World's richest man moving into silver?

derryb · January 3, 2011 10:23PM

This should put a boot in the shorts:

Senor Slim wants to get physical

57loaded · January 4, 2011 1:38AM

and here i'm thinking in my wee world all they really want is a piece of

piecesofme · January 4, 2011 1:52AM

It is beginning to look like the longer he waits, the more he will have to pay.

Hmmm, very interesting. Maybe todays now 4% drop has something to do with him wanting to buy in? The shorts are scared ****less and want to get out before this guy buys in me thinks.

CaptHenway · January 4, 2011 1:54AM

<< It is beginning to look like the longer he waits, the more he will have to pay.

Hmmm, very interesting. Maybe todays now 4% drop has something to do with him wanting to buy in? The shorts are scared ****less and want to get out before this guy buys in me thinks. >>

Could be......

Baley · January 4, 2011 2:00AM

explain, please, how short covering causes the price of something to fall?

shorts getting out of their position usually involves BUYING

piecesofme · January 4, 2011 2:02AM

call it a hunch

CaptHenway · January 4, 2011 2:03AM

<< explain, please, how short covering causes the price of something to fall?

shorts getting out of their position usually involves BUYING >>

If, as has been widely speculated, certain POWERS THAT BE have the power to occasionally push spot prices down dramatically, they might have done so in order to be able to bail out of their short positions and cut their losses.

How this is (theoretically) accomplished has not yet been explained to me.

TD

piecesofme · January 4, 2011 2:08AM

If, as has been widely speculated, certain POWERS THAT BE have the power to occasionally push spot prices down dramatically, they might have done so in order to be able to bail out of their short positions and cut their losses. How this is (theoretically) accomplished has not yet been explained to me.

It has happened too many times to be considered "coincidence" in my book, therefore, it is something that is/has being/been done...and peons you & me (i'll speak for myself, me) will most likely never find out how unless someone does a Madoff and essentially fesses up.

jmski52 · January 4, 2011 2:18AM

They can create money out of thin air. Why can't they take naked short positions in any quantity they want, any time they want? Physical is a different animal, but the paper shorts can do anything they want. As long as they never have to pay up, or liquidate enough of their positions to reveal their losing position, they are good to go.

Let's remember that the game doesn't exist to help the little guy. The rules can change anytime, and the laws can be and are changed to accomodate the players if they get into a bind. Like bailing out AIG with taxpayer dollars so that they could pay off their losing bets to Goldman. Otherwise, poor Goldman Sachs would've had to eat $15 Billion. That couldn't be allowed. Remember who owns the game.

bluelobster · January 4, 2011 2:22AM

short covering causes prices to go up, long liquidation causes them to drop.

of course the retail metals market is dominated by conspiracy theorists, so what is up might be down

57loaded · January 4, 2011 2:38AM

buying creates a demand (need) to sell there's always ( or should be ) a discount for a BIG buyer, n'est-ce pas? especially for a physical purchase. there is not one house selling so a discount.

and there's some cascade of the progam selling amplification?

keep in mind this is a short paper reaction and (IMHO) short term.

be thankful to be in a position to buy at this momentary drop created today

RedTiger · January 4, 2011 2:52AM

I tend not to trade silver, so I will use an example from the stock market.

One of the more common ways prices are manipulated is when a certain price level triggers orders. The most common is when there is a stop-loss order on the books for a certain stock. The NYSE specialist in the stock sees all the orders. He can "pick-off" the stop order by selling a tranch of that stock sending it careening lower in the short term. The stop-loss gets triggered, the specialist can load up on stock at that lower price and get back to an even position, with some profit in his pocket.

In silver, there isn't a single specialist. However, certain technical price levels or round number price levels attract orders. Sometimes they are stop-losses, buys, stop-cover-short. With any of these, an entity with some juice can gather their money and then move the market in the short term to hit one of those trigger price points. Silver is a tiny financial market. The entire year's demand for physical is about a billion ounces. Anyone so inclined with some spare cash can try to manipulate that market with only $30 billion unleveraged dollars. With 400x leverage like some creative players use, the number is a small one. In the short term, intra-day, the cash number gets very small.

CaptHenway · January 4, 2011 2:56AM

<< If, as has been widely speculated, certain POWERS THAT BE have the power to occasionally push spot prices down dramatically, they might have done so in order to be able to bail out of their short positions and cut their losses. How this is (theoretically) accomplished has not yet been explained to me.

It has happened too many times to be considered "coincidence" in my book, therefore, it is something that is/has being/been done...and peons you & me (i'll speak for myself, me) will most likely never find out how unless someone does a Madoff and essentially fesses up. >>

I do believe that the market is being manipulated, but since I can't prove it, I have to keep my comments hypothetical.

jmski52 · January 4, 2011 2:57AM

A game of "chicken", anyone?

pitboss · January 4, 2011 3:04AM

.I think I will keep buying but at a lower amount for now. as no one seems to know what is really happening,

roadrunner · January 4, 2011 3:31AM

On 4 out of the last 5 trading days gold/silver were hit hard between 8:15 and 8:30. Sheer coincidence?

Couldn't they at least vary it by a half hour each day?

roadrunner

derryb · January 4, 2011 3:47AM

<< On 4 out of the last 5 trading days gold/silver were hit hard between 8:15 and 8:30. Sheer coincidence?

Couldn't they at least vary it by a half hour each day?

roadrunner >>

Can't let things interfere with the scheduled martini break.

CaptHenway · January 4, 2011 3:48AM

<< A game of "chicken", anyone? >>

Are you trying to egg them on?????

jmski52 · January 4, 2011 5:31AM

Are you trying to egg them on?????

Is that a light at the end of the tunnel, or another train?!!

RedTiger · January 4, 2011 11:00PM

For those that wonder about manipulation, a good time to deploy resources would be after a big down day. Another decent intra-day downdraft can take out a lot of small fish futures players, by forcing margin calls. That would be a time to hit it hard, and hopefully get back to an even position after scooping up the contracts of those forced out. So while there isn't an order book for silver, like there is for stocks on the NYSE, anyone can do simple math. If futures are at 5% or 7% minimum margin, then a 5% or 7% down move forces those on minimum margin out. The game isn't that simple because there are so many players, but it does illustrate a simple form of possible short term manipulation.

World's richest man moving into silver?

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