Guess the grade of this Flowing Hair Half dollar! GRADE POSTED ON PG 2!

AnkurJ · January 7, 2011 2:48AM

She is in a problem free PCGS OGH. Thoughts?

AJ

curly · January 7, 2011 2:56AM

I'll say Very Fine. I like it a lot!

VF35

edited to add numerical grade.

BigRick · January 7, 2011 3:33AM

ANACONDA · January 7, 2011 3:41AM

This is a great opportunity to show how images can give you enough info to grade coins. Please, take the first 10 grades proposed by this forum, drop the highest and lowest, then average them together, tell us what that average is and then what pcgs graded the coin. (I'm tempted to say "then tell us what PCGS should have graded the coin.)

I grade it a 20. (I think it might be a 25 but I think they probably knocked it down 5 points from at 25 to a 20 because of the adjustment marks....)

So, please let at least 10 folks give their guess before you reveal the grade that PCGS has given it.

ANACONDA · January 7, 2011 3:42AM

And if everyone could give a numerical grade, that would be good.

joebb21 · January 7, 2011 3:45AM

f15

LindeDad · January 7, 2011 3:47AM

VF35 I think they are a little more forgiving to the old ladies.

LoveMyLiberty · January 7, 2011 3:59AM

A nice example of an O-116 , I believe. I'll give it a weak VF-20.

JoeLewis · January 7, 2011 4:16AM

commoncents05 · January 7, 2011 4:18AM

The photos are scans, but I assume you already knew that. I grade it as a VF20, but it looks to have the shine of being cleaned. The adjustment marks on the obverse are going to hurt when reselling it.

-Paul

grip · January 7, 2011 4:30AM

20. The adjustment marks in that location hurts the eye appeal.

AnkurJ · January 7, 2011 4:32AM

<< The photos are scans, but I assume you already knew that. I grade it as a VF20, but it looks to have the shine of being cleaned. The adjustment marks on the obverse are going to hurt when reselling it.

-Paul >>

The surfaces look original to me. Will post pics when she arrives.

curly · January 7, 2011 4:49AM

If it was ever cleaned then it was gentle cleaning many years ago. Also adjustment marks and a weak strike were part of the coining process back then and although it may affect the price, it shouldn't affect the grade.

I remember when Anaconda had a proof IHC some years ago that had some monster die cracks or die scratches on it. I can't remember the the date but it was Photo Sealed. I believe it was a 65.

commoncents05 · January 7, 2011 4:51AM

<< 

<< The photos are scans, but I assume you already knew that. I grade it as a VF20, but it looks to have the shine of being cleaned. The adjustment marks on the obverse are going to hurt when reselling it.

-Paul >>

The surfaces look original to me. Will post pics when she arrives. >>

Blue/purple coloring is rarely original on circulated silver.

-Paul

pmac · January 7, 2011 4:56AM

I'm guessing vf25. Nice piece of history.

Bochiman · January 7, 2011 4:58AM

So, the marks that form a small cross (+) behind her head, and the ones that form a slanted (X) on her head, are adjustment marks?

nankraut · January 7, 2011 5:01AM

I realize it's a rare and desirable coin; but those obverse adjustment marks really turn me off.

garrynot · January 7, 2011 5:04AM

F-12 Who cares, I want it whatever it is.

curly · January 7, 2011 5:05AM

I think the horizontal mark behind the head is a small ding. I can't speak for the slanted marks but the vertical lines definately look like adjustment marks.

coinfreak499 · January 7, 2011 5:10AM

I guess F15. And it really is a guess...

JRocco · January 7, 2011 5:28AM

I'll go with a 20 also,
Nice coin.
Not sure it would get into a problem free holder today if sent in raw though.

AnkurJ · January 7, 2011 6:03AM

Here is one with adjustment marks. A tougher variety so that probably helped.

1795

jdillane · January 7, 2011 6:09AM

I say 25. Perhaps shot 30. I don't mind the adjustment marks.

IrishMikey · January 7, 2011 6:13AM

It should be in a VF-25 holder, but I am going to guess that it is either in a F-15 holder or
a VF-20 holder.

TomB · January 7, 2011 6:59AM

Neutral to negative eye appeal and I would not be surprised to find out it had been lightened somewhat at some point.

AnkurJ · January 7, 2011 7:25AM

Here are the guesses so far:

F12: 1
F15: 2
VF20: 6
VF25: 3
VF30: 1
VF35: 2

So as per Anaconda, take away the highest and lowest. With that the grade averages out to......22.3. So lets say VF20.
Here is the grade. The reason I bought it is because it looks undergraded to me, and it was priced at F12 money. Again, will see how it is in hand.

Ankur

LoveMyLiberty · January 7, 2011 7:47AM

The funny part about this GTG is if you look on Coinfacts
in the 1795 Half Dollar section they have 44 coins shown
in a range of grades. In grades VF-35 to F-12 there are
21 examples and you can find a coin in similar condition to
the OP's coin in nearly all of the grades from VF-35 to F-12.

ANACONDA · January 7, 2011 8:09AM

So, what is the grade predicted when averaging the first ten grades and dropping the highest and lowest grades...?

ANACONDA · January 7, 2011 8:11AM

Sorry...you have already done the math...and it looks like my prognostication was not too far off....

tydye · January 7, 2011 8:33AM

What would the guesses be like without the marks? I think she looks VF30 but ding her down to VF20 because of the marks. Either way it appears a deal at F12 money.

grip · January 7, 2011 8:55AM

I would buy all those for F12 money.Lotta meat for a 12.

AnkurJ · January 7, 2011 10:32AM

<< I would buy all those for F12 money.Lotta meat for a 12. >>

Agreed! Here is a Fine 12 that just sold on heritage. Difference in detail is amazing!

1795 PCGS Fine 12

MikeInFL · January 7, 2011 1:10PM

Silent net grade, IMO, Ankur.

Nice coin, BTW.

lkeigwin · January 7, 2011 1:20PM

Sweet half, Ankur. Love the reverse. I'm having a hard time with the obverse but I understand how easy it might be to enjoy. Especially at F12 money! Congrats.
Lance.

stman · January 7, 2011 1:29PM

When I see an old classic that appears under-graded, the first thing I think of is why? Some might feel it's because of the "OGH" not the case with me.
I don't care what holder if any it's in. The adjustment marks don't bother me as much as the surfaces do going by the image. I don't care for the color I see. So, I would say silently net graded for being boinked with in some way. So you probably paid what it might be worth.

AnkurJ · January 7, 2011 2:19PM

<< When I see an old classic that appears under-graded, the first thing I think of is why? Some might feel it's because of the "OGH" not the case with me.
I don't care what holder if any it's in. The adjustment marks don't bother me as much as the surfaces do going by the image. I don't care for the color I see. So, I would say silently net graded for being boinked with in some way. So you probably paid what it might be worth. >>

As commoncents posted, the image is a scan. The light from scanners can make images appear quite off. Hopefully that is not the case. Will see how she looks in hand. If it was net graded, thats a pretty big grade drop.

stman · January 7, 2011 3:13PM

<< 

<< When I see an old classic that appears under-graded, the first thing I think of is why? Some might feel it's because of the "OGH" not the case with me.
I don't care what holder if any it's in. The adjustment marks don't bother me as much as the surfaces do going by the image. I don't care for the color I see. So, I would say silently net graded for being boinked with in some way. So you probably paid what it might be worth. >>

As commoncents posted, the image is a scan. The light from scanners can make images appear quite off. Hopefully that is not the case. Will see how she looks in hand. If it was net graded, thats a pretty big grade drop. >>

I'm very familiar with using and reading a scan. In fact, I'm one of the very few that still uses one. I can only go by the image I see. Sometimes a scan is a good tool as it can be more true than a fancy tweaked photograph. I can't help it, when I see that blue/purple on old circulated silver it don't look right to me. I returned a 1801 Draped half with this same look. It also, was "undergraded" but in reality it was net graded down. Hope you are pleased when you get it.

ANACONDA · January 7, 2011 6:12PM

I remember times in the past when folks "in the know" said that some of the grading services were grading coins unfathomably strictly for the purpose of heightening demand for coins in their holders. It might have been 'round the time when green inserts were being used.

My suspicions are that if you resubmitted the coin, it would come back in a higher holder.

But, I like the coin in the holder it is in. In the holder it is in, it is like a Clouded Leopard. In a higher numbered holder it would be more like a European Starling.

AnkurJ · January 8, 2011 12:40AM

<< I remember times in the past when folks "in the know" said that some of the grading services were grading coins unfathomably strictly for the purpose of heightening demand for coins in their holders. It might have been 'round the time when green inserts were being used.

My suspicions are that if you resubmitted the coin, it would come back in a higher holder.

But, I like the coin in the holder it is in. In the holder it is in, it is like a Clouded Leopard. In a higher numbered holder it would be more like a European Starling. >>

So if it looks nice in hand, would you crack it out or submit under regrade? Worst case scenario would be it comes back as a Fine 12 in a new PCGS holder.

AnkurJ · January 8, 2011 1:10AM

I didnt think you could put a minimum for a grade review/regrade.

commoncents05 · January 9, 2011 4:19AM

Not shocked by the grade. It's been net graded due to the cleaning and adjustment marks.

-Paul

ANACONDA · January 9, 2011 4:23AM

<< 

<< I remember times in the past when folks "in the know" said that some of the grading services were grading coins unfathomably strictly for the purpose of heightening demand for coins in their holders. It might have been 'round the time when green inserts were being used.

My suspicions are that if you resubmitted the coin, it would come back in a higher holder.

But, I like the coin in the holder it is in. In the holder it is in, it is like a Clouded Leopard. In a higher numbered holder it would be more like a European Starling. >>

So if it looks nice in hand, would you crack it out or submit under regrade? Worst case scenario would be it comes back as a Fine 12 in a new PCGS holder. >>

No, I would not crack it out and resubmit it. I like clouded leopards WAY more than European Starlings. Even if you are going to sell the coin, it will probably bring about the same price because most intelligent folks know that under current grading standards it is a 20.

AnkurJ · January 9, 2011 4:33AM

The dealer I bought this coin from almost always uses scans. Another forum member showed me images of a coin he sold to the dealer. The scans of the coin made it look lighter, and I was told in reality the coin had even dark surfaces. So it is possible the scan might make the surfaces look worse than they are. We will see.

I personally think it would be a candidate for a CAC gold sticker.

Halfhunter06 · January 9, 2011 4:40AM

I totally agree with the grade, but what about the scratch on the face?

Baley · January 9, 2011 4:42AM

excellent coin, I'd grade it 15 if pressed for a round "TPG" number, but IMO really a good example of a fine 17 or 18.
Wonderful surfaces, only barely netted for the eye appeal affects of the adjustment marks

AnkurJ · January 9, 2011 4:54AM

Here are a pair of PCGS Fine 12's for comparison.

Guess the grade of this Flowing Hair Half dollar! GRADE POSTED ON PG 2!

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