that there are buyers who look for any reason imaginable to make any given transaction a nightmare."
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
You quoted the seller's reply here, yet failed to quote your feedback. What did you say in the feedback?
The only way to make an economic system truly stable is to permit the free market to take over.
I am in retail and it is really a tough task to teach new managers to set aside the ego when a customer is giving feedback.
The first gut reaction is to get defensive, but when they get past that emotion they start to see how customer service evolves.
I say keep giving the feedback.
Frankly speaking, I am a very new "seller" and the few transactions that I have had the buyer was much more knowledgeable than myself.
I listened, made notes and made sure I asked questions to understand what to do differently next time. Although this is a temporary position for me, I want to do it the best way possible.
Kudos to you and remember, any feedback is good feedback to a true professional.
Jay
<< <i>Seller was probably genuinely confused that you indicated satisfaction with the coin in your feedback yet you found fault with it in your message. Any indication of disatisfaction from a buyer leaves a seller wondering if the buyer is looking for compensation in some way. >>
Agree. Sounds like mixed signal were being sent to the seller. You find fault with the coin yet you want to keep the coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i> I was merely offering what I thought would be helpful advice, since I've bought from this seller before (a couple years back), and would rather see a good seller succeed, and become a better seller, than any other alternative. >>
That should have been your response to his reply. He would have taken it as constructive critiscism and learned from it if he is indeed a good seller.
I recently dealt with a seller who demanded 7% state sales tax after I bought and paid for a $1450 coin. Nothing was in his listing except a requirement for 7% state sales tax for instate (NJ) residents. I pointed out to him that I live in Florida where there is no sales tax on coins. He replied that he was required to collect 7% tax from ALL buyers. I provided him a link that told him otherwise. Eventually got the refund and then a request from him to cancel the auction so he could recoup his fees. Declined to cancel aution, told him that I honored my commitment when I paid him and that if he chose to not honor his commitment with the sale to just consider the fees his penalty for being a bad seller. Seller has since included the 7% state tax fee for all states in his listings, even states that don't have a sales tax on coins.
The only way to make an economic system truly stable is to permit the free market to take over.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
The seller replied, and though brief, was very defensive. "So what exactly is it you are asking from me? You are happy yet you are not... I don't really understand..."
doesn't sound defensive at all, just sounds like he didn't understand what you had in mind.
after all that is what he said.
what did you say?
You did post what appears to be the actual wording of the sellers response. And in his reply, I do not see anything offensive nor defensive. It looks to me like he really is puzzled by what you want or were trying to say.
We cannot know where the problem is until we see your actual communication to him.
I really think some sellers do need help and most do accept the constructive
criticism. But, remember that it is criticism.
A few years ago I started using this phrase when contacting sellers:
"Just a heads up......"
That does seem to not elicit negative responses. Maybe it's easier on the ego?
bob
<< <i>"So what exactly is it you are asking from me? You are happy yet you are not... I don't really understand..." >>
Doesn't sound defensive to me. It's a simple straight foward question.
To which you should reply "Nothing, I was just saying."
The seller deserves 5 stars for communication because he wrote back instead of blocking you, like most board members would have done.
<< <i>Should have stated up front that you intended to keep the coin, but wanted to provide feedback to him. There would have been no misinterpretation of your intentions. Shag >>
I agree.
<< <i>Obi Wan, you've paraphrased your note to the seller here. Why don't you cut-and-paste the actual communication so we can read it? >>
Bingo. Pretty hard to offer an informed opinion with half the story.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Obi Wan, you've paraphrased your note to the seller here. Why don't you cut-and-paste the actual communication so we can read it? Maybe there's a word or turn of phrase that comes off differently than you intended? And your fellow forum folks, as third parties, might see it more easily than you can. >>
Here's the Auction...
Here's the exchange...
Dear [Seller],
I received the 1913 Buffalo Type I today - thank you! It's a beautiful coin in fine shape, and will make a fine addition to my collection, however, I felt it would be helpful to pass along a recommendation -
While the pictures of the coin are somewhat dark, it appears much lighter in hand, and that's fine with me. Unfortunately, your auction picture of the Reverse shows a black spot below the "E" in "Cents", and that spot, candidly, is not black at all.. it's green, and of course this means verdigris.
While the spot is small, and hardly visible without aid, it does detract from the overall appearance of the coin, and clearly is not illustrated the way it appears in hand.
Nevertheless, I have left you Positive Feedback in every way. I'm not requesting any kind of adjustment, refund, or exchange, and am comfortable keeping the coin for the purposes for which I purchased it. I simply felt it was important I advised you, and will follow future auctions with interest. MJ Clark
- obi_wan_canoli
Dear [Buyer],
So what exactly is it you are asking from me. You
are happy yet you are not? I don't really
understand.
- Seller
Dear [Seller],
I'm sorry, I did not mean to be offensive. I simply thought it might be helpful to you to know, presumably the next time a similar coin is offered, and a more detailed description is warranted.
- obi_wan_canoli
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent
Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
Russ, NCNE
The only way to make an economic system truly stable is to permit the free market to take over.
...ahhhhhhh the bay.
In regards to the spot: Its very clearly visible in the ad and the seller proivded pictures that are 7X the width of normal nickle. 7X with nice resolution. In regards to color...very subjective.
In regards to the buyer: You say its barely visible 'without' aide yet 'detracts' from the overall appearance of the coin.
Very simply: There was spot, the spot was disclosed and someone choose to purches it with full knowledge of a spot 'barely visable without aide".
Sorry, although I'm a new guy around these parts I have to side with seller.
<< <i>I buy and sell of vintage bicycles parts through various sources including but not limited to Craigslist, Ebay, inp erson and internet forums. Two of my biggest peves are when 'know it all's' ask me questions thae clearly know answers to or provide 'advice' about I'm selling.
In regards to the spot: Its very clearly visible in the ad and the seller proivded pictures that are 7X the width of normal nickle. 7X with nice resolution. In regards to color...very subjective.
In regards to the buyer: You say its barely visible 'without' aide yet 'detracts' from the overall appearance of the coin.
Very simply: There was spot, the spot was disclosed and someone choose to purches it with full knowledge of a spot 'barely visable without aide".
Sorry, although I'm a new guy around these parts I have to side with seller. >>
A Spot? Yes, I'd side with the seller too, since, as you noted, it's "very clearly visible"... but when the coin arrived, that "spot" was clearly GREEN, thus, clearly verdigris, and had the seller noted that, it might have affected my choice to bid.
The issue here, Jim, is disclosure.
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent
Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
Gosh good thing you didn't ask for better pictures first or I would have had to put you on my blocked list.
J/K!
But when I tried to bid the coin, it was then I'd learned I was blocked. First and only time it's ever happened, to my knowledge...
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent
Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
<< <i>That actually happened to me once... pix were too distant and unfocused, so I asked if seller could provide clearer, focused pix, and he never responded...
But when I tried to bid the coin, it was then I'd learned I was blocked. First and only time it's ever happened, to my knowledge... >>
Ah yep.. You will find that there are a lot of coin sellers who don't need to sell their coins to anyone and everyone and won't if they think you are unworthy or a hassle or a PITA. I found a way to get a lot of those sellers that post here to block me from buying which I appreciate.
Why did I get blocked