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Restoring sports cards?

If I were to consider restoring a vintage card to give it better eye appeal in my personal collection, where could I go to have the job done (other than waverly, lol)?

I've heard that rounded corners and paper loss can be built back up, color can be added, or of course the card can be trimmed a bit to make it sharp looking.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance,

Patrick

Comments

  • zep33zep33 Posts: 6,915 ✭✭✭
    IN
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭


    << <i>IN >>



    Why do you say "in" ?

    The thread should not be locked or go poof. PSA grades altered vintage cards.

    The card I am speaking of is in my personal collection and I would like it to have it cleaned up for display purposes.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,067 ✭✭✭


    << <i>PSA grades altered vintage cards >>



    Do they!?!?! I have seen some for sale by 707, but I didn't think us mere mortals could get them graded. I had a Hank Arron rookie card that I wanted slabbed that got returned unslabbed back from PSA (Hunt Auctions said it was trimmed, but I still thought they would slab it due to the importance of the card). I ended up sending it to SGC and they slabbed it (they have a box on their order form you can check if you want ungradable cards in an "A" holder).
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭
    A lot of vintage comic books are restored...I understand restoration actually in most cases decreases the value of the card.

    I've read where rice paper can be used to build up, fix a tear, or even attach paper to the card (for instance, connecting corners and sides of one card to another).
  • zep33zep33 Posts: 6,915 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>IN >>



    Why do you say "in" ?

    The thread should not be locked or go poof. PSA grades altered vintage cards.

    The card I am speaking of is in my personal collection and I would like it to have it cleaned up for display purposes. >>



    A couple of years ago, there was a thread or 2 about soaking cards that quickly went the way of the woolly mammoth. I'm thinking this one won't be around for long either

  • AUPTAUPT Posts: 810 ✭✭✭
    Dick Towle is the card restoration expert. His work was featured in SCD two or three years ago (you can google Gone Wioth the Stain). His contact information at that time was: [email protected] or phone: (315) 375-8542.
  • remind me never to buy anything from MULLINGS

    SKY
    The Sky Pilot

    image


  • << <i>remind me never to buy anything from MULLINGS

    SKY >>



    imageimageimage
    Actually Collect Non Sport, but am just so full of myself I post all over the place !!!!!!!


  • << <i>Dick Towle is the card restoration expert. His work was featured in SCD two or three years ago (you can google Gone Wioth the Stain). His contact information at that time was: [email protected] or phone: (315) 375-8542. >>



    You can check, but I am not sure Dick does Restoring of cards per se. I know he does removal of anything from a Card. As an experiment a couple of years ago I sent him two 33 Goudeys that were MINT looking but had graded out by PSA as Good 2 because they had some sort of candy all over the back of them. When I got them back you couldn't tell that the Candy had ever been there, even under a times 10 loupe, but this is where it gets good, PSA could still tell, they came back a Good 2 and Good+ 2.5 the second time!

    Neil
    Actually Collect Non Sport, but am just so full of myself I post all over the place !!!!!!!
  • Give Mullins a break. He asked a legitimate question. It isn't my sort of thing, but maybe he has a sentimental card that was given to him by a close relative that passed that got damaged and he wanted to restore it to display. Or some other legitimate sentimental reason. Heck, I've got an old book that was given to me by my grandfather when I was 4 that I wrote in as a little kid. It's the only thing I still have from him, since he passed away in 1978. If I had some money to spare, would I love to have it cleaned up and get my stupid pen marks out of it? You betcha!
    To answer your question Mullins, I have no idea who would do this sort of thing. But, since you mentioned comic books, wouldn't a person that does comic books be able to do cards? It is still paper and recoloring and all.
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  • A really cool trick that I've come up with is to use a black sharpie on the edges and corners of cards.

    Of course, it only works with black bordered cards. I tried it with a 87 Topps Pete Incavaglia rookie and it just looked ridiculous


  • << <i>Dick Towle is the card restoration expert.

    << <i>

    image
    'Sir, I realize it's been difficult for you to sleep at night without your EX/MT 1977 Topps Tom Seaver, but I swear to you that you'll get it safe and sound.'
    -CDs Nuts, 1/20/14

    *1956 Topps baseball- 97.4% complete, 7.24 GPA
    *Clemente basic set: 85.0% complete, 7.89 GPA
  • jeffcbayjeffcbay Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭
    I like to see cards stay in their natural state. In my opinion, you're not doing the card any favors by trying to restore it. I would rather have a vintage card that looks like it was used for card toss, rather than a card that was trimmed or recolored.

  • Restoring cards is bad, bad for the hobby and bad for people who don't like being ripped off.
  • larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 5,992 ✭✭✭
    I like to see cards stay in their natural state. In my opinion, you're not doing the card any favors by trying to restore it. I would rather have a vintage card that looks like it was used for card toss, rather than a card that was trimmed or recolored.


    +1
  • thunderdanthunderdan Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Dick Towle is the card restoration expert. >>



    With a name like that, he ought to launching his own underwear line. A lot more money in that than restoring baseball cards.

    At some point you would think he would get sick of the jokes and just go by Richard. lol.
    image


  • jimradjimrad Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Dick Towle is the card restoration expert. >>



    With a name like that, he ought to launching his own underwear line. A lot more money in that than restoring baseball cards.

    At some point you would think he would get sick of the jokes and just go by Richard. lol. >>



    Thanks Dan..........i absolutelyimageimagefor a full minute before I could type this reply
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  • Dick Towle is just his professional name.

    He was born Schlomo Edenstein, but he thought it sounded too ethnic for the world of sportscard resotoration.
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭
    Good info thanks so far guys.

    The card I'm considering having restored is a recent eBay win, Bobby Hull rookie, which is known for being terribly off center.

    The card is a beater with what appears to be paper loss, very rounded corners, and of course, OC.

    I contacted a paper restorer about the possibility of adding pulp to the right edge and then cutting it to be centered. I asked if it can be done and if so if he could provide an estimate. Bleaching and adding color would be in order as well.

    If the price is crazy I'll have to abandon the idea for now.

    Interestingly, my girlfriend is familiar with the process as she has taken classes at the rare book school at her university, but I don't quite trust her to work on this card image

    Here is a link to the guy's website eclipsepaper like the idea of restoring or not, you can't deny his work is amazing!
  • wow his work on the comic book is impressive... for those attempting to knock Mullins he's a good guy who I've worked with in the past.

    I see nothing wrong with these techniques if you are looking to do something for your own collection. Obviously PSA should/does have the expertise to spot alterations.
    image
  • larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 5,992 ✭✭✭
    Good info thanks so far guys.

    The card I'm considering having restored is a recent eBay win, Bobby Hull rookie, which is known for being terribly off center.

    The card is a beater with what appears to be paper loss, very rounded corners, and of course, OC.

    I contacted a paper restorer about the possibility of adding pulp to the right edge and then cutting it to be centered. I asked if it can be done and if so if he could provide an estimate. Bleaching and adding color would be in order as well.

    If the price is crazy I'll have to abandon the idea for now.

    Interestingly, my girlfriend is familiar with the process as she has taken classes at the rare book school at her university, but I don't quite trust her to work on this card

    Here is a link to the guy's website eclipsepaper like the idea of restoring or not, you can't deny his work is amazing!



    Seems like a lot of work without any monetary gain.... Just buy the card, in the grade, you want!
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    Seems like a lot of work without any monetary gain.... Just buy the card, in the grade, you want! >>



    Problem is that almost every Bobby Hull rookie is terribly off centered.

    Also the price for a nm-mt is way way out of my ballpark -- if the restoration is significantly cheaper than the going rate of a centered nm-mt card then it would be worth it for my collection.


  • << <i>

    << <i>

    Seems like a lot of work without any monetary gain.... Just buy the card, in the grade, you want! >>



    Problem is that almost every Bobby Hull rookie is terribly off centered.

    Also the price for a nm-mt is way way out of my ballpark -- if the restoration is significantly cheaper than the going rate of a centered nm-mt card then it would be worth it for my collection. >>



    Base on 10 minutes of research, I'll bet the restoration will cost several hundred dollars. A better approach might be to get with a framing specialist and find an appealing way to frame it such that the centering is minimized.
    ----------------------
    Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
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  • fkwfkw Posts: 1,766 ✭✭
    only restorations that should be done, is on cards that are destroyed, ie, multiple ugly hole punches or nail holes, ripped in half, missing 25% of surface on front, etc.

    The most famous are the E271 Darby Chocolates cards that were all found nailed to an old garage wall... a large % of them have been restored, because of the gaping holes and the major damage from water, bugs, and years of grime. But these restored cards didnt gain any value IMO

    PS this Wagner (below) was restored and it cost $9K for the work done on it, a Hull Rookie is not worth it, sell it and save the restoration $$ and just buy a good one!!!

    image

    Restored and having trouble being sold now because of this.
    T206 Wagner in Mears (4/2010) that was restored
  • restored or not, its still a wagner.
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭
    If the estimate is a fraction of that then I will have to pass and agree that buying a higher conditioned card would be better.

    I'm hoping the estimate is not too much. For the amount of work that must go into those comics (which are worth about the same as the Hull RC, with exception to a few) I can't imagine someone paying that much...but we will see.

  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    Seems like a lot of work without any monetary gain.... Just buy the card, in the grade, you want! >>



    Problem is that almost every Bobby Hull rookie is terribly off centered.

    Also the price for a nm-mt is way way out of my ballpark -- if the restoration is significantly cheaper than the going rate of a centered nm-mt card then it would be worth it for my collection. >>



    Base on 10 minutes of research, I'll bet the restoration will cost several hundred dollars. A better approach might be to get with a framing specialist and find an appealing way to frame it such that the centering is minimized. >>



    This is a good idea, but for my current set up it wouldn't work as I have the cards displayed in cardsaver 2s.
  • detroitfan2detroitfan2 Posts: 3,117 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Dick Towle is just his professional name.

    He was born Schlomo Edenstein, but he thought it sounded too ethnic for the world of sportscard resotoration. >>



    Dude, you're on a roll. It's not often you get back-to-back posts with references to Schlomo Edenstein and Pete Incavaglia!


  • << <i>

    I see nothing wrong with these techniques if you are looking to do something for your own collection. >>



    I can promise you it will not always stay in his collection. At best he will die and someone will sell it. At worst....

    Nothing is forever

    I disagree with restoring it.

    Shawn
    After those four National League games, Gorman Thomas was never the same, and neither were the Brewers, and come to think of it neither was I.

    Josh Wilker - Cardboard Gods
  • thenavarrothenavarro Posts: 7,504 ✭✭✭
    Patrick,

    If you aren't happy with that Hull, I'll buy it off of you and give you a 10% profit.

    Mike
    Buying US Presidential autographs
  • FrozencaribouFrozencaribou Posts: 985 ✭✭✭✭
    Exibit A (first and only trimmed card I have ever knowingly purchased)


    image

    I bought the card on eBay as trimmed. Why on earth someone would want to trim a card with no creases and perfect registration is beyond me. Anyway, the trim job was brutal so I squared up the card as best I could and sent it in for authentication at SGC. I wrote trimmed on the submission sheet just to be sure it wouldn't grade out (not that there is any doubt as it is significantly smaller than a standard size 55 parkie).

    I love the eye appeal of the card. If I had bought it as unaltered I would be very upset, but openness and honesty goes a long way in building a positive association with a card.


    -FC
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    I see nothing wrong with these techniques if you are looking to do something for your own collection.

    I can promise you it will not always stay in his collection. At best he will die and someone will sell it. At worst....

    Nothing is forever

    I disagree with restoring it.

    Shawn >>



    At best I will die and worst? Thanks? To be honest I don't care what happens after I'm gone. My kids/wife/girlfriend/whatever can sell//donate/keep/throw them out.



    << <i> Patrick,

    If you aren't happy with that Hull, I'll buy it off of you and give you a 10% profit.

    Mike >>



    Mike, thanks for the offer. It's not that I don't like the card, I'm just saying if a restoration can be performed for a reasonable amount it would be worth it to me to have an authentic-restored Hull with great eye appeal displayed on my wall with my personal collection. If it is too much then I will get it signed and still proudly display it image




    << <i>I love the eye appeal of the card. If I had bought it as unaltered I would be very upset, but openness and honesty goes a long way in building a positive association with a card >>



    image
  • fkwfkw Posts: 1,766 ✭✭
    "recentering" a plentiful modern Topps card like the Hull is a waste of $$ and will completely kill what value this lowgrade unaltered card has right now.

    Its not easy to add a sliver of a border from one side taken from the other side, and also rebuild the corners, this new fake/unoriginal material will have to be reinforced too... thats alot of work for little gain.
    If you have a peeve about off center cards........ buy a G-VG example that's better centered....... they are out there, I just looked and I saw some.
    To me the Hull card even if O/C is not bad looking because the borders are so narrow to begin with.



    Read up on how and why sports cards are Restored≈≈≈
    Another example.... I have seen one 19th Century card where the borders were all completely trimmed/chopped off and the advertisement was also missing...
    it was basically just the image portion of the card.

    It was restored with materials from the era, a nonbaseball card from a similar series (actress), and it came out very nice and has good eye appeal now, while before is was heavily chopped and was much smaller and missing the advertisement at the bottom that identifies this highly saught after rarte group of cards.

    But this card (like the Wagner) was also a $100,000+ card and the only one known .... 1893 "Just So" Jesse Burkett, it also cost "several thousand dollars" to restore

    1893 "Just So" Jesse Burkett restoration post from 6+ years ago

    Thats the only time Ive heard of someone adding new borders.
    The Wagner mentioned earlier was really missing more than just the borders, it was cut around the image too and missing most of the orange,and had a lot of back damage as well..... it was not even a card anymore IMO

    Bottom line...... the Bobby Hull Topps card is your, and you can do what you want with it image even if many will try to talk you out of it.
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭
    I'm assuming he can build up the border and corners of the card, then cut it down for perfect centering and recolor the new border.

    If any of the back is compromised it can be reprinted in areas.

    Add a little color touch up where needed...a little cleaning.

    If it cost thousands of dollars then I'll have to pass.

    However, if we can keep the cost reasonable and within my budget, I'm game to get it done around Feb.

    This is not about restoring a card for monetary value, it's about adding a beautiful near perfect rookie of one of my favorite players to my collection.

    As mentioned earlier, my girlfriend is familiar with the process and showed me some of her projects where she restored missing paper through leaf casting. After seeing her work and looking at some of the restoration projects online, I'm completely turned on and eager to learn how to do this myself.


  • When you get them restored you should wright on them with plain black letters... Restored. Maybe stamp them as such. image
  • akuracy503akuracy503 Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭
    Mullins,

    Why don't you post a scan of the Hull card so we can see what you're talking about.

    CU Ancient Members badge member.

    Collection: https://flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums



  • << <i>

    << <i>

    To be honest I don't care what happens after I'm gone. My kids/wife/girlfriend/whatever can sell//donate/keep/throw them out.

    >>



    My point exactly. You do not mind getting it restored because it will stay in your collection. After that you do not care.

    To me that is wrong. Some one else will end up with an altered card. Probably sold at top dollar to someone who is expecting an unaltered card.

    Do not be part of the problem, work to fix the problem. This hobby is a mess.


    Do whatever you want it's your card. Hopefully some day you will care what happens after you are gone.

    Shawn
    After those four National League games, Gorman Thomas was never the same, and neither were the Brewers, and come to think of it neither was I.

    Josh Wilker - Cardboard Gods

  • We all know that Mullins would eventually sell the card restored or not. And the same goes for everyone else. The idea that it will go in his personal collection never to surface again in the card world is proposterous.
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    My point exactly. You do not mind getting it restored because it will stay in your collection. After that you do not care.

    To me that is wrong. Some one else will end up with an altered card. Probably sold at top dollar to someone who is expecting an unaltered card.

    Do not be part of the problem, work to fix the problem. This hobby is a mess.


    Do whatever you want it's your card. Hopefully some day you will care what happens after you are gone.

    Shawn >>



    There is nothing wrong with restoring an item and it is not doing any harm to "the hobby."



    << <i>We all know that Mullins would eventually sell the card restored or not. And the same goes for everyone else. The idea that it will go in his personal collection never to surface again in the card world is proposterous. >>




    People's collecting goals shift -- If I ever had to sell a restored/altered card I would disclose all information to the buyer -- that's the best you can do.



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  • wrestlingcardkingwrestlingcardking Posts: 4,508 ✭✭✭✭
    not at fan of restored cards at all, bad idea
    BUYING Frank Gotch T229 Kopec
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