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Greatest story regarding a caustic coin dealer
halfcentman
Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭
As I am waiting for my lovely wife and daughters to make dinner.
A gentleman and his 11-year-old son were at a coin show. The man was a large Bust Quarter specialist.
While examining some slabs, his son (inappopriately) reached into an open showcase and pulled out a coin. The dealer went ballistic and chided the kid to the point of unacceptability.
Immediately thereafter, the father tells the dealer "give us a moment." The father tells his son to trust him and to tell the dealer "I am sorry sir, it won't happen again."
Even after the youngster apologized, the dealer continued to chide the boy. Meanwhile, the father purchased three coins, cut a check, thanked the dealer and told him to have a nice day - while our caustic dealer said nothing.
When they left the bourse, the father told his son that the reason why he told him to do that was "by making thousands of dollars in profit, that was MY way of telling that guy that he was an (expletive)! That way, I can go back there again and again, and indirectly tell him the same thing."
This is a point we often overlook. Our first reaction would be to blow up. We expect other people in a transaction to act a certain way. That's idiotic. You're not taking 99% of these people out to dinner or inviting them into your home. Whether you are a collector or a dealer, it's business.
It's the same strategy that won we tens of thousands of dollars playing 10-20 and 15-30 Hold'em. Let other people think that they are in control, when in fact YOU ARE.
A gentleman and his 11-year-old son were at a coin show. The man was a large Bust Quarter specialist.
While examining some slabs, his son (inappopriately) reached into an open showcase and pulled out a coin. The dealer went ballistic and chided the kid to the point of unacceptability.
Immediately thereafter, the father tells the dealer "give us a moment." The father tells his son to trust him and to tell the dealer "I am sorry sir, it won't happen again."
Even after the youngster apologized, the dealer continued to chide the boy. Meanwhile, the father purchased three coins, cut a check, thanked the dealer and told him to have a nice day - while our caustic dealer said nothing.
When they left the bourse, the father told his son that the reason why he told him to do that was "by making thousands of dollars in profit, that was MY way of telling that guy that he was an (expletive)! That way, I can go back there again and again, and indirectly tell him the same thing."
This is a point we often overlook. Our first reaction would be to blow up. We expect other people in a transaction to act a certain way. That's idiotic. You're not taking 99% of these people out to dinner or inviting them into your home. Whether you are a collector or a dealer, it's business.
It's the same strategy that won we tens of thousands of dollars playing 10-20 and 15-30 Hold'em. Let other people think that they are in control, when in fact YOU ARE.
0
Comments
Larry L.
<< <i>Wow, is it me or I couldn't get the point in the least.....I must be real real dense these days
God, I love ya, Realone!
Great story, halfcentman.
Let's just say that his collection was nice.
<< <i>Wow, is it me or I couldn't get the point in the least.....I must be real real dense these days
I missed the point also. Was it a cherry pick, did he buy coins from another dealer, or did he bounce the check?
<< <i>
<< <i>Wow, is it me or I couldn't get the point in the least.....I must be real real dense these days
I missed the point also. Was it a cherry pick, did he buy coins from another dealer, or did he bounce the check? >>
Since halfcentman is a good friend of mine, I heard this story in detail on one of our trips down to the Baltimore show...
What took place was simply a "cherrypick"... the father, who was in the process of spotting some rare varieties in the caustic dealer's inventory, did not want some unfortunate incident to get in the way of a potentially good deal...
I can offer this... a good friend of mine, who is a variety specialist and "known" author of numismatic books, once spotted a better variety in my inventory... he told me about it... I asked him why he didn't just buy it instead of tell me... he said "I like you... I don't cherrypick dealers that I like. I educate them instead." ... he added, "I almost wish I didn't like you because that is a better variety and I like it alot"... we ended up striking a deal... with a good price for him and a decent mark up for me...
Two big lessons here...
Being nice usually ends up being a good thing for all parties involved...
and
Just because someone is rude or abrasive is not always a good enough reason to write them off or tell them off... sometimes using restraint of pen and/or tongue can be one of the best tools one can employ when conducting business...
The collector and his son did not cherry the guy, but they bought quality coins for a song. If he had told the guy off, chances are the well would have run dry. By patronizing the jerk, and making him think like he's getting the better of you (when it's the other way around), you have a place to go back to over and over again.
I am sure that you have watched poker tournmanents on TV. Many of the best players have one flaw - EGO. The thought of berating another inferior opponent is about as stupid as stupid gets. So what if that guy sucks you out (beats you on the last card) when he had no reason for playing. Over the long run, you want that guy there all day long, and you need to make him feel right at home.
The same is true with doing business. Check your ego at the door without getting dumped on. Make your statement by making money, and getting good deals.
------
By the way, this caustic behavior also goes the other way as well. Personally (and not that it matters), but the patrons of the show tend to be more annoying than the table holders. It is laughable to watch patrons engaged in over-the-top, and annoying haggling techniques. It used to bother me a lot, now I consider it comedy. The bottom line is that the good dealer knows how to deal with all sorts of customers, and they control the customer like a marionette.
I treat every person who comes to my table as a potential customer and if their son or daughter did something like that I would simply ask them to not touch anything until I could get back with them (if it bothered me). I have pulled some of my special coins out of my cases to show kids some of the varieties and rarer coins. These kids are our future to coin collecting.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>Wow, is it me or I couldn't get the point in the least.....I must be real real dense these days
You were't the only one, Al
Others here can agree.
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Maybe a few here on the forum started a bit early tonight??
"by making thousands of dollars in profit, that was MY way of telling that guy that he was an (expletive)! That way, I can go back there again and again, and indirectly tell him the same thing."
But the guy didn't get that message, did he? Oh...it was "indirect". Huh?
Sorry to be thick.
Lance.
<< <i>Wow, is it me or I couldn't get the point in the least.....I must be real real dense these days
No, its not you. I read it five times and could not make heads or tails out of it (no coin pun here). Sometimes I wonder what ops are smoking. What the heck is this guy talking about?
Please explain how the dad made thousands of dollar of profits?
And how he is going to go back for more?
<< <i>I wouldn't let anybody insult & mistreat me or any member of my family for any amount of profit. Lame. >>
My thoughts exactly. (well, except the "Lame" part. I'd probably have said "
Happy New Year. I found the story and the follow-up posts both interesting and insightful. Thanks.
Great Story - I totally agree!
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
Come to think of it, I lose a lot, only win a little. I guess I am
not very good at that. Personally,I would have grabbed the dealers
shirt, pulled him close to me and first apologized, then I would have
whispered in his ear" If you ever speak to my son again in that manner,
I will drag you out of the show and beat you to a bloody pulp" My sons are
more important to me, then any damn coins.
Camelot
I'm no hothead, but have very low tolerance for mistreatment of kids - especially my own.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
By continuing to go back to a jerk like that and making money hand over fist, you're doing just that. The fact that the guy is not getting the point is irrevelant, because someone like that is not going to get it.
All I can to some of you is this: If you had even come within one inch of putting a hand on that guy, you would have found yourself in jail while spending thousands of dollars for a lawyer and on the wrong end of a lawsuit. This is not TV where in the show "Parenthood" some guy call's someone's autistic kid a "retard" and the father lays him out. This is real life, and it does not work that way.
Take it from someone who has major-league anger issues for most of his life.
FWIW, the man's son was a trained martial arts expert. His kid, now in his 30's, thinks it was a wonderful life lesson. Let's just end it here.
---------
BTW, if anyone wants to hear some stories from the felt - PM me.
Guy had a case OPEN, with me standing right in front of him, us looking at one another, and I mentioned an interest in a coin he had. Thinking his body language (a slight nod, as I recall) said, "go ahead, you can pick it up", I reached around into the case and picked it up. Not off to one side, not subtly or in a sneaky fashion, but again... right in front of the guy. He went ballistic as described in the OP.
Geez, my misunderstanding. I was fully aware of bourse etiquette but thought the guy had implied consent for me to touch his precious inventory. Needless to say, after he grossly overreacted, I gingerly put the coin back down in his case and walked away.
<< <i>Geez, my misunderstanding. I was fully aware of bourse etiquette but thought the guy had implied consent for me to touch his precious inventory. Needless to say, after he grossly overreacted, I gingerly put the coin back down in his case and walked away. >>
"DON'T TOUCH MY JUNK!"
Happy New Year once again,
Greg
<< <i>I get it, be appearing to lose, you sometimes get to win.
Come to think of it, I lose a lot, only win a little. I guess I am
not very good at that. Personally,I would have grabbed the dealers
shirt, pulled him close to me and first apologized, then I would have
whispered in his ear" If you ever speak to my son again in that manner,
I will drag you out of the show and beat you to a bloody pulp" My sons are
more important to me, then any damn coins. >>
werd!
<< <i>Guys (and gals),
The collector and his son did not cherry the guy, but they bought quality coins for a song. If he had told the guy off, chances are the well would have run dry. By patronizing the jerk, and making him think like he's getting the better of you (when it's the other way around), you have a place to go back to over and over again.
I am sure that you have watched poker tournmanents on TV. Many of the best players have one flaw - EGO. The thought of berating another inferior opponent is about as stupid as stupid gets. So what if that guy sucks you out (beats you on the last card) when he had no reason for playing. Over the long run, you want that guy there all day long, and you need to make him feel right at home.
The same is true with doing business. Check your ego at the door without getting dumped on. Make your statement by making money, and getting good deals.
------
By the way, this caustic behavior also goes the other way as well. Personally (and not that it matters), but the patrons of the show tend to be more annoying than the table holders. It is laughable to watch patrons engaged in over-the-top, and annoying haggling techniques. It used to bother me a lot, now I consider it comedy. The bottom line is that the good dealer knows how to deal with all sorts of customers, and they control the customer like a marionette. >>
----------
This only makes sense if you value money more then your childs feelings. I personly would have let the guy know what I think.
<< <i>This only makes sense if you value money more then your childs feelings. I personly would have let the guy know what I think. >>
Justme2,
Since I cannot PM you, I feel inclined to respond.
Did you read the following line in my other post?
- "FWIW, the man was a trained martial arts expert. His kid, now in his 30's, thinks it was a wonderful life lesson."
Your statement regarding putting profits over a child's feelings is not only incorrect; it's extremely short-sighted, and it is not a matter of opinion. I think that anyone with half a brain can see clearly that the money was not the primary motivating factor. It was the implicit vehicle that was used. If it was good enough for my friend and his son, that's really all that matters.
<< <i>I get it - after the additional clarification. >>
I still don't get it. A person with that much knowledge (the buyer in the story with the son) could likely have made almost as much money dealing with pleasant, polite, and gracious dealers as the rude one. If coins in the case were for sale, another dealer, or another collector, perhaps someone equally as obnoxious, could likely have bought the coins offered for a similar or even better price. The dealer (the obnoxious one) likely made good money on the sale, and would likely have been equally happy (business-wise) selling to another obnoxious and rude person at the same price.
I do understand the bit about poker and other games, but I am not sure how it applies at all to the story. If the other person thinks they are in control, that their subtle mind games are working, they are more likely to let their guard down. It is like when two pool hustlers play against each other, when neither knows that the other is also playing dumb.
I don't see the twist in the story where the buyer "puts one over" on the seller. Maybe I am just dense. Like I said, someone that knowledgeable about coins could have done business mostly with polite dealers and made similar money. As outlined I don't see how the seller lost anything. He priced his coins and sold them for a good profit. If another obnoxious person walked up and bought them, it would be the same end result for the dealer as the story told. If the coins were decent and the bourse at all busy, those coins would likely have been sold to someone else by the end of the show. I didn't see anything about getting a discount, or hard bargaining, or anything else. Maybe others can read between the lines because they know the inside game better, but I am missing it.
<< <i>
<< <i>This only makes sense if you value money more then your childs feelings. I personly would have let the guy know what I think. >>
Justme2,
Since I cannot PM you, I feel inclined to respond.
Did you read the following line in my other post?
- "FWIW, the man was a trained martial arts expert. His kid, now in his 30's, thinks it was a wonderful life lesson."
Your statement regarding putting profits over a child's feelings is not only incorrect; it's extremely short-sighted, and it is not a matter of opinion. I think that anyone with half a brain can see clearly that the money was not the primary motivating factor. It was the implicit vehicle that was used. If it was good enough for my friend and his son, that's really all that matters. >>
Buy the coin, show the jerk dealer the good purchase you just made off of him, then, Explain To Him his Mistake regarding your boy.
sometimes. A child expects a parent to come to his defense when he is being
unduly abused or chastised. I suppose, If I always thought things thru in a totally
logical manner, I would never have joined the Regular Army. It is a dangerous line
of work you know. Any way, to each his own and I can only speak for myself and do
not criticize how someone else might handle the situation in their own way.
Camelot
But you said the dealer took it to the point of "unacceptability" and then continued to verbally slap the customer's child around even after the father made him apoligize. As a man, a father, and a paying customer I wouldn't throw my kid under the bus for any amount of $$.
There's no need to get physical with the dispicable dealer. There's a happy medium between being a wimp and being a violent psycho. All it takes is looking the dealer in the eye like a man and saying "OK, that's enough, we get the point." At that time the dealer quits flapping his gums and starts dealing or the father & son move on, either way with their manhood and respect intact. THAT is being in control. A person that has to take unnecessary abuse to make a profit IS NOT in control of the situation.
<<<All I can to some of you is this: If you had even come within one inch of putting a hand on that guy, you would have found yourself in jail while spending thousands of dollars for a lawyer and on the wrong end of a lawsuit. This is not TV where in the show "Parenthood" some guy call's someone's autistic kid a "retard" and the father lays him out. This is real life, and it does not work that way.>>>
All I can say is this: Jail is an unpleasant place but you can't let people abuse you & your family because you're scared. You won't do hard time at the State Pen turning big rocks into little rocks over a fistfight anyway.
Seems to me the dealer had a better chance of feeling foolish for his inappropriate behavior if it was NOT mirrored back.
The rest of the story whether it was karma on a good pick or a philosophical life lesson that the kid learned doesn't stop the point that that dealer hurts himself, hurts the hobby, is a negative that will be remembered more than the positive attituded dealer.
This is not a case of bad publicity is good publicity. IMO, albeit harsh one, people like that who stand at the front of representation of the hobby should be brought up on like.... an un-ethical (lol roll eyes) charges and barred or fined like they do to athletes, lawyers, time outs for kids whatever. for his own good, for the sake of positive growth and so the guy thinks about the bigger picture rather than his little coin.
read my signature!
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<< <i>
<< <i>This only makes sense if you value money more then your childs feelings. I personly would have let the guy know what I think. >>
Justme2,
Since I cannot PM you, I feel inclined to respond.
Did you read the following line in my other post?
- "FWIW, the man was a trained martial arts expert. His kid, now in his 30's, thinks it was a wonderful life lesson."
Your statement regarding putting profits over a child's feelings is not only incorrect; it's extremely short-sighted, and it is not a matter of opinion. I think that anyone with half a brain can see clearly that the money was not the primary motivating factor. It was the implicit vehicle that was used. If it was good enough for my friend and his son, that's really all that matters. >>
I disagree with your "and it's not a matter of opinion". And I disagree with much of the rest of what you wrote above, as well.
It's great to hear that the son of our subject turned out so well and that it constituted an indelible life lesson. I entirely understand the implied moral of the original story. I disagree, however, with the characterizing of any of the other points of view as stupid or short-sighted. I doubt that any more than one or two participants on this board are psychopathic enough to escalate the situation to violence in reality.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>I have a similar story... At a recent coin show I asked to see a dealer's small stack of 1876-CC Trade dollars. Very caustically he said to me, "Don't worry, there ain't no double dies in that stack." (I really wanted an 1876-CC Trade dollar, I was not looking to cherrypick him.) OK, I said. Unbelievably, the second coin in the stack had a double die reverse!! I thought about correcting the dealer but instead I just bought the coin. He left about $1,000 on the table. >>
HA!
Just sayin'
<< <i>
<< <i>Geez, my misunderstanding. I was fully aware of bourse etiquette but thought the guy had implied consent for me to touch his precious inventory. Needless to say, after he grossly overreacted, I gingerly put the coin back down in his case and walked away. >>
"DON'T TOUCH MY JUNK!" >>
lordmarcovan was talking about coins