Congrats to the Phillies - possibly the best rotation since the 70's Orioles.
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you have to envy lee, the guy turned down an extra 50 million from ny!!!! i bet they were quite pleased when the stuff about the fans treatment of his wife came out.
all the reports i read are that philly was in, but the money race was between ny and boston, where were the freakin rangers!!!!! they were talking like front runners.
so let me get this straight.....Cliffy is packing in the FreakyFlyer miles while changing unis every 5 months and earning a periodic raise which means that by early July, assuming the Phils are wallowing at the .500 level because Werth ain't around to hit key dingers (you'll see), he'll be packing his gear for Texas(?), because what-the-heck, he's already got a shirt from last year which pretty much matches this year, but wait.....the Rangers are about to be mathimatically eliminated on Aug. 24th because Ron Washington accidently put his, um, medication in the Gatorade and the team stopped hitting, so off to BOSTON he goes on Aug. 31 about 12 seconds before the waiver wire officially shuts down and he becomes their closer for the remainder of the season when that other guy who used to stare out at guys from under his cap suddenly develops Spaghetti Arm, and Francona has a meltdown until Youkilis tells him that playing baseball is great but watching his manager cry sucks.
then Lee serves up the Winning Dinger to Aramis Ramirez in Game 7 at Wrigley, Ramirez' first hit of THE ENTIRE SEASON and the Cubs finally win it all.
<< <i>so let me get this straight.....Cliffy is packing in the FreakyFlyer miles while changing unis every 5 months and earning a periodic raise which means that by early July, assuming the Phils are wallowing at the .500 level because Werth ain't around to hit key dingers (you'll see), he'll be packing his gear for Texas(?), because what-the-heck, he's already got a shirt from last year which pretty much matches this year, but wait.....the Rangers are about to be mathimatically eliminated on Aug. 24th because Ron Washington accidently put his, um, medication in the Gatorade and the team stopped hitting, so off to BOSTON he goes on Aug. 31 about 12 seconds before the waiver wire officially shuts down and he becomes their closer for the remainder of the season when that other guy who used to stare out at guys from under his cap suddenly develops Spaghetti Arm, and Francona has a meltdown until Youkilis tells him that playing baseball is great but watching his manager cry sucks.
then Lee serves up the Winning Dinger to Aramis Ramirez in Game 7 at Wrigley, Ramirez' first hit of THE ENTIRE SEASON and the Cubs finally win it all.
yeah, i could see this all happening. >>
You had me until the words "Game 7 at Wrigley" which everyone knows will never happen.
<< <i>so let me get this straight.....Cliffy is packing in the FreakyFlyer miles while changing unis every 5 months and earning a periodic raise which means that by early July, assuming the Phils are wallowing at the .500 level because Werth ain't around to hit key dingers (you'll see), he'll be packing his gear for Texas(?), because what-the-heck, he's already got a shirt from last year which pretty much matches this year, but wait.....the Rangers are about to be mathimatically eliminated on Aug. 24th because Ron Washington accidently put his, um, medication in the Gatorade and the team stopped hitting, so off to BOSTON he goes on Aug. 31 about 12 seconds before the waiver wire officially shuts down and he becomes their closer for the remainder of the season when that other guy who used to stare out at guys from under his cap suddenly develops Spaghetti Arm, and Francona has a meltdown until Youkilis tells him that playing baseball is great but watching his manager cry sucks.
then Lee serves up the Winning Dinger to Aramis Ramirez in Game 7 at Wrigley, Ramirez' first hit of THE ENTIRE SEASON and the Cubs finally win it all.
yeah, i could see this all happening. >>
You had me until the words "Game 7 at Wrigley" which everyone knows will never happen. >>
<< <i>Instead the NL version got him. Not much better. >>
I could not care less who gets or got him.
Baseball needs a salary cap!
Players should not make more than Obama.
And it's not even debatable.
Then and only then can the average monkey earning 50k a year (before taxes) spend a day at the ballpark and not have to spend his entire after taxes paycheck on a hotdog.
Seriously, I agree with all of that, but it's not going to change unless the bottom falls out of the economy and a few teams go belly up. Right now, teams are making money, players are making money, fans are showing up, and ratings are good.
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Quite unfair the "comments" about Philly with the spending.
We didn't start it, New York did, and then Boston.....
...Phillies were just tired of getting walked on, and decided to do something about it...and oh my goodness how the New York fans now don't like the competition for players...they had it all to themselves and horror upon horrors, now they have to share. Well too bad, so sad.
<< <i>Thank God the Yankees didn't get him. chaz >>
Instead the NL version got him. Not much better. >>
Give us a break... can't compare the two.... chaz >>
You can't? Last I checked, over the past 18 months or so, they've forked out a couple hundred million dollars for two players. If Washington hadn't signed Werth, I'm sure Philly would've pulled a Jeter and overpaid. And, no, I'm not a fan of the Yankees.
<< <i>Thank God the Yankees didn't get him. chaz >>
Instead the NL version got him. Not much better. >>
Give us a break... can't compare the two.... chaz >>
You can't?
Halladay Lee Oswalt Hamels Howard Utley Rollins Ibanez Victorino
Some home grown talent, but a lot of purchased talent as well. Seems like a fair comparison. Probably not "to scale"...but a fair comparison nonetheless.
<< <i>Instead the NL version got him. Not much better. >>
I could not care less who gets or got him.
Baseball needs a salary cap!
Players should not make more than Obama.
And it's not even debatable.
Then and only then can the average monkey earning 50k a year (before taxes) spend a day at the ballpark and not have to spend his entire after taxes paycheck on a hotdog.
Steve >>
mlb average salary is over 3 mill for the first time ever...
<< <i>Thank God the Yankees didn't get him. chaz >>
Instead the NL version got him. Not much better. >>
Give us a break... can't compare the two.... chaz >>
You can't? Last I checked, over the past 18 months or so, they've forked out a couple hundred million dollars for two players. If Washington hadn't signed Werth, I'm sure Philly would've pulled a Jeter and overpaid. And, no, I'm not a fan of the Yankees. >>
Again, give me a break, the Yankees would have let go that pig Werth???? chaz
<< <i>Thank God the Yankees didn't get him. chaz >>
Instead the NL version got him. Not much better. >>
Give us a break... can't compare the two.... chaz >>
You can't?
Halladay Lee Oswalt Hamels Howard Utley Rollins Ibanez Victorino
Some home grown talent, but a lot of purchased talent as well. Seems like a fair comparison. Probably not "to scale"...but a fair comparison nonetheless. >>
Do your numbers, it's not even close..Yankees are the pigs of baseball....chaz
PSA 1, Chaz. You need to admit Philly is a tad below the Yanks and Red Sox when it comes to the game of buying championships. Admit that, and I'll bump you up to a PSA 3 (OC)
<< <i>PSA 1, Chaz. You need to admit Philly is a tad below the Yanks and Red Sox when it comes to the game of buying championships. Admit that, and I'll bump you up to a PSA 3 (OC)
Again, do your numbers, it's not even close..Yankees are the pigs of baseball....chaz
<< <i>You mean to tell me the Indians weren't in the running, I'm shocked!! >>
The Indians are a farm team. They trained many future studs... Cliff Lee... C.C. Sabathia... Manny Ramirez... Jim Thome... Victor Martinez... Brian Giles (THAT'S RIGHT, BRIAN FREAKING GILES!)...
They trained all of them, and received NOTHING in trade.
"Do your numbers, it's not even close..Yankees are the pigs of baseball....chaz "
Looks close to me in a lot of areas - the Phils are buying wins just like the Yanks. It's a smart move - spend a lot of money and build a great franchise and, big surprise, the team becomes both successful and profitable. One piece missing for comparison is the Phillies equivalent of Arod. They had Rolen and paid him a ton, same with Burrell. Jeter throws it off a bit, but we'll see how much Philly pays Rollins when he becomes a free agent after next year.
Lee (24M), Oswalt (15M), Hamels (7M), Moyer (6.5M), Madsen (3M?)
CC (23M), Burnett (16M), Pettitte (12M), Vasquez (8M?), Hughes (500K)
<< <i>"Do your numbers, it's not even close..Yankees are the pigs of baseball....chaz "
Looks close to me in a lot of areas - the Phils are buying wins just like the Yanks. It's a smart move - spend a lot of money and build a great franchise and, big surprise, the team becomes both successful and profitable. One piece missing for comparison is the Phillies equivalent of Arod. They had Rolen and paid him a ton, same with Burrell. Jeter throws it off a bit, but we'll see how much Philly pays Rollins when he becomes a free agent after next year.
Lee (24M), Oswalt (15M), Hamels (7M), Moyer (6.5M), Madsen (3M?)
CC (23M), Burnett (16M), Pettitte (12M), Vasquez (8M?), Hughes (500K)
Howard (25M), Utley (14M), Rollins (8M)
Tex (23M), Cano (12M), Jeter (17M) >>
It really chaps my ass when people say the Yanks (even though the Sawx catch a pass on it) buy wins. Spending a lot of money didnt help them when they brought on Giambi and that run from 2001-2008 did it. You can throw money at a player but the players make a difference. From a baseball standpoint the biggest effect that the Yanks, Sox, Phills have is that they can eat a bad contract. Washington cant and etc. all They play by the rules in which the sport is played. Would I love to see a salary cap? Yep, and I am a Yankee fan. But without a salary floor there is no good having a cap. Make Pittsburg spend money they get from the Yankees. Make Florida spend the money.
The Yanks have built a winner with just as much, if not more, from the farm as they have through free agency. Posada, Jeter, Pettitte, Rivera, Cano, Hughes, Joba, Gardner. They traded a home grown talent in Soriano to help get A-Cod and his first contract (stoopidly gave him the second) They have traded prospects for players as well. Yes, they have went out and gotten Tex, CC, Burnett (how did that turn out) Pavano (again, great pick-up) but they have not just gone out and bought a damn team. And anyone who argues different most likely is doing it to be obtuse.
So to Chaz, how would you change it/ What would you do to make the game better?
Philly - 2011 (so far) - appx $158M (depending on the actual breakdown of Lee's contract (unreleased as of now) you can probably add at least $20M to that as I suspect his contract will have a slight backload to it.) Yanks - 2011 (so far) - appx $177M (not counting Pettitte) so when he resigns they're back to around at least $190M
btw the Astros are paying for appx $7M of Oswalt's contract for 2011.
The better comp for Philly is Boston. The Yanks will still be around at least $200M by the time spring training rolls around and they sign a couple relievers and/or trade for a SP like Carlos Zambrano or something that would put them right back to $210M. $40-$50M more in payroll is still a large discrepancy. The difference is, aside from overpaying for Ryan Howard by about $5-7M per year, there are no bad contracts on the Phillies (unless you count the couple mill they threw at Danys Baez last year, or Ibanez which would be debatable). They spend their money, and they spend it wisely.
<< <i>Thank God the Yankees didn't get him. chaz >>
Instead the NL version got him. Not much better. >>
Give us a break... can't compare the two.... chaz >>
You can't? Last I checked, over the past 18 months or so, they've forked out a couple hundred million dollars for two players. If Washington hadn't signed Werth, I'm sure Philly would've pulled a Jeter and overpaid. And, no, I'm not a fan of the Yankees. >>
Maybe I'm getting old but since when did a 65% discrepancy become "close"?
And yes, know I'm replying to a 2+ month old post.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>All I know is the Phillies have a great team. 4 AS starters. And some mean arse bats. >>
Any opinions out there as to how this 2011 team would fare against, say, the 1975-76 Reds? Been having an interesting and friendly 'debate' with someone who thinks the Phillies with the Halladay/Lee/Oswalt/Hamels rotation would defeat those Reds teams. I say the the Big Red Machine with its offensive power and experience would still prevail, even though it's difficult and sometimes unfair to compare different eras.
I don't think the Big Red Machine of 75-76 could stay with the modern Phillies. It may be close for a few innings but it is relief pitching not the starters that would make the difference. I think the Phillies would break open a close game in the later innings. Reds can still feel proud as they are mostly in their 60s and not as athletic as they were and Sparky is not there to lead them, plus the Commissioner probably wouldn't let Pete play. If a magic wand could bring back Sparky and Pete played then it would probably be a "pick em."
<< <i>I don't think the Big Red Machine of 75-76 could stay with the modern Phillies. It may be close for a few innings but it is relief pitching not the starters that would make the difference. I think the Phillies would break open a close game in the later innings. Reds can still feel proud as they are mostly in their 60s and not as athletic as they were and Sparky is not there to lead them, plus the Commissioner probably wouldn't let Pete play. If a magic wand could bring back Sparky and Pete played then it would probably be a "pick em." >>
I'll assume you were kidding on the part regarding the Reds still trying to compete in their 60's..lol. Clearly I was referring to a head-to-head comparison between both teams in their respective prime.
2. Is it the beginning of the end for Howard? (not being combative to SteveK on this...just a realistic happening soon)
3. I think there are some concerns with their offense. Their outfield of Ibanez, Victorino, and Francisco(or the rookie), really isn't that impressive. As a group, with Ibanez turning 39(and showing it last year)...they will be looking at an OPS+ somewhere around 105 as a group...just a little better than league average. It could get worse, as Ibanez realistically could hit the skids hard.
Their third baseman has had an OPS+ of 90, and 95 each of hte last two seasons, and is 35 years old. Rollins has been a bad hitter the last two years, and isn't getting any younger.
As bad as a contract as it was, the loss of Werth is a big hole for their offense. He carried them while Utley and Howard went backwards.
Utley and Howard will need to do a 180 in order for this offense to be close to what it was...and then hope the rest of it doesn't go even more backwards.
Their pitching is out of this world, but they are only a sore arm or two away from falling well below expectations as a team, because unless Utley and Howad come up huge, their pitching is going to have to do most of the work.
In regards to the Big Red Machine: They outscored their opponents 840-586 in 1975, and 857 -633 in 1976. They also won 108 and 102 games those years and won the World Seris both of those years.
The Phillies last year outscored their opponent 772-640, which is great, but not quite Big Red Machine territory.
DoctorK
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all the reports i read are that philly was in, but the money race was between ny and boston, where were the freakin rangers!!!!! they were talking like front runners.
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<< <i>Thank God the Yankees didn't get him. >>
+1
then Lee serves up the Winning Dinger to Aramis Ramirez in Game 7 at Wrigley, Ramirez' first hit of THE ENTIRE SEASON and the Cubs finally win it all.
yeah, i could see this all happening.
<< <i>Thank God the Yankees didn't get him. chaz >>
Instead the NL version got him. Not much better.
<< <i>so let me get this straight.....Cliffy is packing in the FreakyFlyer miles while changing unis every 5 months and earning a periodic raise which means that by early July, assuming the Phils are wallowing at the .500 level because Werth ain't around to hit key dingers (you'll see), he'll be packing his gear for Texas(?), because what-the-heck, he's already got a shirt from last year which pretty much matches this year, but wait.....the Rangers are about to be mathimatically eliminated on Aug. 24th because Ron Washington accidently put his, um, medication in the Gatorade and the team stopped hitting, so off to BOSTON he goes on Aug. 31 about 12 seconds before the waiver wire officially shuts down and he becomes their closer for the remainder of the season when that other guy who used to stare out at guys from under his cap suddenly develops Spaghetti Arm, and Francona has a meltdown until Youkilis tells him that playing baseball is great but watching his manager cry sucks.
then Lee serves up the Winning Dinger to Aramis Ramirez in Game 7 at Wrigley, Ramirez' first hit of THE ENTIRE SEASON and the Cubs finally win it all.
yeah, i could see this all happening.
You had me until the words "Game 7 at Wrigley" which everyone knows will never happen.
<< <i>
<< <i>so let me get this straight.....Cliffy is packing in the FreakyFlyer miles while changing unis every 5 months and earning a periodic raise which means that by early July, assuming the Phils are wallowing at the .500 level because Werth ain't around to hit key dingers (you'll see), he'll be packing his gear for Texas(?), because what-the-heck, he's already got a shirt from last year which pretty much matches this year, but wait.....the Rangers are about to be mathimatically eliminated on Aug. 24th because Ron Washington accidently put his, um, medication in the Gatorade and the team stopped hitting, so off to BOSTON he goes on Aug. 31 about 12 seconds before the waiver wire officially shuts down and he becomes their closer for the remainder of the season when that other guy who used to stare out at guys from under his cap suddenly develops Spaghetti Arm, and Francona has a meltdown until Youkilis tells him that playing baseball is great but watching his manager cry sucks.
then Lee serves up the Winning Dinger to Aramis Ramirez in Game 7 at Wrigley, Ramirez' first hit of THE ENTIRE SEASON and the Cubs finally win it all.
yeah, i could see this all happening.
You had me until the words "Game 7 at Wrigley" which everyone knows will never happen. >>
go wreck your own fantasy.
<< <i>Instead the NL version got him. Not much better. >>
I could not care less who gets or got him.
Baseball needs a salary cap!
Players should not make more than Obama.
And it's not even debatable.
Then and only then can the average monkey earning 50k a year (before taxes)
spend a day at the ballpark and not have to spend his entire after taxes paycheck on a hotdog.
Steve
<< <i>
Players should not make more than Obama.
>>
To quote Babe Ruth, "He had a better year".
Seriously, I agree with all of that, but it's not going to change unless the bottom falls out of the economy and a few teams go belly up. Right now, teams are making money, players are making money, fans are showing up, and ratings are good.
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We didn't start it, New York did, and then Boston.....
...Phillies were just tired of getting walked on, and decided to do something about it...and oh my goodness how the New York fans now don't like the competition for players...they had it all to themselves and horror upon horrors, now they have to share. Well too bad, so sad.
Get used to it - Philly is here to stay!
It always comes back to NY.
NY this, NY that,
You should be happy NY started it Steve, this way your team is forced to pay players what THEY feel they are worth.
Or your team could be like other teams and simply lose year after year and pocket all that revenue sharing dollars.
It is what it is, but please, stop with the excuses. Your team wants to win and to win you gotta pay up.
<< <i>
<< <i>Thank God the Yankees didn't get him. chaz >>
Instead the NL version got him. Not much better. >>
Give us a break... can't compare the two.... chaz
<< <i>Typical hypocrite.
It always comes back to NY.
NY this, NY that,
You should be happy NY started it Steve, this way your team is forced to pay players what THEY feel they are worth.
Or your team could be like other teams and simply lose year after year and pocket all that revenue sharing dollars.
It is what it is, but please, stop with the excuses. Your team wants to win and to win you gotta pay up. >>
It's pathetic the Yankees started this....chaz
<< <i>
Players should not make more than Obama.
>>
Really????
The president should not be the highest paid person. He works for the public. Private sector has and always should be able to pay more.
So much for free markets. I know plenty of people who make more the than President. I can only hope your comment was made to be funny.
Shawn
Josh Wilker - Cardboard Gods
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Thank God the Yankees didn't get him. chaz >>
Instead the NL version got him. Not much better. >>
Give us a break... can't compare the two.... chaz >>
You can't? Last I checked, over the past 18 months or so, they've forked out a couple hundred million dollars for two players. If Washington hadn't signed Werth, I'm sure Philly would've pulled a Jeter and overpaid. And, no, I'm not a fan of the Yankees.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Thank God the Yankees didn't get him. chaz >>
Instead the NL version got him. Not much better. >>
Give us a break... can't compare the two.... chaz >>
You can't?
Halladay
Lee
Oswalt
Hamels
Howard
Utley
Rollins
Ibanez
Victorino
Some home grown talent, but a lot of purchased talent as well. Seems like a fair comparison. Probably not "to scale"...but a fair comparison nonetheless.
"Molon Labe"
<< <i>I hope Cliff Lee can hit, cuz the Phillies offense stunk in the playoffs. >>
Cliff Lee didn't pitch well in the WS. 0-2 with an ERA close to 7.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>
<< <i>Instead the NL version got him. Not much better. >>
I could not care less who gets or got him.
Baseball needs a salary cap!
Players should not make more than Obama.
And it's not even debatable.
Then and only then can the average monkey earning 50k a year (before taxes)
spend a day at the ballpark and not have to spend his entire after taxes paycheck on a hotdog.
Steve >>
mlb average salary is over 3 mill for the first time ever...
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Thank God the Yankees didn't get him. chaz >>
Instead the NL version got him. Not much better. >>
Give us a break... can't compare the two.... chaz >>
You can't? Last I checked, over the past 18 months or so, they've forked out a couple hundred million dollars for two players. If Washington hadn't signed Werth, I'm sure Philly would've pulled a Jeter and overpaid. And, no, I'm not a fan of the Yankees. >>
Again, give me a break, the Yankees would have let go that pig Werth???? chaz
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Thank God the Yankees didn't get him. chaz >>
Instead the NL version got him. Not much better. >>
Give us a break... can't compare the two.... chaz >>
You can't?
Halladay
Lee
Oswalt
Hamels
Howard
Utley
Rollins
Ibanez
Victorino
Some home grown talent, but a lot of purchased talent as well. Seems like a fair comparison. Probably not "to scale"...but a fair comparison nonetheless. >>
Do your numbers, it's not even close..Yankees are the pigs of baseball....chaz
Heh
<< <i>PSA 1, Chaz. You need to admit Philly is a tad below the Yanks and Red Sox when it comes to the game of buying championships. Admit that, and I'll bump you up to a PSA 3 (OC)
Again, do your numbers, it's not even close..Yankees are the pigs of baseball....chaz
Heh >>
<< <i>Typical hypocrite.
It always comes back to NY.
NY this, NY that,
You should be happy NY started it Steve, this way your team is forced to pay players what THEY feel they are worth.
Or your team could be like other teams and simply lose year after year and pocket all that revenue sharing dollars.
It is what it is, but please, stop with the excuses. Your team wants to win and to win you gotta pay up. >>
Ah what the yell, it's only money.
<< <i>You mean to tell me the Indians weren't in the running, I'm shocked!!
The Indians are a farm team. They trained many future studs... Cliff Lee... C.C. Sabathia... Manny Ramirez... Jim Thome... Victor Martinez... Brian Giles (THAT'S RIGHT, BRIAN FREAKING GILES!)...
They trained all of them, and received NOTHING in trade.
Looks close to me in a lot of areas - the Phils are buying wins just like the Yanks. It's a smart move - spend a lot of money and build a great franchise and, big surprise, the team becomes both successful and profitable. One piece missing for comparison is the Phillies equivalent of Arod. They had Rolen and paid him a ton, same with Burrell. Jeter throws it off a bit, but we'll see how much Philly pays Rollins when he becomes a free agent after next year.
Lee (24M), Oswalt (15M), Hamels (7M), Moyer (6.5M), Madsen (3M?)
CC (23M), Burnett (16M), Pettitte (12M), Vasquez (8M?), Hughes (500K)
Howard (25M), Utley (14M), Rollins (8M)
Tex (23M), Cano (12M), Jeter (17M)
<< <i>"Do your numbers, it's not even close..Yankees are the pigs of baseball....chaz "
Looks close to me in a lot of areas - the Phils are buying wins just like the Yanks. It's a smart move - spend a lot of money and build a great franchise and, big surprise, the team becomes both successful and profitable. One piece missing for comparison is the Phillies equivalent of Arod. They had Rolen and paid him a ton, same with Burrell. Jeter throws it off a bit, but we'll see how much Philly pays Rollins when he becomes a free agent after next year.
Lee (24M), Oswalt (15M), Hamels (7M), Moyer (6.5M), Madsen (3M?)
CC (23M), Burnett (16M), Pettitte (12M), Vasquez (8M?), Hughes (500K)
Howard (25M), Utley (14M), Rollins (8M)
Tex (23M), Cano (12M), Jeter (17M) >>
It really chaps my ass when people say the Yanks (even though the Sawx catch a pass on it) buy wins. Spending a lot of money didnt help them when they brought on Giambi and that run from 2001-2008 did it. You can throw money at a player but the players make a difference. From a baseball standpoint the biggest effect that the Yanks, Sox, Phills have is that they can eat a bad contract. Washington cant and etc. all
They play by the rules in which the sport is played. Would I love to see a salary cap? Yep, and I am a Yankee fan. But without a salary floor there is no good having a cap. Make Pittsburg spend money they get from the Yankees. Make Florida spend the money.
The Yanks have built a winner with just as much, if not more, from the farm as they have through free agency. Posada, Jeter, Pettitte, Rivera, Cano, Hughes, Joba, Gardner.
They traded a home grown talent in Soriano to help get A-Cod and his first contract (stoopidly gave him the second) They have traded prospects for players as well. Yes, they have went out and gotten Tex, CC, Burnett (how did that turn out) Pavano (again, great pick-up) but they have not just gone out and bought a damn team. And anyone who argues different most likely is doing it to be obtuse.
So to Chaz, how would you change it/ What would you do to make the game better?
Philly - 2011 (so far) - appx $158M (depending on the actual breakdown of Lee's contract (unreleased as of now) you can probably add at least $20M to that as I suspect his contract will have a slight backload to it.)
Yanks - 2011 (so far) - appx $177M (not counting Pettitte) so when he resigns they're back to around at least $190M
btw the Astros are paying for appx $7M of Oswalt's contract for 2011.
Philly - 2010: $138,178,379M
Yanks - 2010: $213,359,389M
The better comp for Philly is Boston. The Yanks will still be around at least $200M by the time spring training rolls around and they sign a couple relievers and/or trade for a SP like Carlos Zambrano or something that would put them right back to $210M. $40-$50M more in payroll is still a large discrepancy. The difference is, aside from overpaying for Ryan Howard by about $5-7M per year, there are no bad contracts on the Phillies (unless you count the couple mill they threw at Danys Baez last year, or Ibanez which would be debatable). They spend their money, and they spend it wisely.
<< <i> Looks close to me in a lot of areas
Philly - 2010: $138,178,379M
Yanks - 2010: $213,359,389M
>>
that ain't so close
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Thank God the Yankees didn't get him. chaz >>
Instead the NL version got him. Not much better. >>
Give us a break... can't compare the two.... chaz >>
You can't? Last I checked, over the past 18 months or so, they've forked out a couple hundred million dollars for two players. If Washington hadn't signed Werth, I'm sure Philly would've pulled a Jeter and overpaid. And, no, I'm not a fan of the Yankees. >>
GheyNote strikes again with some hate
LOL
DB
<< <i>
<< <i> Looks close to me in a lot of areas
Philly - 2010: $138,178,379M
Yanks - 2010: $213,359,389M
>>
that ain't so close >>
Maybe I'm getting old but since when did a 65% discrepancy become "close"?
And yes, know I'm replying to a 2+ month old post.
Why all the whining about payroll? geez you think that this is something new.
It's been going on since 1876.
<< <i>All I know is the Phillies have a great team. 4 AS starters. And some mean arse bats.
Why all the whining about payroll? geez you think that this is something new.
It's been going on since 1876. >>
<<< since 1876 >>>
Since the founding of our country - my oh my that is a long time.
<< <i>All I know is the Phillies have a great team. 4 AS starters. And some mean arse bats. >>
Any opinions out there as to how this 2011 team would fare against, say, the 1975-76 Reds? Been having an interesting and friendly 'debate' with someone who thinks the Phillies with the Halladay/Lee/Oswalt/Hamels rotation would defeat those Reds teams. I say the the Big Red Machine with its offensive power and experience would still prevail, even though it's difficult and sometimes unfair to compare different eras.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
<< <i>Since the founding of our country - my oh my that is a long time. >>
Appears someone could use a refresher course in American history, that or some glasses.
<< <i>I don't think the Big Red Machine of 75-76 could stay with the modern Phillies. It may be close for a few innings but it is relief pitching not the starters that would make the difference. I think the Phillies would break open a close game in the later innings. Reds can still feel proud as they are mostly in their 60s and not as athletic as they were and Sparky is not there to lead them, plus the Commissioner probably wouldn't let Pete play. If a magic wand could bring back Sparky and Pete played then it would probably be a "pick em." >>
I'll assume you were kidding on the part regarding the Reds still trying to compete in their 60's..lol. Clearly I was referring to a head-to-head comparison between both teams in their respective prime.
What are the realistic concerns?
1. Chase Utley's knee
2. Is it the beginning of the end for Howard? (not being combative to SteveK on this...just a realistic happening soon)
3. I think there are some concerns with their offense. Their outfield of Ibanez, Victorino, and Francisco(or the rookie), really isn't that impressive. As a group, with Ibanez turning 39(and showing it last year)...they will be looking at an OPS+ somewhere around 105 as a group...just a little better than league average. It could get worse, as Ibanez realistically could hit the skids hard.
Their third baseman has had an OPS+ of 90, and 95 each of hte last two seasons, and is 35 years old. Rollins has been a bad hitter the last two years, and isn't getting any younger.
As bad as a contract as it was, the loss of Werth is a big hole for their offense. He carried them while Utley and Howard went backwards.
Utley and Howard will need to do a 180 in order for this offense to be close to what it was...and then hope the rest of it doesn't go even more backwards.
Their pitching is out of this world, but they are only a sore arm or two away from falling well below expectations as a team, because unless Utley and Howad come up huge, their pitching is going to have to do most of the work.
In regards to the Big Red Machine: They outscored their opponents 840-586 in 1975, and 857 -633 in 1976. They also won 108 and 102 games those years and won the World Seris both of those years.
The Phillies last year outscored their opponent 772-640, which is great, but not quite Big Red Machine territory.
<< <i>
<< <i>Since the founding of our country - my oh my that is a long time. >>
Appears someone could use a refresher course in American history, that or some glasses.
Steve, CU is full of Historians and Constitutional scholars. Where have you been?