We were invincible! A look back to the investment mania days
Stone193
Posts: 24,489 ✭✭✭✭✭
Preface:
Haven't written anything in some time - thought I would share a letter I found in a folder and have those who have been collecting 20 or more years a moment of reflection. And to the more recent collectors - a chance to have a feel for what went on around 1990 or so.
We were invincible! Much like the Titanic....
My metaphoric analogy – though hyperbole – is meant to parallel a similar mindset. The Titanic is kind of a post-apocalyptic product of the industrial revolution and exemplifies the folly in thinking they/we “can” do anything as though we were invincible.
“We” were invincible – like the Titanic.
I guess you know where I’m going. Around 1990 – the card market exploded – and there was a concomitant inflation of all cards. The chase was on – people all over the US tried to corner the market on anything and everything! We were invincible. Professionals – with disposable income – started buying up cases of 1990 Donruss – thinking they would fund their retirement home on oceanfront property. The rookie card mania caught fire and guys like the Meyer Bros. were selling ‘bricks’ of new rookies guaranteed to insure financial independence. We were invincible.
And, the producers responded with all kinds of market driven items like pogs, beanie babies, SLU’s…just to name a few. People paid 2, 3, 4, 5 times retail for packs of new stuff – like the 92F jumbos with rookie sensation cards – a Frank Thomas might set ya back 60 clams – now? A buck? We were invincible.
And now, to the letter I found – that I scanned for your amusement. Superior Sportcard Inc. – headed up by Greg Bussineau was a very successful seller of graded cards and ran auctions. I really like Greg and found him to be a nice guy to deal with. Superior is now Legacysportsrarities on ebay I believe.
As you can see, the letter guarantees that you will double your money! But, more importantly, IMO, it corrupted the hobby in such a way that has been almost irreparable.
We were invincible.
Well, it’s now 2011 and we all know – that ship sailed and sunk. There were numerous “corrections” and the hobby had to adjust. I don’t need to beat a dead horse with 100 examples – since I know I’m preaching to the choir. But, for the younger/newer collectors, this may be ancient history?
I’ve learned so much in my 30+ yrs of collecting. The key thing is that – the more I learn – the more I realize I know very little. I’ve learned some simple rules to the road – like knowledge is power – having a “focus” and “budget” may insure sheer gratification and prevent being disillusioned with the hobby.
If we were in focus groups – I’m sure we could spends many, many hours discussing this. Bring out the “war stories” – and gain closure. There are some people who’ve invested very large sums of money – only to see the hobby change and their “investment” in time and money with it.
Making lemonade – we still have something tangible that we can look at and enjoy – regardless of what the depreciation is – there’s some fun memories attached to our collectibles – which would be hard to enumerate.
If we just enjoy the hobby – collect what we “like” – maintain a focus and budget – and not get so serious – we “will” have fun – and in that sense – we “are” invincible!
Happy Collecting – and Holidays.
Haven't written anything in some time - thought I would share a letter I found in a folder and have those who have been collecting 20 or more years a moment of reflection. And to the more recent collectors - a chance to have a feel for what went on around 1990 or so.
We were invincible! Much like the Titanic....
My metaphoric analogy – though hyperbole – is meant to parallel a similar mindset. The Titanic is kind of a post-apocalyptic product of the industrial revolution and exemplifies the folly in thinking they/we “can” do anything as though we were invincible.
“We” were invincible – like the Titanic.
I guess you know where I’m going. Around 1990 – the card market exploded – and there was a concomitant inflation of all cards. The chase was on – people all over the US tried to corner the market on anything and everything! We were invincible. Professionals – with disposable income – started buying up cases of 1990 Donruss – thinking they would fund their retirement home on oceanfront property. The rookie card mania caught fire and guys like the Meyer Bros. were selling ‘bricks’ of new rookies guaranteed to insure financial independence. We were invincible.
And, the producers responded with all kinds of market driven items like pogs, beanie babies, SLU’s…just to name a few. People paid 2, 3, 4, 5 times retail for packs of new stuff – like the 92F jumbos with rookie sensation cards – a Frank Thomas might set ya back 60 clams – now? A buck? We were invincible.
And now, to the letter I found – that I scanned for your amusement. Superior Sportcard Inc. – headed up by Greg Bussineau was a very successful seller of graded cards and ran auctions. I really like Greg and found him to be a nice guy to deal with. Superior is now Legacysportsrarities on ebay I believe.
As you can see, the letter guarantees that you will double your money! But, more importantly, IMO, it corrupted the hobby in such a way that has been almost irreparable.
We were invincible.
Well, it’s now 2011 and we all know – that ship sailed and sunk. There were numerous “corrections” and the hobby had to adjust. I don’t need to beat a dead horse with 100 examples – since I know I’m preaching to the choir. But, for the younger/newer collectors, this may be ancient history?
I’ve learned so much in my 30+ yrs of collecting. The key thing is that – the more I learn – the more I realize I know very little. I’ve learned some simple rules to the road – like knowledge is power – having a “focus” and “budget” may insure sheer gratification and prevent being disillusioned with the hobby.
If we were in focus groups – I’m sure we could spends many, many hours discussing this. Bring out the “war stories” – and gain closure. There are some people who’ve invested very large sums of money – only to see the hobby change and their “investment” in time and money with it.
Making lemonade – we still have something tangible that we can look at and enjoy – regardless of what the depreciation is – there’s some fun memories attached to our collectibles – which would be hard to enumerate.
If we just enjoy the hobby – collect what we “like” – maintain a focus and budget – and not get so serious – we “will” have fun – and in that sense – we “are” invincible!
Happy Collecting – and Holidays.
Mike
0
Comments
Anybody know the ten?
Bosox1976
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Robert
I hate to sell them cheap, because I really think he could make a comeback.
<< <i>Has anyone tried either of those phone numbers? >>
Joey - his operation is now located in Traverse City, MI.
<< <i>Anybody know the ten? >>
Mike - I didn't subscribe - but it would be cool to see what he recommended. I don't do biz with them any more - I did buy one card from them off ebay - it would be cool to call him and ask for a copy of the report - just for grins!
Merry Christmas
Once they get that big diamond/star thing in the CCP guide that means they are hot, then I'll know it's time.
as someone that will see the big 4-0 in 2011, i can certainly appreciate this
WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
Here is an excerpt from an article published online around July 2009:
Greg Bussineau founded Superior Sportcard in 1982 and Superior Sports Auctions in 1996. Superior Sports Auctions was purchased by Collectors Universe (parent company of PSA) in 1999, upon agreement that Bussineau would stay on and run the company for three years. At the end of this agreement, Greg Bussineau decided to go back into business for himself and formed Legacy Sports Rarities in 2002. Greg Bussineau has bought and sold virtually every major important sportscard ever produced. For example, in 1987 he bought and sold the world’s finest known T206 Honus Wagner card. More recently, this famous Copeland-Gretzky-Gidwitz-Siegel example, graded NM-MT 8 by PSA, sold for close to $3,000,000. In addition, under his management, Superior companies have bought and sold all three of the 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle cards graded Gem Mint 10 by PSA. He has been instrumental in helping to assemble some of the greatest sportscard collections in history, including the James Copeland, Marshall Fogel, Charles Merkel, David Hall (founder of PSA), and Donald Spence collections. He was also chosen to auction off the personal memorabilia collection of basketball Hall-of-Famer Bill Sharman, as well as the personal sportscard collection of PSA founder David Hall. Bussineau was one of three people who helped to formulate the grading standards employed by PSA - the world’s largest independent third-party grading service. Over the years, Greg Bussineau has accumulated a blue-chip client list of close to 4,000 collectors. He’s enjoyed ongoing business relationships with numerous clients for decades. Virtually every major buyer or seller of important sportscards is a Legacy customer.
I'll make a "Guarantee" that is sure to be correct. I'm serious...I "Guarantee" it. "All prices in SMR are irrelevant." Is anything in the SMR based upon fact?
There was so much optimism in the 90's. I miss getting those thick, 200+ page SCD's. Superior Sportscards always had these cool ads. There were some big bargains in '97....like Mint 9 pre WWII hof'ers. I think superior auctioned off a mint 9 bill russell rookie in 95 or 96, for $5,000? Or something absurdly low. If you invested in some of their early psa 9 auctions, you'd have made a fortune.
-We were invincible...
A. Because everything was untainted. Pre Tiger Woods scandal. Pre everything basically. Jordan gambling on golf was about the biggest "scandal" of the 90's. Remember his 91 upper deck card?
B. There was plenty of momentum from the 80's boom. People thought the 90's were going to be the next 80's. Thus, Frank Thomas rookie sensations hitting $60.
C. There was so much variety. You could retire on....either 1990 Pro Set Eric Dickerson's. Or beanie babys. Or vintage. Or those Frank Thomas rookie sensations. There was some company that advertised in scd and other card publications, with the headline "card sharks", showing a shark. Remember that? They'd advertise 90 pro set eric dickerson's and santa clause cards. There were a lot of fun advertisers then. Texas Sportscard company? What happened to all of them?
If they damaged or lost your card would they pay you VCP or SMR?
Exactly.
Im glad that the only cards I was into in 1990 were "raw" T, E, D, M, N, W, R, V, and F cards, and I still am.
I read Lipsets "Old Judge" newsletter and his Encyclopedia till they fell apart, and many auction catalogs/inserts with prices written in (I still have hundreds).
I missed all the Frank Thomas#2 no name, Barry Bonds w/Johnny Ray photo, Griffey Jr. Rookie hype, not paying attention or even knowing about it until many years later.
I have never held or even touched a card made after about 1985 that I can remember... seriously
I do remember the day all those Tango Egg cards were discovered in 1991-92 Era though, that was the hype I was into.
PS. I hated slabbed cards back then, and still somewhat do.... but now I just dislike the high grade slab investors and registry addicts (pseudocollectors) .....and know that many of them will not be in this hobby 10-20 years from now.
reminds of the stock news letters that(still) come around..or " what penny stock will double next?"
anyone Remember the GILDER report? JDSU baby!
I buy from greg through heritage...no complaints here
When I think of the $$$ that when flittering away. Oh well, ya gots to go the Hell before you get to Heaven.
Any word on his comeback?
How could we have thought anything would be valuable/rare when you could buy wax boxes at Costco?
"Molon Labe"
<< <i>I think SMR prices are low because PSA uses this as a guide to payout for insurance claims.
If they damaged or lost your card would they pay you VCP or SMR?
Exactly. >>
I'm submitting commons due to my registry addiction. SMR is fine by me, tyvm.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
<< <i>I do remember the hype similar to what was written in the letter...
Im glad that the only cards I was into in 1990 were "raw" T, E, D, M, N, W, R, V, and F cards, and I still am.
I read Lipsets "Old Judge" newsletter and his Encyclopedia till they fell apart, and many auction catalogs/inserts with prices written in (I still have hundreds).
I missed all the Frank Thomas#2 no name, Barry Bonds w/Johnny Ray photo, Griffey Jr. Rookie hype, not paying attention or even knowing about it until many years later.
I have never held or even touched a card made after about 1985 that I can remember... seriously
I do remember the day all those Tango Egg cards were discovered in 1991-92 Era though, that was the hype I was into.
PS. I hated slabbed cards back then, and still somewhat do.... but now I just dislike the high grade slab investors and registry addicts (pseudocollectors) .....and know that many of them will not be in this hobby 10-20 years from now. >>
Ah, here we go! Someone trots out the old "what I collect is great and what you collect sucks"
So, because myself or someone else has registry sets and actively tries to complete them that makes us not true collectors? That is what you mean by calling those collectors "psuedocollectors".
And how do YOU know that me or anyone else wont be in the hobby in a decade or two? What great insight, other than your overblown opinion, leads you to believe that? How do you know you will be in the hobby in that time?
If it is all the same to you, ill collect what I like, you collect what I like, and we can go on about our business. I wont disparage your choice of collecting (old tobacco cards arent my thing) and would appreciate the same in response.
It seems that although I can appreciate and feel good for someone who gets a card that they like (regardless of my like/dislike of their choices) you cant.
http://www.youtube.com/user/dzolot
Thanks for watching. Hope you enjoyed!!
- I would encourage all collectors to post a video of their collection - I have found it to be a very rewarding way to share my sports cards!!
www.questfortherookiecup.com
<< <i>The days when 2-3 card shows every Saturday and/or Sunday JUST in your immediate area....
When I think of the $$$ that when flittering away. Oh well, ya gots to go the Hell before you get to Heaven. >>
yup. ya gotta plan it correctly.....let's see i think i'll hit the Holiday Inn first and then the racetrack and after that, the one over at the local church.....if i still have time, i can get back over the hill to the other show at Best Western.
dang, these notebooks are heavy.
Uh, no.
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>
<< <i>The days when 2-3 card shows every Saturday and/or Sunday JUST in your immediate area....
When I think of the $$$ that when flittering away. Oh well, ya gots to go the Hell before you get to Heaven. >>
yup. ya gotta plan it correctly.....let's see i think i'll hit the Holiday Inn first and then the racetrack and after that, the one over at the local church.....if i still have time, i can get back over the hill to the other show at Best Western.
dang, these notebooks are heavy. >>
Even with the pure investors from those days understandably gone, it is still difficult for me to comprehend how the hobby has declined as much as it has to there being so few shows left. Baseball is still as popular as ever (with record-setting attendance figures in MLB), and knowing how the love of baseball naturally translates into a love for collecting, why is the hobby hurting so badly? Just sitting down to watch an hour of "Baseball Seasons" on the MLB network makes me want to go out and buy/collect more cards from those years.
<< <i>Even with the pure investors from those days understandably gone, it is still difficult for me to comprehend how the hobby has declined as much as it has to there being so few shows left. Baseball is still as popular as ever (with record-setting attendance figures in MLB), and knowing how the love of baseball naturally translates into a love for collecting, why is the hobby hurting so badly? Just sitting down to watch an hour of "Baseball Seasons" on the MLB network makes me want to go out and buy/collect more cards from those years. >>
Ebay killed the shows, IMO. People don't interact in person anymore, they interact online. I don't personally feel that way, but why go haggle with a guy who you don't know when you can just bid online in peace and relative security?
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
<< <i>You are certainly correct that the internet is a huge part of the decline in card shows, but often with weekend shows it was about fathers/sons attending for some bonding time and enjoying the hobby together. You just don't see that anymore...what happened? >>
I blame weekend soccer leagues.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
----------------------
Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
Also at card shows you can sub cards and get autos if that's your thing and even "gasp" trade with dealers. All things Ebay doesn't let you do.
<< <i>The days when 2-3 card shows every Saturday and/or Sunday JUST in your immediate area....
When I think of the $$$ that when flittering away. Oh well, ya gots to go the Hell before you get to Heaven. >>
Or when there were card shops everywhere. I was just pointing out to me wife as we drove around today where my favorite card shops used to be. Thank goodness Mitchell's BBCs in Beaverton (OR) is still around. I stopped by there to see if they had the last '62 Topps card I need, but they didn't. <subliminal message>sell me your NM #200 Elston Howard</subliminal message>
<< <i>I remember those heady days of collecting, I stopped buying when I turned 17 in 1988 but always followed baseball. I can also recall about 10 years ago the Ken Griffey Donruss '89 was "worth" $1650.00 in PSA10 because the pop was so low. Wow. Seems a lifetime ago, now. On a different tangent, does anyone have any info on the "Copeland-Gretzky-Gidwitz-Siegel example"?, I have never heard of that card or sale and am interested to see what it is, I did a quick google search and came up with nothing but the same text that was quoted in the earlier post from the guys webpage. >>
DR - I kept a file on the card - not sure if this is totally accurate - but I'm pretty such it's close - if anyone has anything different - please chime in:
1. 1985: Sold privately for $25,000 (from Alan Ray to Bill Mastro of Mastronet Auctions)
2. 1987: Sold privately for $110,000 (from Bill Mastro to James Copeland)
3. 1991 - Gretzky and Kings owner McNall buy the card for 451K. They have it graded by PSA - card #1 - lands an 8. It goes on exhibition at the 1992 National in Atlanta. I was fortunate to see it back then.
I met Mike Baker there - he was very friendly and immensely well informed.
4. 1994 - McNall goes bankrupt and Gretzky buys out his half for 225K
5. 1994 - Gretzky sells the card to Treat Entertainment who does a repack Walmart promotion to raffle the card off. It sold for over 500K.
6. The contest ends with the drawing - live - on the Larry King Show. Patricia Gibbs is the winner.
7. 1996 - Gibbs puts the card up at Christies and Michael Gidwitz buys the card for 640K.
8. 2000 - Gidwitz unloads it to Brian Siegel for 1.2 million.
9. In February 2007, the Associated Press announced that Seigel had sold the card privately & directly to an anonymous collector from Southern California for $2.35 million.
10. Less than 6 mos later, on Sep 6th, SCP Auctions announced that the card had been sold – once again – to another anonymous collector for $2.8 million.
Always looking for Mantle cards such as Stahl Meyer, 1954 Dan Dee, 1959 Bazooka, 1960 Post, 1952 Star Cal Decal, 1952 Tip Top Bread Labels, 1953-54 Briggs Meat, and other Topps, Bowman, and oddball Mantles.
Silver Coins
e-bay ID: grilloj39
e-mail: grilloj39@gmail.com
Always looking for Mantle cards such as Stahl Meyer, 1954 Dan Dee, 1959 Bazooka, 1960 Post, 1952 Star Cal Decal, 1952 Tip Top Bread Labels, 1953-54 Briggs Meat, and other Topps, Bowman, and oddball Mantles.
<< <i>Many thanks, Stone! Is this just a really good example of a Gretzky rookie or is this the Wagner? I thought the way it was phrased in the description it was some previously unseen Gretzky rookie card or somesuch. Thanks very much. >>
Hi DR
I inferred from your post that you were speaking of the PSA 8 Wagner - based on some of the names.
BTW - I've bought stuff from Gidwitz - he's very nice - and after the first order, he then sent me stuff before receiving funds.
We all know there's "history" behind the Wagner - but I did get to see it at the National in 1992 when it was first slabbed - and it's a very nice card. Trimmed? Sheet cut? Who knows - and if the hobby wasn't so anal about that kind of stuff - it would be irrevelant since it's the nicest example of the card I've ever seen.
For me, worrying about a sheet cut card is like worrying about the fact that someone else might have tapped my date before I did.
(my inferrence here is that I don't care "who" cut the darn thing)
Merry Christmas!
<< <i>Baseball Card Investment Report? >>
Thanx for sharing David!
Yes, I do. I wish I could've talked my wife into giving me the "go" on some of the tough cards like the 52T Mantle - she thought that was an obscene amt of money! I could've afforded the Mantle back then.
Merry Christmas.
<< <i>
(my inferrence here is that I don't care "who" cut the darn thing)
/q]
A mint PSA 9 Mantle would go for $500,000 I think and it was $5,000 in mint in the mag!!
Nice recomendation!
Not all cards advertised would get a Mint 9 grade but I know for fact some would. In 1987 you did not have the massive number of fakes on the market either.
A mint card had razor sharp corners and centering was not as big of deal. Either way we know Mantle cards went up!!!
Jose Canseco was hot at the time, his cards went down!
If one good thing came out of TPGs? Stricter grading - I believe.
IMO, a throwback to that era? Pologrounds.
I think they are still around.