realone: I just figured out how I end up with crappy coins in the collections too!
I purchased $1000 in face value halves from the bank yesterday. I rifled through them all and found a 1950 and 1959 well hairlined and mottled (at the same time) Franklin halves plus 4 1964 Kennedy halves.
So they get added to my "collection" of crappy coins. Just as I am sure the way Eliasberg acquired his crappy coins.
Too lazy to sell them!
By the way, it is just as exciting to discuss one's "crappy" coins as his "elite" coins because of the way they were acquired.
GeorgeMS65 <<Example is on the bay there is an Eliasberg 1883 No Cents [Liberty Nickel]. PCGS price guide has it at $80.00 in MS- 64 [grade and] the seller wants $275. Is a piece of history for that much of an up tic in price?>>
This is a misleading example. Generally, for 19th century U.S. coin issues, Eliasberg had one or two representatives, not rolls. Moreover, those who favor premiums for pedigrees, like myself, are usually NOT suggesting a premium of more than 200%!
GeorgeMS65<< [This 1883 ‘No Cents’ Nickel] is PCGS certified in an [old green PCGS holder]. How would PCGS know it was an Eliasberg [?]>>
CCU <<I would guess that someone submitted some with the lot ticket after the sale and had them pedigreed, though some have been crossed, cracked, upgraded, etc. through the years.>>
RealOne >> Obviously a roll can't be matched [to catalogue plates] so that rules that one out quickly for me, which happens to be the subject of this post and therefore to me it isn't a verifiable Eliasberg and not worth a premium. I don't trust the TPG's and the submitters and the so-called proof submitted at the time of slabbing. I must be able to match the photo with the coin...no matter what …>>
I do not know what exactly happened in regard to these Eliasberg nickels. It is fair to suggest, as CCU guesses, that a dealer who bought a roll or two submitted these nickels to the PCGS shortly after the May 1996 sale with a lot ticket and a copy of an invoice from B&M. Furthermore, officials at the PCGS would take the identity of the submitter into consideration. Undoubtedly, there are some submitters that PCGS officials have found, through experience, to be more trustworthy than others. In this case, for a roll of MS-63 to MS-64 grade 1883 ‘No Cents’ nickels, the probability of even a semi-legitimate dealer pulling a switch, or forging a lot ticket and an invoice, is near zero.
In regard to these nickels, RealOne is being unfair. It is extremely likely that the Eliasberg pedigree on the PCGS holders containing 1883 ‘No Cents’ Nickels is true.
RichUhrich << MOST coins with an Eliasberg pedigree are worth a premium. … But for the Eliasberg 1883 No Cents nickels, there should be in my opinion no premium. … Let's say that Eliasberg had a few rolls of Unc. 1974 cents … even Eliasberg had some ordinary, routine, flotsam and jetsam coins, not deserving of a pedigree, and not worth a premium IMO.>>
First, I believe that all Eliasberg coins should be worth a premium, not necessarily a tremendous premium, but a premium. Secondly, Rich is insulting 1883 ‘No Cent’s Nickels, and their owners, by implicitly equating them to 1974 cents. ‘No Cents’ Nickels are popular one-year type coins and are an important part of the history of U.S. coinage. Uncirculated 1974 cents, unless they are rare errors or are made of aluminum, are not significant.
TDN << What better place to command a 'name' premium than on a common coin? … [An Eliasberg pedigree] increases your enjoyment of the item while you own it>>!
For the most part, I agree with TDN. For pre-1934 coins, an Eliasberg pedigree should be worth a substantial premium. It adds both sentimental and historical value, even to relatively common coins, and pays tribute to the man who assembled the greatest collection of U.S. coins of all time. Moreover, not all collectors seek to maximize the grade point averages of their collections. An AU grade Eliasberg collection, non-rare Capped Bust Half that has natural toning and few contact marks is extremely important to many collectors, and rightfully so.
A few of many articles that prominently mention coins pedigreed to Eliasberg:
"First, I believe that all Eliasberg coins should be worth a premium, not necessarily a tremendous premium, but a premium" The coins are worth what the market bears. No should involved.
How do you guys know that the 1883NC 5c were not shipped to PCGS in the sealed package from B&M auction just like they require now for first strikes after the cut off date.
Without looking at the full list of page 1 threads at the moment, it is plausible that people are also discussing the increase in value a proof 2010 ASE will have with the "First Strike™" label, and furthermore that someone dismissing the premium for a coin owned by Eliasberg, or other equivalently excessively emminent collector, is chomping at the bit to get those two-plus silly words put on a label. I would pay more of a provenance premium for an Eliasberg 83 NC 5c than a First Strike™ anything.
A caped bust half dime that I have been trying to match to a1833 H10c Lm-10 in the Eliasberg catalog for 2 years but haven't been able to make the match, so this isn't an Eliasberg!: >>
Woweezowee, love that 1796!
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Comments
<< <i>I have never seen an Eric Newman provanence on a coin. I wonder why not?
That would be cool.... >>
Buy any of the 1913 Liberty nickels, and I am sure PCGS will add the Newman name to the label at your request.
<< <i>
<< <i>I have never seen an Eric Newman provanence on a coin. I wonder why not?
That would be cool.... >>
Buy any of the 1913 Liberty nickels, and I am sure PCGS will add the Newman name to the label at your request.
SO TRUE
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I purchased $1000 in face value halves from the bank yesterday. I rifled through them all and found a 1950 and 1959 well hairlined and mottled (at the same time) Franklin halves plus 4 1964 Kennedy halves.
So they get added to my "collection" of crappy coins. Just as I am sure the way Eliasberg acquired his crappy coins.
Too lazy to sell them!
By the way, it is just as exciting to discuss one's "crappy" coins as his "elite" coins because of the way they were acquired.
This is a misleading example. Generally, for 19th century U.S. coin issues, Eliasberg had one or two representatives, not rolls. Moreover, those who favor premiums for pedigrees, like myself, are usually NOT suggesting a premium of more than 200%!
GeorgeMS65<< [This 1883 ‘No Cents’ Nickel] is PCGS certified in an [old green PCGS holder]. How would PCGS know it was an Eliasberg [?]>>
CCU <<I would guess that someone submitted some with the lot ticket after the sale and had them pedigreed, though some have been crossed, cracked, upgraded, etc. through the years.>>
RealOne >> Obviously a roll can't be matched [to catalogue plates] so that rules that one out quickly for me, which happens to be the subject of this post and therefore to me it isn't a verifiable Eliasberg and not worth a premium. I don't trust the TPG's and the submitters and the so-called proof submitted at the time of slabbing. I must be able to match the photo with the coin...no matter what …>>
I do not know what exactly happened in regard to these Eliasberg nickels. It is fair to suggest, as CCU guesses, that a dealer who bought a roll or two submitted these nickels to the PCGS shortly after the May 1996 sale with a lot ticket and a copy of an invoice from B&M. Furthermore, officials at the PCGS would take the identity of the submitter into consideration. Undoubtedly, there are some submitters that PCGS officials have found, through experience, to be more trustworthy than others. In this case, for a roll of MS-63 to MS-64 grade 1883 ‘No Cents’ nickels, the probability of even a semi-legitimate dealer pulling a switch, or forging a lot ticket and an invoice, is near zero.
In regard to these nickels, RealOne is being unfair. It is extremely likely that the Eliasberg pedigree on the PCGS holders containing 1883 ‘No Cents’ Nickels is true.
RichUhrich << MOST coins with an Eliasberg pedigree are worth a premium. … But for the Eliasberg 1883 No Cents nickels, there should be in my opinion no premium. … Let's say that Eliasberg had a few rolls of Unc. 1974 cents … even Eliasberg had some ordinary, routine, flotsam and jetsam coins, not deserving of a pedigree, and not worth a premium IMO.>>
First, I believe that all Eliasberg coins should be worth a premium, not necessarily a tremendous premium, but a premium. Secondly, Rich is insulting 1883 ‘No Cent’s Nickels, and their owners, by implicitly equating them to 1974 cents. ‘No Cents’ Nickels are popular one-year type coins and are an important part of the history of U.S. coinage. Uncirculated 1974 cents, unless they are rare errors or are made of aluminum, are not significant.
TDN << What better place to command a 'name' premium than on a common coin? … [An Eliasberg pedigree] increases your enjoyment of the item while you own it>>!
For the most part, I agree with TDN. For pre-1934 coins, an Eliasberg pedigree should be worth a substantial premium. It adds both sentimental and historical value, even to relatively common coins, and pays tribute to the man who assembled the greatest collection of U.S. coins of all time. Moreover, not all collectors seek to maximize the grade point averages of their collections. An AU grade Eliasberg collection, non-rare Capped Bust Half that has natural toning and few contact marks is extremely important to many collectors, and rightfully so.
A few of many articles that prominently mention coins pedigreed to Eliasberg:
Why is the Eliasberg 1895-S Eagle Special?
Which are the finest 1894-S Dimes? 07/31/07
Phenomenal Excitement for an 1870-S dollar
Olsen-Hawn 1913 Liberty Nickel Sells for $3,737,500
Husak 1793 Liberty Cap Realized $632,500 – Why?
Choice Proof Kellogg $50 gold coin to be auctioned
Natural Toning, Dipping and Coin Doctoring, Part 2
Eliasberg 1795 Eagle, Gem Oak Tree Shilling and 1806 quarter of the rarest variety!
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>Eliasberg provenance via Mark Goodman:
1796 10c JR-1 unattributed Eliasberg Plate coin:
1837 10c JR-1 unattributed Eliasberg Plate coin:
A caped bust half dime that I have been trying to match to a1833 H10c Lm-10 in the Eliasberg catalog for 2 years but haven't been able to make the match, so this isn't an Eliasberg!:
Woweezowee, love that 1796!
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.