What does it take for you to blindly trust a dealer?
airplanenut
Posts: 22,332 ✭✭✭✭✭
Today's thread on Angel Dee's got me thinking. I've heard nothing but praise of them, seen their inventory (which is outstanding) at shows, but still hear something in the back of my head when it comes to buying "blindly," that is, with just their word. I can't pinpoint it, but something makes me feel just a bit uncomfortable, though I'm quite sure that feeling is unfounded.
So thinking about it more, I was thinking about the few dealers whom I would trust completely blind. The ones where I could ask for something, or they could point out something in their inventory, and just on their word, without a picture (even a low quality one) to give me a better idea or some visual assurance, I would feel comfortable buying. I think it has to do with how much business we've done and my confidence not only in their material, but also their knowledge of what particularly I'm looking for. Maybe it's also just the personal relationship that's formed outside of run-ins just when it comes time to buy or sell.
So for you, what does it take to simply blindly go for a coin? A friend's word? 10 years of consistent sales?
And yes, I know that coins come with returns, but I hate returning things without an established relationship. When I know a dealer, if something isn't quite right, I feel I can explain the problem and it will help both of us know what to look for in the future. When it's the first transaction, it feels a bit different, in that perhaps I'll just be seen as picky (I am) and it will hinder future deals.
So thinking about it more, I was thinking about the few dealers whom I would trust completely blind. The ones where I could ask for something, or they could point out something in their inventory, and just on their word, without a picture (even a low quality one) to give me a better idea or some visual assurance, I would feel comfortable buying. I think it has to do with how much business we've done and my confidence not only in their material, but also their knowledge of what particularly I'm looking for. Maybe it's also just the personal relationship that's formed outside of run-ins just when it comes time to buy or sell.
So for you, what does it take to simply blindly go for a coin? A friend's word? 10 years of consistent sales?
And yes, I know that coins come with returns, but I hate returning things without an established relationship. When I know a dealer, if something isn't quite right, I feel I can explain the problem and it will help both of us know what to look for in the future. When it's the first transaction, it feels a bit different, in that perhaps I'll just be seen as picky (I am) and it will hinder future deals.
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Comments
Ken
In answer to the question posed - I think it takes 1) implicit trust in the person to be straight with you AND 2) the knowledge that he or she is perfectly attuned to your collecting preferences, likes, dislikes, requirements, demands, etc. Having just one of those attributes isn't even close to enough. Both are absolutely necessary.
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There are a couple of collectors whose opinions on their series I would take without question.
--Jerry
You answered your own question perfectly, Jeremy. I couldn't more.
Lance.
An act of God!. Other than that I only trust my own eyes.
Blindly trusting a dealer would be total foolishness.
Not blind trust, but there are several dealers that I would (and have) buy coins from on their word that the coin is good, so long as I have a return privilege.
Lots of folks here say that do not blindly trust a dealer, but essentially place their faith in low quality Heritage, Teletrade, or ebay photos regularly, without a return privilege, yet would not trust the opinion of a well-respected dealer without photos but with a reasonable return privilege. The disconnect makes no sense to me.
<< <i>Doesn't happen and IMO it is foolish to blindly trust anyone.
Ken >>
My feeling entirely also.
<< <i>
<< <i>Doesn't happen and IMO it is foolish to blindly trust anyone.
Ken >>
My feeling entirely also. >>
Would you feel the same if the words "collector-seller you were friendly (and had done multiple transactions) with" were substituted for "dealer"?
As a side note; I've yet to have issue with the descriptions I've gotten from WTCG. And have never had to return a coin I've bought from him.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Doesn't happen and IMO it is foolish to blindly trust anyone.
Ken >>
My feeling entirely also. >>
Would you feel the same if the words "collector-seller you were friendly (and had done multiple transactions) with" were substituted for "dealer"? >>
No , not a bit.Anyone out to sell me something is out to make a profit is how i see it.Thats fair enough,however profits often come before friendships so i like to keep things honest and trust no one implicitly.It doesn't mean i don't like them,it just means i want to see what the deal is before agreeing , seems fairly straightforward good business sense.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Doesn't happen and IMO it is foolish to blindly trust anyone.
Ken >>
My feeling entirely also. >>
Would you feel the same if the words "collector-seller you were friendly (and had done multiple transactions) with" were substituted for "dealer"? >>
No , not a bit.Anyone out to sell me something is out to make a profit is how i see it.Thats fair enough,however profits often come before friendships so i like to keep things honest and trust no one implicitly.It doesn't mean i don't like them,it just means i want to see what the deal is before agreeing , seems fairly straightforward good business sense. >>
Thanks for your reply.
Reagan used to like to say "Trust but verify". I concur.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
You get what you inspect....not what you expect.
It is nice when my opinion coincides exactly with other dealer's opinions who I highly value. For newbies that don't have any expertise in grading they essentially have to blindly trust their dealer when it comes to the value of a coin in the holder.
roadrunner
<< <i>Trust in the dealer's eyes and trust in the dealer's integrity are two very separate issues. They should be discussed accordingly. >>
Very true. On rare occasions they converge.
<< <i>
<< <i>Trust in the dealer's eyes and trust in the dealer's integrity are two very separate issues. They should be discussed accordingly. >>
Very true. On rare occasions they converge. >>
Your anecdotal experiences with class national dealers are not typical. While freely conceding that scamsters and rip-offs occur, there are hundreds of dealers you can get a return guarantee from. Their eye? Their intention? So what, if you've got a return.
As for the credit check on Andy Skrabalak on another thread. can't a search be done on his name?
I trust 4 or 5 dealers implicitly, but wouldn't buy a coin without seeing good pics first. Why? First, don't want to waste his or my time and money shipping back and forth sight unseen. Second, there are many great coins with great pics available. Third, I can't describe what I like, but I know it when I see it. This doesn't bode well for sight unseen transactions.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Trust in the dealer's eyes and trust in the dealer's integrity are two very separate issues. They should be discussed accordingly. >>
Very true. On rare occasions they converge. >>
Your anecdotal experiences with class national dealers are not typical. While freely conceding that scamsters and rip-offs occur, there are hundreds of dealers you can get a return guarantee from. Their eye? Their intention? So what, if you've got a return.
As for the credit check on Andy Skrabalak on another thread. can't a search be done on his name? >>
I wasn't referring to my own experiences, I was merely commenting on Mr. Eureka's remark. They are two separate issues, a dealers eye and the dealer's integrity.
As far as Andy is concerned, I would not hesitate in the least to buy a coin from him.
Edited to add, I agree completely with you if you have a return guarantee there's little risk with most national dealers. I'm at a loss to understand how you found any "anecdotal experiences" in what I posted there Colonel...
I'm one of those guys who place more faith in the Grading Companies.
John
Never view my other linked pages. They aren't coin related.
RYK - thanks - I needed a good laugh.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so when I buy, my eyes are the final arbiter.
I knew it would happen.
I started with small purchases with each and from the beginning found them to be men of their word that were interested in getting me the best coin for my money, whatever the amount was.
Collecting:
Conder tokens
19th & 20th Century coins from Great Britain and the Realm
Menomonee Falls Wisconsin USA
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistr...dset.aspx?s=68269&ac=1">Musky 1861 Mint Set
and can quickly be broken by either or both parties.There
are a number of dealers that I trust, but I still have to like the
coin.The only people that I have or had blind trust in were my
beloved departed parents and my lovely and wonderful wife, Mrs Bear.
Camelot
The pudding as proof is that of 26 coins just submitted for Secure Plus, all but one of his got an upgrade and most became pop 1's.
Thruth be told it happened recently. A monster Oregon came out of hiding and Gregg B knew it was exactly what I wanted down to the lustre, color, grade and mintmark. He also knew the coin wouldn't last an hour so he grabbed it for me out of the dealers inventory and long story short and I should have it soon. I would be shocked if this coin didn't blow me a way.
I've also used Mark Feld in the past at auction with great results and trust him. Same with Laura Sperber.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I trust everybody once...not twice >>
took the words outa my mouth. I was going to say, Once burned, twice shy. I view relationships with sellers that over the long run, it is their loss not mine, to start off not so well.
<< <i>What does it take for you to blindly trust a dealer >>
A fifth of Jack Daniels.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>If guys like Gregg Bingham, Larry Shepherd who helped me form my collection tell me theres a coin for me out there I listen....................... odds are I'm whipping out a checkbook.
Thruth be told it happened recently. A monster Oregon came out of hiding and Gregg B knew it was exactly what I wanted down to the lustre, color, grade and mintmark. He also knew the coin wouldn't last an hour so he grabbed it for me out of the dealers inventory and long story short and I should have it soon. I would be shocked if this coin didn't blow me a way.
I've also used Mark Feld in the past at auction with great results and trust him. Same with Laura Sperber.
MJ >>
MJ, I don't know if my heart can take anymore of your monster coins and you are touting this one sight unseen. I better order some nitro tabs.
Ron
Blindly and trust are incompatable terms
Trusting is learned process and trust in individuals integrity is an earned process
There are a number of people some of whom are dealers whose integrity I have learned not to question.There are many others who have either not earned my trust or have earned distrust.
This is entirely separate from blindly accepting a dealer or a collectors coin judgment.
Trusting someone else's coin judgement requires confidence that their skill level is lofty and your and their tastes resonate.
Best not to go blindly into coin selection.
That experience makes me very hesitant to use people to view coins for me in auctions that I cannot attend lot viewing. The return issue is not quite so easy if you don't like the coin.
On the plus side, I did have a very good relationship with Win Callendar when he worked at David Lawrence. He would tell me to pass on 90%+ of their inventory, and I always liked what he did recommend. A straight shooter with a good eye.
merse
There are some dealers I would trust with my money and my coins and there are those that I trust to grade-
two separate issues
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
This could be a long discussion, Jeremy.
One time, I had dealer leave the shop with coins and said he would pay when sold on eBay.
I was blindly trusting him. The next correspondence was brutal because I called it a 'couple ounces of silver, but no, it was "1.44 ASW"... blah blah" It's been months. I pray for him, blindly trusting.