I guess I left the office yesterday afternoon before these postings were put up, so I was a bit surprised just now when I went to get caught up on the forum to see all these posts on this matter.
I was contacted by the newspaper reporter who did the story, and I told him alot more than was printed. (some of what was printed attributed to me was 'off' a bit)
The short version (and I'll try to reply to further questions) is that this guy has had this coin for decades, says it genuine, thought it was worth $50,000, then $100,000, now a million dollars.
He's been here in Southern California for decades; the story has been in CW, Coinage, local papers, national papers, etc. However, with THREE Long Beach shows a year, and THREE ANA's here in Southern California over the past 3 deceades, Wilkins has NEVER showed up to them, nor has he ever shown the coin to ANY knowledgable dealer, collector, or Third-Party Grading Service.
I have numerous times talked to Coin World, Coinage, and others about this coin, and always told them the piece is not genuine.
Surprisingly, he called and I let him come up to my office a few years ago - he had all sorts of promotional junk printed about the coin. We talked about it, and I told him that based on photos that I had seen in the '70's, the coin was a "Sandwhich Job" and not genuine - which I had told all numismatic publications since the coin first surfaced with him.
He refused to show me the coin, submit the coin to NGC or PCGS, and then showed me another photo of the coin. I immediately told him the coin was not a mint product, and then spent a good 20 minutes or more telling him that he was either the most deluded individual I've ever met in the coin business (and believe me, I've met plenty of similar people who want to believe their coins are genuine errors, and/or worth a fortune), OR, he knew the coin was not genuine, and was a con-man, hoping that the publicity he was trying to get on the coin was simply to 'hook' another idiot into paying a huge amount of money for a coin made outside the Mint.
At this point, I believe he knows the coin is not real, but doesn't care at all.
By the way, in the new story, I'm quoted as saying something like 'similar errors are worth $300-$500 if genuine" - I'm not referring to common double strikes, but flip over double strikes in the collar, which are know for the '40's and '50's, and worth in that range, imo.
(I guess that wasn't the short version ! )
Fred Weinberg
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
Fred W- I wish you wouldn't call it a "Sandwich Job." I find this term offensive & derogatory because I'm a big fan of sandwich jobs, specially grilled cheese and baloney. If you insist on comparing it to food it looks like a "Big Mac Attack" since the middle bun would be his coin and the meat patty on each side would be the mates of his coin while the bottom & top buns would be the vise jaws.
Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
My next suggestion is that you really need to try a "McRib Sandwhich" at this time!!!
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
You mean I have to give a long explaination as to why my last sentence regarding the 'short version' wasn't the short version???
Do you want a long version of what I am explaining, or the short version of the long version that I just called the short version?
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
<< <i>I hate it when Fred goes all "Kill-Joy" on the owner of a mega-rarity like this. What say we pull out a vise and make Fred his own $3 million cent, so the "jealousy" can subside. >>
I am seriously considering doing just that, though not to give to Fred to allay his jealousy. I thought maybe I'd offer it to the guy with the first one at a 50% discount from his asking price.
Sean Reynolds
P.S.: I think Rick Snow has a horror story about someone who sent him a similar "mega rarity", Fred is probably lucky the guy in the story didn't hand him the coin.
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i>You mean I have to give a long explaination as to why my last sentence regarding the 'short version' wasn't the short version???
Do you want a long version of what I am explaining, or the short version of the long version that I just called the short version? >>
I think that I understood what I thought you said, but what I understand is that you understood that the understanding of the short version would not improve with a longer version of what you were trying to explain.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," due out late 2025.
Well, since the guy hasn't shown the coin to any credible dealer or grading service, if he should find some possible buyer (i.e., someone with more money than brains), he can say "No one who has seen the coin has pronounced it not genuine" which is a true statement. He can also say "there are published estimates of $3 million for this coin" despite the fact that he is the only one creating those estimates.
Maybe this guy was P. T. Barnum in a prior life.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Realone, my apologies - I thought you were kidding me about my 'short version' of events statement in the post.
What I meant in that last sentence you mention is that although most double struck cents are worth $25-$100 or so, Flip-Over Double Strikes in the Collar are worth $300-500, in most cases, and they're known to exist dated in the 1940's and 1950's.
This was in reply to the reporter who wanted to know if the darn coin was real, THEN would it be worth what Wilkins says it's worth....No, even if real, it's $300-$500.
Sorry for the confusion. The reporter didn't write everything I emailed him, as would be expected.
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
My next suggestion is that you really need to try a "McRib Sandwhich" at this time!!! >>
I prefer the Buck Double @ Burger King, but on Fred's advice I did eat a McRib when I went to town today. As the bun started to turn to mush and my fingers were forced to grip it tighter & tighter the sauce & onions slowly oozed out creating this image in my mind of 3 Wheat pennys being squished between the jaws of a vise. I fully understand how the pressed penny was created but am still trying to figure out how they manufacture the "meat" that goes in a McRib, it appears to be made in much the same fashion, only from a cardboard derivative, maybe that's why you call it a sammich job, huh? Now I see the difference between Clowns and Kings.
Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
I am quite amused how a discussion about a probably bogus cent "error" , thought by its owner to be worth millions, brings out discussions of nasty fast foods (I like to call the Mc Rib the Mc Pig) and Dave W's dating in high school (I suspect that woman did not become your wife). Do we have a psychiatrist in the house?
Dr. Pete there's really not much else to discuss about putting several pennys in a vise and turning the handle and proclaiming the results as a rare & valuable Mint error. You're a doctor, can't you help these people?
Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
<< <i>Dr. Pete there's really not much else to discuss about putting several pennys in a vise and turning the handle and proclaiming the results as a rare & valuable Mint error. You're a doctor, can't you help these people? >>
"government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
<< <i>Dr. Pete there's really not much else to discuss about putting several pennys in a vise and turning the handle and proclaiming the results as a rare & valuable Mint error. You're a doctor, can't you help these people? >>
He's a doctor, not a miracle worker >>
Wilkins is already is a few cents short of a Happy Meal, but maybe Dr. Pete could help him towards a McRib Value Deal
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
These are easy to fake, I created some as a kid. I took a roll of Jefferson's and shot them head on with a .357. The first few coins are quite mangled but there will be section of coins in the middle where the coins will impart the inverse image on the coin below. I would imagine with copper it would be easier than with Nickel. A .22 would probably also do the job, or something like a .410 shotgun slug. BTW - In case you try this, I don't suggest it, its quite dangerous, hence only a dumb kid would try it (that was me). I suppse you could make it safer but there will be high velocity flying debris.
<< <i>Dave........may we assume from that story that you were thrown out at first base????
TD
P.S.: What was the movie???
<insert popcorn emoticon here> >>
The 'thrown out at first base' is hilarious!!!
BUT, how did this turn into a promo for the McRib sandwich? (Though, I've been following the site that shows which franchises are bringing them back, and can't wait to get oneof those succulent, gooey, prefabricated, 'meat-made-in-the-shape-of-a-rack-of-ribs' (I remember when they first came out way back, thought to myself there was bone in it, so better be careful...after realizing they made the meat to look like the bone in a rack, I just scarfed 'em down...lol). NOW, I need to go about 20 miles to get one, and I'm gonna take me a 'McRib ride'......
MMMMMMMMMMMMm, McRRRRRRRiiiiiiiiiibbbbbbbbbb sandwich! (doing my best Homer Simpson impession)
Oh, to stay on topic...wait, what was the topic about again??? Oh, that sandwiched coin that someone said is worth a gagillion $$, and one of a kind. Of course it's one-of-a-kind...I highly doubt another sandwiched coin could be reproduced exactly like it, so, yeah, it very well could be one-of-a-kind, but his estimate of it's value.....and our resident expert Mr. Weinberg had to deal with this guy (giving an opinion on the coin from a portrait, no less...not a picture, but a portrait....lol) and be 'not properly quoted' in the press (can ya believe a person could be mis-quoted in the press???), tell him it's basically just damaged, well, I.....oh, the hell with it, I'm hongry for that McRib.....off the Mickey D's!!!!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," due out late 2025.
Comments
I guess I left the office yesterday afternoon before these
postings were put up, so I was a bit surprised just now
when I went to get caught up on the forum to see all these
posts on this matter.
I was contacted by the newspaper reporter who did the
story, and I told him alot more than was printed. (some of
what was printed attributed to me was 'off' a bit)
The short version (and I'll try to reply to further questions)
is that this guy has had this coin for decades, says it genuine,
thought it was worth $50,000, then $100,000, now a million
dollars.
He's been here in Southern California for decades; the story
has been in CW, Coinage, local papers, national papers, etc.
However, with THREE Long Beach shows a year, and THREE
ANA's here in Southern California over the past 3 deceades,
Wilkins has NEVER showed up to them, nor has he ever shown
the coin to ANY knowledgable dealer, collector, or Third-Party
Grading Service.
I have numerous times talked to Coin World, Coinage, and others
about this coin, and always told them the piece is not genuine.
Surprisingly, he called and I let him come up to my office a
few years ago - he had all sorts of promotional junk printed
about the coin. We talked about it, and I told him that based
on photos that I had seen in the '70's, the coin was a
"Sandwhich Job" and not genuine - which I had told all numismatic
publications since the coin first surfaced with him.
He refused to show me the coin, submit the coin to NGC or PCGS,
and then showed me another photo of the coin. I immediately
told him the coin was not a mint product, and then spent a good
20 minutes or more telling him that he was either the most deluded
individual I've ever met in the coin business (and believe me, I've
met plenty of similar people who want to believe their coins are
genuine errors, and/or worth a fortune), OR, he knew the coin
was not genuine, and was a con-man, hoping that the publicity
he was trying to get on the coin was simply to 'hook' another idiot
into paying a huge amount of money for a coin made outside the Mint.
At this point, I believe he knows the coin is not real, but doesn't care at all.
By the way, in the new story, I'm quoted as saying something like
'similar errors are worth $300-$500 if genuine" - I'm not referring to
common double strikes, but flip over double strikes in the collar, which
are know for the '40's and '50's, and worth in that range, imo.
(I guess that wasn't the short version ! )
Fred Weinberg
I wish you wouldn't call it a "Sandwich Job." I find this term offensive & derogatory because I'm a big fan of sandwich jobs, specially grilled cheese and baloney. If you insist on comparing it to food it looks like a "Big Mac Attack" since the middle bun would be his coin and the meat patty on each side would be the mates of his coin while the bottom & top buns would be the vise jaws.
Dog - I see your point.
My next suggestion is that you really
need to try a "McRib Sandwhich" at
this time!!!
as to why my last sentence regarding the
'short version' wasn't the short version???
Do you want a long version of what I am
explaining, or the short version of the
long version that I just called the short version?
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm gonna go head and take Fred's word for it on this one... >>
An excellent decision!
TD >>
i'll go along with that one to
<< <i>I hate it when Fred goes all "Kill-Joy" on the owner of a mega-rarity like this. What say we
pull out a vise and make Fred his own $3 million cent, so the "jealousy" can subside.
I am seriously considering doing just that, though not to give to Fred to allay his jealousy. I thought maybe I'd offer it to the guy with the first one at a 50% discount from his asking price.
Sean Reynolds
P.S.: I think Rick Snow has a horror story about someone who sent him a similar "mega rarity", Fred is probably lucky the guy in the story didn't hand him the coin.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i>You mean I have to give a long explaination
as to why my last sentence regarding the
'short version' wasn't the short version???
Do you want a long version of what I am
explaining, or the short version of the
long version that I just called the short version? >>
I think that I understood what I thought you said, but
what I understand is that you understood that the
understanding of the short version would not improve
with a longer version of what you were trying to
explain.
Does that about cover it to your understanding?
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Maybe this guy was P. T. Barnum in a prior life.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Realone, my apologies - I thought you were kidding me
about my 'short version' of events statement in the post.
What I meant in that last sentence you mention is that
although most double struck cents are worth $25-$100
or so, Flip-Over Double Strikes in the Collar are worth
$300-500, in most cases, and they're known to exist
dated in the 1940's and 1950's.
This was in reply to the reporter who wanted to know if
the darn coin was real, THEN would it be worth what
Wilkins says it's worth....No, even if real, it's $300-$500.
Sorry for the confusion. The reporter didn't write everything
I emailed him, as would be expected.
My next suggestion is that you really
need to try a "McRib Sandwhich" at
this time!!! >>
I prefer the Buck Double @ Burger King, but on Fred's advice I did eat a McRib when I went to town today.
As the bun started to turn to mush and my fingers were forced to grip it tighter & tighter the sauce & onions slowly oozed out creating this image in my mind of 3 Wheat pennys being squished between the jaws of a vise.
I fully understand how the pressed penny was created but am still trying to figure out how they manufacture the "meat" that goes in a McRib, it appears to be made in much the same fashion, only from a cardboard derivative, maybe that's why you call it a sammich job, huh?
Now I see the difference between Clowns and Kings.
<< <i>(I like to call the Mc Rib the Mc Pig) >>
DrPete, These seems to be the dealer sandwich of choice as it's been recommended by others on the forum...
I'm just happy to see they are still logging in after consumption!
You're a doctor, can't you help these people?
<< <i>Dr. Pete there's really not much else to discuss about putting several pennys in a vise and turning the handle and proclaiming the results as a rare & valuable Mint error.
You're a doctor, can't you help these people? >>
He's a doctor, not a miracle worker
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>It's bigger than an English Muffin!
roadrunner >>
...and smaller than a bread-box!
<< <i>
<< <i>Dr. Pete there's really not much else to discuss about putting several pennys in a vise and turning the handle and proclaiming the results as a rare & valuable Mint error.
You're a doctor, can't you help these people? >>
He's a doctor, not a miracle worker
Wilkins is already is a few cents short of a Happy Meal, but maybe Dr. Pete could help him towards a McRib Value Deal
BTW - In case you try this, I don't suggest it, its quite dangerous, hence only a dumb kid would try it (that was me). I suppse you could make it safer but there will be high velocity flying debris.
<< <i>Dave........may we assume from that story that you were thrown out at first base????
TD
P.S.: What was the movie???
<insert popcorn emoticon here> >>
The 'thrown out at first base' is hilarious!!!
BUT, how did this turn into a promo for the McRib sandwich? (Though, I've been following the site that shows which franchises are bringing them back, and can't wait to get oneof those succulent, gooey, prefabricated, 'meat-made-in-the-shape-of-a-rack-of-ribs' (I remember when they first came out way back, thought to myself there was bone in it, so better be careful...after realizing they made the meat to look like the bone in a rack, I just scarfed 'em down...lol). NOW, I need to go about 20 miles to get one, and I'm gonna take me a 'McRib ride'......
MMMMMMMMMMMMm, McRRRRRRRiiiiiiiiiibbbbbbbbbb sandwich! (doing my best Homer Simpson impession)
Oh, to stay on topic...wait, what was the topic about again??? Oh, that sandwiched coin that someone said is worth a gagillion $$, and one of a kind. Of course it's one-of-a-kind...I highly doubt another sandwiched coin could be reproduced exactly like it, so, yeah, it very well could be one-of-a-kind, but his estimate of it's value.....and our resident expert Mr. Weinberg had to deal with this guy (giving an opinion on the coin from a portrait, no less...not a picture, but a portrait....lol) and be 'not properly quoted' in the press (can ya believe a person could be mis-quoted in the press???), tell him it's basically just damaged, well, I.....oh, the hell with it, I'm hongry for that McRib.....off the Mickey D's!!!!