Got my first ever neutral feedback from an idiot newbie and ebay won't do anything
corvette1340
Posts: 3,384 ✭✭✭
Guy bought a NM - NM-MT '83 Topps set for $22. Sends me an email stating a few of the cards were missing. Ok, no biggie. I told him I'd ship them out to him the next day. I went through vending boxes and found the few missing cards and shipped them the next morning and he had them 2 days later. I also shipped another set he bought (MINT '84 Topps) for free to make up for the 2 days of missing '83 commons he had to endure. I also told him I'd refund his money if he wasn't satisfied. He said he was completely satisfied other than the couple of cards missing and all would be fine if I'd ship him those cards. Tonight I see that he's given me a neutral with the comment: "Set incomplete, seller took quick action to get me missing cards."
Buyer name is bergs20 and he has 15 total feedback. I sent him the revise feedback request stating that he should review the feedback policies and research as to how the feedback should be used. He immediately cancelled it.
I called ebay and they see that I've gotten almost 1000 positive feedback with 0 negs and 0 neutral over a 6 year period and have well over $100,000 in sales, 5 stars across the board, Top Rated Seller, Power Seller and they still won't do anything about this newbie leaving me neutral feedback. Ridiculous
Buyer name is bergs20 and he has 15 total feedback. I sent him the revise feedback request stating that he should review the feedback policies and research as to how the feedback should be used. He immediately cancelled it.
I called ebay and they see that I've gotten almost 1000 positive feedback with 0 negs and 0 neutral over a 6 year period and have well over $100,000 in sales, 5 stars across the board, Top Rated Seller, Power Seller and they still won't do anything about this newbie leaving me neutral feedback. Ridiculous
0
Comments
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>Does this blow your theory that offering good product and shipping timely gets all positive? You've stated the like several times when others have complained about the rating system. >>
yes, yes it does.
<< <i>
<< <i>Does this blow your theory that offering good product and shipping timely gets all positive? You've stated the like several times when others have complained about the rating system. >>
yes, yes it does. >>
It is a pretty screwed up system. Now try selling a lot of items under $10....you will have 10x the problems.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>
<< <i>Does this blow your theory that offering good product and shipping timely gets all positive? You've stated the like several times when others have complained about the rating system. >>
yes, yes it does. >>
//////////////////////////////////////
good, good for you.
...........................
bergs20 has been an EBAYer since April 1, 2004.
.......................
Giving free/extra stuff to solve a problem is often a mistake
on EBAY. It makes the seller appear weak and magnifies the
importance of the mistake.
The least labor intensive fix would prolly have been to offer the
AH a refund + ONLY the missing cards; IN exchange for a POS.
(Few sellers are as lazy as I am, so that remedy always seems
counterintuitive, but it is usually correct.)
It is nice to give nice folks and repeat buyers some "extra stuff,"
but when you are using kindness to "rehab" what amounts to a
busted deal with a stranger you will usually get the thanks you
deserve for being a fish/sucker/mark.
“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls
before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again
and rend you.”
vette got rended.
But, a Neut won't do any harm. It is DISGUSTING, tho.
.................................
chaz
<< <i>PSA Neutral
chaz >>
Maybe a 4.2 star rating?
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
But it wasn't a "good product" in the customer's mind - it was not a set as advertised and was missing some cards...and the customer had to go through the "aggravation" in his mind, to contact you and wait for other cards...something he wouldn't have had to do and all this wouldn't have happened if you would have taken the time to quickly look at each card in the set to make sure all the cards are there.
I'm not saying you deserved the neutral...just explaining it - I always try to view things in the customer's eyes. You can learn from the mistake by always checking all the cards whenever you're selling an opened set, or any card lot for that matter.
Tabe
i've seen this scam before.
<< <i>so you take out a few cards from the set THAT THE BUYER PAID FOR and then buy other sets on ebay and replace them with lesser condition cards......
i've seen this scam before. >>
From what I know about Corvette1340...I don't think he would risk his perfect feedback by shorting someone a handful of 1983 Topps cards!! Some people with questionable ethics do that. I think you are jumping to negative conclusion that is unfair. Mistakes happen. He made it right and the buyer said he was "completely satisfied". Maybe you should think a little bit before you start accusing someone of a scam!
<< <i>
<< <i>Does this blow your theory that offering good product and shipping timely gets all positive? You've stated the like several times when others have complained about the rating system. >>
yes, yes it does. >>
Wow, next thing you know you will quit doing auctions and only list BIN's in the future
<< <i>
<< <i>so you take out a few cards from the set THAT THE BUYER PAID FOR and then buy other sets on ebay and replace them with lesser condition cards......
i've seen this scam before. >>
From what I know about Corvette1340...I don't think he would risk his perfect feedback by shorting someone a handful of 1983 Topps cards!! Some people with questionable ethics do that. I think you are jumping to negative conclusion that is unfair. Mistakes happen. He made it right and the buyer said he was "completely satisfied". Maybe you should think a little bit before you start accusing someone of a scam! >>
Maybe PCL just worded it inappropriately. I initially read his post as "this is what the buyer might think" in a worst-case way, not an accusation of a fellow board member.
I'm sure some buyers might blindly get wooried by less than 100% feedback, but those buyers who know WTF they are doing will either not give a rip about the one hit, or will actually take the time to read the comment and realize everything was made right.
It's really a pretty damning indictment of the feedback system that a single blemish can send good sellers into such a tizzy. Any B&M business with one ding out of 1000 transactions would be jumping for joy.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
<< <i>so you take out a few cards from the set THAT THE BUYER PAID FOR and then buy other sets on ebay and replace them with lesser condition cards......
i've seen this scam before. >>
not sure how you mean this. If you are saying that I would take a few commons out of a NM to NM-MT '83 set and replace them with MINT ones from the '83 vending case that I just busted as some type of scam on my part then you fail. I've sold at least 15 sets for $2000 or more on ebay and had completely satisfied purchasers every time, and most of the time it's the set busters on ebay that buy them so it isn't just collectors. I've built a following and it's why my auctions garner a premium. That and the fact that my customer service is top notch. I've also completed hundreds of deals with board members on here and have never failed to do it with anything but honesty and integrity. I may be an ass, but I'm an honest ass.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Does this blow your theory that offering good product and shipping timely gets all positive? You've stated the like several times when others have complained about the rating system. >>
yes, yes it does. >>
Wow, next thing you know you will quit doing auctions and only list BIN's in the future >>
lol, yeah, I'm testing a little theory of mine against doing some BIN's with best offer. Initially I listed a PSA 6 Reggie Jackson Rookie at a BIN of $114.99. That was $35 less than any other BIN Reggie on the bay. I didn't get any offers for 5 days and then got ones for $66 and $76 respectively. VCP average is $97. I countered those offers and finally got one for $100, which I took (buyer hasn't paid yet).
I now have 4 sets on ebay with BIN or best offer , a '75, '76, '79, and '80. I got an offer of $79 for the '79 set (NM-MT - MINT from vending), I countered with $125. He came back with $100, I countered with $120. He counters with $123! WTF???? I took it! He hasn't paid yet, but I took the offer only a few minutes ago.
there was an issue and you quickly made it good..
you could be the seller that messes up and doesn't respond to emails, but the statement proves your not..
not sure if that impacts your discount or not though.. that would be a different story
1) Running through a 792 card set before it gets shipped out to make sure it's all there.
2) Dealing with a problem that was caused by not doing #1, and then dealing with the buyer and Ebay to have the consequences of your mistake erased, and posting the whole "ordeal" on a message board.
Since it was only a $22 set, at what $ value is it worth taking a few minutes to check out what you're shipping out?
A newbie with 15 feedback is just as entitled to get what he ordered without any issue and leave a neutral feedback as a 1000 feedback guy. If the transaction was error free I can understand going to Ebay and trying to get it removed. But going to Ebay knowing there was a problem with what you sold, and wanting all record of it removed because of his newbie status and you're a status as a Power seller with $100,000 in sales, is something Ebay should do nothing about.
On the 1979 set you just sold for $123, I bet you're going to double-check that one for completeness. It could save a lot of time and trouble.
He has been a member longer than the seller.
Having not followed prices of '83 sets I am sorry to see they are only worth twenty bucks now days!
I have some small listings on Ebay right now. Was going to Goodwill the stuff but decided to make a few bucks. Maybe I should not have bothered.
<< <i>The buyer is not a newbie.
He has been a member longer than the seller. >>
you are correct. I make hundreds of transactions on ebay every year and he makes less than 3. By "newbie" I meant inexperienced and having little knowledge of the acceptable feedback protocol, but as always, I think you probably knew that already. At least I hope you were smart enough to know that.
<< <i>
<< <i>The buyer is not a newbie.
He has been a member longer than the seller. >>
you are correct. I make hundreds of transactions on ebay every year and he makes less than 3. By "newbie" I meant inexperienced and having little knowledge of the acceptable feedback protocol, but as always, I think you probably knew that already. At least I hope you were smart enough to know that. >>
Not to step in the middle of an ongoing "thing", but I honestly don't see how the buyer didn't follow "Acceptable" feedback protocol.
He didn't neg you, he did a neutral, which (to me) means he wasn't completely happy but wasn't upset enough to neg you. IOW, exactly what the Neutral is for, IMO. Who knows? Maybe he wanted the set to give as a present and had to scramble since it wasn't initially complete.
As a buyer of raw to build my sets, I run into that dilemma all the time. If a seller overgrades and I return them for full credit, am I no longer allowed to feel negative about the transaction as a whole? Sure, I was made whole in terms of money/goods, but it still wasn't a flawless transaction, was it?
Again, I don't think the problem should be with what the buyer did. The problem is with the perceptions some people have of feedback, and how EBay treats sellers based on that. Not picking on you exactly, but sellers sometimes seem to have a sense of entitlement when it comes to feedback, like THEY get to decide how their customers are supposed to feel. The weight Ebay puts on feedback with their seller programs definitely contributes to that.
</ rant >
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
For all we know, the "buyer" could be a rival seller or
other troublemaker; many folks have MANY EBAY IDs.
The conduct of the "buyer" illustrates why many sellers
make little/no effort to fix problems. There is often not
a vote in it.
If a seller fixes an innocent mistake, he should get favorable
FB, or, at worst, no FB at all.
A postive aspect of this story is that the "buyer" won't be
pulling his carp on me.
<< <i>
<< <i>so you take out a few cards from the set THAT THE BUYER PAID FOR and then buy other sets on ebay and replace them with lesser condition cards......
i've seen this scam before. >>
not sure how you mean this. If you are saying that I would take a few commons out of a NM to NM-MT '83 set and replace them with MINT ones from the '83 vending case that I just busted as some type of scam on my part then you fail. I've sold at least 15 sets for $2000 or more on ebay and had completely satisfied purchasers every time, and most of the time it's the set busters on ebay that buy them so it isn't just collectors. I've built a following and it's why my auctions garner a premium. That and the fact that my customer service is top notch. I've also completed hundreds of deals with board members on here and have never failed to do it with anything but honesty and integrity. I may be an ass, but I'm an honest ass. >>
i was kidding obviously
to those of you who are saying the he got what he deserved, Karma is a biznitch.
Storm already mentioned it yesterday but of course you glossed over that.
Secondly you have no idea what he knows or does not know. Or at least I hope you are smart enough to know that.
<< <i>For all we know, the "buyer" could be a rival seller or other troublemaker; many folks have MANY EBAY IDs. >>
Edited* to include the word 'not'.
I only referred to the buyer as a newbie because the OP referred to the buyer as a newbie, and the OP's expectation that Ebay would remove the newbie's honest feedback simply because he was a Power Seller and wanted it removed.
<< <i>What takes longer?
1) Running through a 792 card set before it gets shipped out to make sure it's all there.
2) Dealing with a problem that was caused by not doing #1, and then dealing with the buyer and Ebay to have the consequences of your mistake erased, and posting the whole "ordeal" on a message board.
Since it was only a $22 set, at what $ value is it worth taking a few minutes to check out what you're shipping out?
A newbie with 15 feedback is just as entitled to get what he ordered without any issue and leave a neutral feedback as a 1000 feedback guy. If the transaction was error free I can understand going to Ebay and trying to get it removed. But going to Ebay knowing there was a problem with what you sold, and wanting all record of it removed because of his newbie status and you're a status as a Power seller with $100,000 in sales, is something Ebay should do nothing about.
On the 1979 set you just sold for $123, I bet you're going to double-check that one for completeness. It could save a lot of time and trouble. >>
I realize this is not what you meant, but it reminded me of the seller who said he makes $50 an hour and it took him 15 minutes to package the item so he ended up losing "big money" on the transaction.
I think eBay is a part-time job for most of us (and most part-time jobs fuel hobbies) so $7.50 to $8.00/hr is a good rate. Going through 792 cards couldn't take more than an extra 10-15 minutes, so no "big money" there.
You did what you do and nothing is 100%
to think that the buyer was a newbie that he wasn't and therefore would have the correct info
to go by.
<< <i>.
For all we know, the "buyer" could be a rival seller or
other troublemaker; many folks have MANY EBAY IDs.
The conduct of the "buyer" illustrates why many sellers
make little/no effort to fix problems. There is often not
a vote in it.
If a seller fixes an innocent mistake, he should get favorable
FB, or, at worst, no FB at all.
A postive aspect of this story is that the "buyer" won't be
pulling his carp on me. >>
I really respect your knowledge of the intricacies of EBay, and look forward to your posts on that stuff immensely. However, what would you guess the ratio is between "alts" designed solely to ding other sellers and regular, run of the mill buyers who don't "get" all the games and just post how they feel about the transaction?
That HAS to be far and away the biggest reason for 4's on shipping, etc. - not to nail a seller spitefully but to give an honest "feeling" about the transaction. The fact that the only grades sellers can tolerate thanks to the seller (dis)incentive programs is perfect or nothing is what is wrong here - NOT some infrequent buyer saying "he fixed it, so I guess it was sorta ok in the end". Thats all I see here.
Just my $.02
As for fixing an innocent mistake earning a seller a positive or no FB - if this were the intent of the feedback system, then there wouldn't even BE a neutral, would there? I know when I first joined Ebay, I saw neutral as "leaving no feedback" but no more nags about items needing feedback. Going back to my experience with overgraded raw, in your scenario I have no recourse to "alert" other buyers about an overgrader if he "fixes" the deal by refunding.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
<< <i>When all else fails mail him a pipe bomb! >>
Guess that wouldn't need DC, would it?
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
"...what would you guess the ratio is between "alts" designed solely to ding other sellers and regular, run of the mill buyers who don't "get" all the games and just post how they feel about the transaction?..."
Since there are about 100-million EBAYers, only a tiny fraction
of those are likely to fall into the "malicious" category. Obviously,
99%+ of NEGs come from folks acting in good faith as they see
the concept.
In used clothing categories, I attribute about 10% of my NEGs to
competitors. In designer fashion, that number is likely 25% or more.
"...not to nail a seller spitefully but to give an honest "feeling" about the transaction. The fact that the only grades sellers can tolerate thanks to the seller (dis)incentive programs is perfect or nothing is what is wrong here - NOT some infrequent buyer saying "he fixed it, so I guess it was sorta ok in the end". Thats all I see here...
Based on the facts, I don't disagree that the "buyer" here was
likely acting in good faith; tho he is an unreasonable ingrate. That
he could have been acting maliciously is possible, but unknown.
"...As for fixing an innocent mistake earning a seller a positive or no FB - if this were the intent of the feedback system, then there wouldn't even BE a neutral, would there? Going back to my experience with overgraded raw, in your scenario I have no recourse to "alert" other buyers about an overgrader if he "fixes" the deal by refunding."
Selling over graded cards is a totally different breach than is
accidentally leaving out a few cards in a junk set. It is good to
leave FB pointing out that a seller is a bad/corrupt grader.
Here, the seller did MORE than he should have to try to appease
a "buyer" who turned out to be either a petty ingrate, or a
malicious pile of trash.
...................................................................
In general, knowing how the FB system works, buyers should
save the use of NEGs and NEUTs for rude or dishonest sellers.
Doing otherwise, as I previously noted, discourages good sellers
from trying to satisfy buyers with legit complaints.
You made the transaction right...so move on. I wouldn't worry about it.
<< <i>Please tell me the few missing cards were not named Boggs, Gwynn and Sandberg...
You made the transaction right...so move on. I wouldn't worry about it. >>
lol, no they were commons and I replaced all of them but 1 with cards from my "to be sent to PSA/potential 10's pile of '83's" left from my vending case bust. This isn't a bad potential scam for people that want to be dishonest. Hell, he could have needed a few for another set he was building and just told me the ones he needed were left out.
I SHOULD have gone through the set to make sure it was complete, but I assumed it was since I bought it as a complete set in a set run I purchased and it was a $20-$25 set so I didn't bother. My fault for not making sure the set was complete, but I didn't deserve a neutral feedback for damn sure. I offered him his money back, sent cards asap, and went above and beyond on another purchase. Just petty feedback from someone that doesn't know any better or is a spiteful human, imo.
<< <i>Selling over graded cards is a totally different breach than is
accidentally leaving out a few cards in a junk set. It is good to
leave FB pointing out that a seller is a bad/corrupt grader.
Here, the seller did MORE than he should have to try to appease
a "buyer" who turned out to be either a petty ingrate, or a
malicious pile of trash.
...................................................................
In general, knowing how the FB system works, buyers should
save the use of NEGs and NEUTs for rude or dishonest sellers.
Doing otherwise, as I previously noted, discourages good sellers
from trying to satisfy buyers with legit complaints. >>
I understand and agree in theory with all of that. Except the overgrading part - yeah, there are a TON of intentional overgraders, and we all know some of the usual suspects. But, I'm convinced a lot of folks just don't know how to grade and let hope get in the way.
But here's my last (hopefully for everyone's sake) thought on it. If you have a B&M business, lukewarm or negative feedback from customers is often an opportunity. Here, it seems to be something to be frowned upon.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
<< <i>
<< <i>Please tell me the few missing cards were not named Boggs, Gwynn and Sandberg...
You made the transaction right...so move on. I wouldn't worry about it. >>
lol, no they were commons and I replaced all of them but 1 with cards from my "to be sent to PSA/potential 10's pile of '83's" left from my vending case bust. This isn't a bad potential scam for people that want to be dishonest. Hell, he could have needed a few for another set he was building and just told me the ones he needed were left out.
I SHOULD have gone through the set to make sure it was complete, but I assumed it was since I bought it as a complete set in a set run I purchased and it was a $20-$25 set so I didn't bother. My fault for not making sure the set was complete, but I didn't deserve a neutral feedback for damn sure. I offered him his money back, sent cards asap, and went above and beyond on another purchase. Just petty feedback from someone that doesn't know any better or is a spiteful human, imo. >>
No doubt you did everything short of buying him a car to make it right. My original point in all this was that one Neutral shouldn't be all that awful a thing to get. It happens in real life, so why shouldn't it happen on EBay?
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
<< <i>In all honesty, this seems like pretty much the exact situation neutrals are designed for. You (the seller) screwed up the product initially but fixed the problem. Sounds like a neutral transaction. Personally, I would have left a positive but I don't have a problem with the neutral either. And, yes, I realize Ebay doesn't always view neutrals the way they should.
Tabe >>
Well of course it's OK to get "neutral" feedback. You didn't deliver what you stated you would in the first shipment, and this inconvenienced the buyer.
Then to start a Message Board thread over such a deserved feedback remark? I don't understand this.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
Having a few commons missing and the seller instantly wants to make good on it is excellent customer service.
If a few of the stars were missing perhaps you go to a neutral but if it is a handfull of commons that are missing I don't think that is enough to ding a perfect feedback.
As for the comment about making $50 bucks and hour and losing money on the time, unless you are doing this for a living, the opportunity cost of money is irrelavent.
stupid neutrals:
1. Nice stein but some of the writing on it was crooked
2. it was ok
all they had to do was email and I would have made it right, but they felt neutral with no communication was the way to go , of course both are blocked from ever bidding again on any of my auctions. oh well. jmho
Part of why sellers get so crazy about this and become perfectionists is that bad feedback follows you around forever. At least in my case I was able to be 100% truthful in my posted response, and it actually kind of makes me look good in a way.
"shipped NEXT DAY, not my fault USPS is slow to PUERTO RICO, 1st neut/neg 12 YRS!"
In the follow-up to the positive I had already posted for him right after he paid, I wrote this: "posts uncalled for neutral/negative because USPS is slow to PUERTO RICO! HELLO??"
Everyone should put san_luis_36 in their banned bidder list.
I still hate that my feedback is no longer "perfect."
The "Diamond Sellers" get their FB washed clean every 90-days.
If they did not, nobody would buy anything from most of them.
Samples:
one
two
three
four
five