Jack Morris

markj111

With the HOF election upon us, I decided to post (re-post?) this conclusion from the Jack Morris Project at Baseball Prospectus. It was written in 2003.


"As I said, I don't know what the performance record of someone who had successfully pitched to the score would look like. I am certain, though, that for a pitcher to build his Hall of Fame case on the notion that he did such a thing, he couldn't have put his team behind in nearly two-thirds of his career starts, and he couldn't have blown leads once a month throughout his career.

Jack Morris was a very good pitcher whose primary skill was durability. He benefited from coming up with a number of good players, players who would form the core of a good offense that scored lots of runs for him. He happened to have a career in a down period for starting pitchers, so he stands out among his peers more than someone with his performance record would in the 1970s or 1990s.

He's not a Hall of Famer. As much as I loved watching Game Seven in 1991, and as much as I think the man got cheated by collusion in 1986, he's not a Hall of Famer. "


As an aside, how many votes did Rick Reuschel get for the HOF?

Jack Morris: 527 starts, 3.90 ERA, 105 ERA+
Rick Reuschel: 529 starts, 3.37 ERA, 114 ERA+

MBerry10

If Kirby strikes out in his last at bat in game 6 or drops the Ron Gant drive at the wall, does Morris even make the HOF conversation?

digicat

digicat

<< <i>If Kirby strikes out in his last at bat in game 6 or drops the Ron Gant drive at the wall, does Morris even make the HOF conversation? >>



Good question! If anyone here has an Alternate Universe machine, go find out for us and report back!

Boopotts

<< <i>

<< <i>If Kirby strikes out in his last at bat in game 6 or drops the Ron Gant drive at the wall, does Morris even make the HOF conversation? >>



Good question! If anyone here has an Alternate Universe machine, go find out for us and report back! >>



I think he's missing that- but he does have an Alternate Identity machine!

CEOBIDMC

great pitcher, not a hall of famer.

drewsef

Is there anyone on the boards who watched Jack Morris pitch and think, that guy is a Hall of Famer? That's always a good first clue IMO

bking

<< <i>

<< <i>If Kirby strikes out in his last at bat in game 6 or drops the Ron Gant drive at the wall, does Morris even make the HOF conversation? >>



Good question! If anyone here has an Alternate Universe machine, go find out for us and report back! >>



Isn't having one a requirement for understanding some of the threads on here?

bman90278

Jack Morris deserves to be in the Hall......................................................



The Hall of Good.

Brian

lanemyer85

no. Morris was a very good pitcher and all, and I think he gets a little overrated because he probably was the best SP of the 80's, but that's primarily the result of having Clemens/Gooden/Hershiser etc come in at the middle of the decade combined with a strong falloff/general lack of elite level talent from Guidry etc and virtually any other SP that debuted in the mid to late 70's. It also helps Morris' cause with his post-season record 7-4 with a 3.80 ERA (though he was at 7-2 with a 2.60 ERA before getting his ears pinned back in his final postseason in 1992 with the Blue Jays). In reality, both Trammell and Whitaker have stronger cases, and quite frankly, if it's taken this long for a superior SP like Blyleven, then Morris is a pretty clear no.

Pitcher-------- W---- -L---- IP----ERA--ERA+-AS--CY--3C--HoFS
Bert Blyleven 287--250-4970---3.31-118---2----0----0---50.0
Jack Morris--- 254--186-3824---3.90-105---5----0----3---39.0


Pitcher----PRAR----PRAA-----Carer---Peak----JAWS
Blyleven---871-----363------ 92.4----49.3------70.9
Morris----- 346---- -78------ 36.2----27.3------31.8

AS is All-Star and CY is Cy Young Awards won; 3C is a tally of leagues led in the triple-crown categories for pitchers (wins, ERA, and strikeouts); HoFS and HoFM are the Bill James Hall of Fame Standards and Hall of Fame Monitor. PRAR = pitcher runs above replacement level, PRAA = pitcher runs above average. JAWS is a given player's average peak WARP to that of the rest of his career WARP.