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We are floating on a cloud of ignorance, hope and wistful thinking

BearBear Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭
Soon, the cloud will dissipate and the entire World must balance all of the books

or the World, as we know it, will change for an entire generation of time. 1929 -1934

will be viewed, as a mere warm up game.
There once was a place called
Camelotimage

Comments

  • mrearlygoldmrearlygold Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
    Good
  • You are correct sir!
  • guitarwesguitarwes Posts: 9,266 ✭✭✭

    Personally, like I've said before, I'd rather have corn, gas, guns, goats, and chickens stocked up when this happens rather than gold and silver. But, it probably won't hurt to have a bit of metal too, especially when I need to make a washer for my tractor out of a Silver Eagle.

    @ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work.
    Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    it probably won't hurt to have a bit of metal too, especially when I need to make a washer for my tractor out of a Silver Eagle.

    Wes, what size washer to you need? I've got some 2-inchers and I'd sell you one, plus a spare for that Silver Eagle. I'll even pay the postage.image
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • guitarwesguitarwes Posts: 9,266 ✭✭✭

    image

    mighty nice of you to offer that, but the washer I made last year out of a gold buffalo hasn't worn out just yet. I'll give you a call when it needs replacing.

    @ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work.
    Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.


  • << <i>Soon, the cloud will dissipate and the entire World must balance all of the books

    or the World, as we know it, will change for an entire generation of time. 1929 -1934

    will be viewed, as a mere warm up game. >>



    Bear, what was it like when the market crashed in 1929? Did you take much of a loss?image


  • << <i>image

    mighty nice of you to offer that, but the washer I made last year out of a gold buffalo hasn't worn out just yet. I'll give you a call when it needs replacing. >>


    Wasn't there an old "good luck" myth about nailing a coin over a doorway ¿?
  • percybpercyb Posts: 3,324 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Soon, the cloud will dissipate and the entire World must balance all of the books

    or the World, as we know it, will change for an entire generation of time. 1929 -1934

    will be viewed, as a mere warm up game. >>



    That's the spirit!! Love your positive outlook.
    "Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world." PBShelley
  • BearBear Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭
    I once tried out for "The Voice of Doom", but I was judged too optimistic.
    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage
  • ebaytraderebaytrader Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭


    << <i>We are floating on a cloud of ignorence, hope and wistful thinking
    >>



    Please try to keep yer threads non-political. Thanx.
  • MesquiteMesquite Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I once tried out for "The Voice of Doom", but I was judged too optimistic. >>



    Bear, you crack me up. Thank you!
    There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.
    –John Adams, 1826


  • << <i>

    << <i>We are floating on a cloud of ignorence, hope and wistful thinking
    >>



    Please try to keep yer threads non-political. Thanx. >>



    Uh...how did you make the leap there? I took it to mean government, not one particular party. And in actuality, I think we could properly make that statement about the entire human race, not just politicians. A great motto I am recently trying to live by: Informed Hope leads to Positive Thinking which leads to Realized Dreams which leads to Informed Hope...etc.

    FWIW
    ASE Addict...but oh so poor!
  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 17,317 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>We are floating on a cloud of ignorence, hope and wistful thinking
    >>



    Please try to keep yer threads non-political. Thanx. >>



    Sounds like you are the one that is talking politics.
    Let's face it, bad politics can be a real destroyer of personal wealth!!
    I love the Bear!!!! image
  • Wolf359Wolf359 Posts: 7,656 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Good >>



    I second that motion. Time to clean the deadwood out, take out the trash, you name it.
  • Downtown1974Downtown1974 Posts: 6,795 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Im mainly on the card forum, but I like to check out the PM and coin forums as I dabble a bit in both. But, lately some of the people on here have posted some far out things on the future of our nation. Yes...I agree, we are in a recession that seems to be spiraling out of control. Things dont look good right now and no relief is visible at this time. But...some people have really taken it to another level. Some members have stated the possibility of states seceding from the nation, others brought up martial law, hyperinflation, etc. I mean...come on here!
    Before anybody starts filling thier basements with sugar, flour and coffee beans, lets take SOME of the things we read about or things we watch on "sly"FOX news for what its worth....Propaganda.
  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    Hummmmm...forgot to mention Drudge.
  • renman95renman95 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No prop on network or cable prior Fox?
  • It is always calmest before the Storm
    When it becomes calm, that will be the time to ...........
  • Wolf359Wolf359 Posts: 7,656 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Im mainly on the card forum, but I like to check out the PM and coin forums as I dabble a bit in both. But, lately some of the people on here have posted some far out things on the future of our nation. Yes...I agree, we are in a recession that seems to be spiraling out of control. Things dont look good right now and no relief is visible at this time. But...some people have really taken it to another level. Some members have stated the possibility of states seceding from the nation, others brought up martial law, hyperinflation, etc. I mean...come on here!
    Before anybody starts filling thier basements with sugar, flour and coffee beans, lets take SOME of the things we read about or things we watch on "sly"FOX news for what its worth....Propaganda. >>



    If that's what you believe, stick to the card forum.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,025 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Balance the books.

    Ha.

    That's been a major part of the problem coming since 1929 - 1934 and I'm surprised it's not all over the media right now.

    1929 - 1934 was a warm up. It wasn't all the Hawley-Smoot Tarriffs, but that highlighted the problem that is yet unsolved. We can't isolate ourself from the world, and we have to live in some kind of balance with and within it.

    Yet we have a huge trade deficit.

    All the talk about QE2 devaluing the dollar has overshadowed the trade deficit talk.

    Have a problem with the effects of QE2? It can be halted.

    Have a problem with the effect of the trade deficit? Well, no one has a solution for that, do they? (Although ending foreign oil dependence is a great start.)
    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    " (Although ending foreign oil dependence is a great start.)"

    Yeah, for such a no-brainer, it seems to escape any serious committment.
    No brain
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,286 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You should be riding on a new GM suspension.


  • << <i>

    << <i>Im mainly on the card forum, but I like to check out the PM and coin forums as I dabble a bit in both. But, lately some of the people on here have posted some far out things on the future of our nation. Yes...I agree, we are in a recession that seems to be spiraling out of control. Things dont look good right now and no relief is visible at this time. But...some people have really taken it to another level. Some members have stated the possibility of states seceding from the nation, others brought up martial law, hyperinflation, etc. I mean...come on here!
    Before anybody starts filling thier basements with sugar, flour and coffee beans, lets take SOME of the things we read about or things we watch on "sly"FOX news for what its worth....Propaganda. >>



    If that's what you believe, stick to the card forum. >>

    You must have alot of job security, but for some of us things are already very serious. All it takes is one spouse out of work and I think your perspective would change.IMO
  • percybpercyb Posts: 3,324 ✭✭✭✭
    IGNORENCE is should be spelled IGNORANCE.
    WISTFUL should be WISHFUL.
    "Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world." PBShelley
  • Downtown1974Downtown1974 Posts: 6,795 ✭✭✭✭✭
    cartermurph, I dont want you to think that I am making light of our current economic crisis with my last post. Believe me, I understand the severity of it and I am also feeling the delivering blows from it. However....I just dont see a time when we will have to resort to the examples given in my first post about states seceding from the nation and what not.

    Being a member of the CU forums for the past 5 years, I knew that a post from across the street may not be received well here. So, I expect some lambasting. But I didnt come here to troll or ruffle feathers.
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,119 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree, that there are some extremest views on this forum, but they are taken with a "grain of salt" by most of us or ignored all together. Let's face it, the world as we know it is not going to end on 12/21/12 and neither will a SHTF scenario be upon us any time soon as some have predicted for several years now. Downtown1974 drop by more often, it's always a pleasure to hear a moderate viewpoint, even if I don't fully agree with it.
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • FrankcoinsFrankcoins Posts: 4,569 ✭✭✭


    << <i> we are in a recession that seems to be spiraling out of control. Things dont look good right now and no relief is visible at this time.
    >>



    image

    image

    http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/recession-over/
    Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Frank, you must have accidently left off the actual unemployement chart. It's hard to have more lay-offs in some areas when so many are already laid off or have stopped looking for work.

    Q- How many Americans are unemployed? No charts please. Just an actual number please. TIA. MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There's another couple charts that show continued declines in private sector employment and some offsetting growth in government employment, and that's not just from the census hiring.

    The other interesting stat I read within the last day or so is that there are now more people working in the Dept. of Agriculture than there are actual farmers working in farming.

    Seems like a really dumb way to manage an economy, but what do I know?
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Downtown1974

    Welcome to our little corner of paradiseimage

    Excuse our welcoming committee for being a little surly. They just got back from burying gold, digging bunkers and shooting apples off of each others head at 80 paces with a slingshotimage

    MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • Downtown1974Downtown1974 Posts: 6,795 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks MJ and OPA!
    I have thick skin so I can take the heat. I have been lurking here for a while so, I thought I would drop by and give my opinion.
    Maybe Im one of those people the OP started this thread about....ignorant. But I would rather think of it as being optimistic. image
  • FrankcoinsFrankcoins Posts: 4,569 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Frank, you must have accidently left off the actual unemployement chart. It's hard to have more lay-offs in some areas when so many are already laid off or have stopped looking for work.

    Q- How many Americans are unemployed? No charts please. Just an actual number please. TIA. MJ >>



    Well at least things are better than under Ronald Reagan

    image
    Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    "Q- How many Americans are unemployed?"

    Here are the numbers and references that I came up with last night while I was considering the situation...

    US adult population aged 20-59
    Bureau of Labor Statistics report of US unemployeed for 11/10

    You have to look at the context of the population to get an understanding of what the unemployment situation is probably like. For example, if you consider the total population and the number of unemployed, you get a goofy number because a lot of the folk are in school, are infants, are old, and other things. So, you have to consider the adult population (those that are actually eligible for work aged 20-59 then that equals 118 million according to the US census abstract for 2010.

    The unemployment report by the BLS has a lot of categories and it is difficult to tell actually who was included in their calculation of 9.6%, rate of unemployment. If you consider that there are 118 mil adults eligible and there are 14.8 mil (bls #'s) unemployed then that gives us an unemployment rate of 12.45%.

    Of course, this brings up a lot of questions. Are there really 14.8 mil people sitting on their hands and not making ANY money? If this number is true than we are looking at an employment rate of 87.5% so almost 9 out of ten people are working. On the surface, it would seem that this is no big deal if almost 9 guys are helping one guy along...not much of a drag on the system. But, when you consider that half of those filing 1040's (people with income) do not have enough income to qualify for paying taxes then you have 59 million people eligible to work folks that are not paying taxes so the number of people paying for those unemployment benefits that congress authorizes (12.5 bil is the current request) changes a little here. Now you have four guys helping one guy with each employeed guy paying a quarter of the 12.5 bil needed to cover the extension of unemployment benefits.

    Here the Big O talks about 2.5 mil unemployed. 2.5 million without jobs in the recession
    Here the number of unemployed is 4 million. current request for extending unemployment benefits

    So, to answer your question...there are either 2.5 million unemployed by the recession or 4 million that need unemployment extensions or 14.8 million actually unemployeed.

    My take on this...if you haven't had a job in 99 weeks then you're gonna need to find some work. There are millions of jobs that are wanting for employees but no one will take them. It would be interesting to see how many people receiving unemployment benefits have an i-phone.



  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thank you Hammertime! That was above the call of duty.

    15 million seems to be number IMHO.

    99 weeks. That is a long time......................MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was unemployed in 1976 for about 3 months, when the economy was dragging along and when I was alot less employable than I am now. I got busy and found a job.

    I was also unemployed in 1987 for about 3 months, when layoffs put me out of work and the economy wasn't booming by any means. Jumping through hoops for an unemployment check was no fun, and I took a job that was much less desirable than the one I was laid off from, but it was better than unemployment.

    I don't know what the requirements are these days to remain qualified to receive an unemployment check, but if you can't find a job that pays well enough it is clear that unemployment is easier. Extending benefits provides no incentive to shake off the depression of not having a job and to get out and find one.

    And yes, I know the stories about 10 applicants for each position. That's an excuse.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Don't get too enamored with the unemployment chart during the Reagan years. The same way GDP and CPI have been revamped since then, so has the unemployment model. If one uses the same model used during the Reagan years, unemployment is higher today. Even the BLS's U6 model which includes short term discouraged workers it gives 17% unemployment which is higher than the Reagan years. And if you factor in long-term discouraged workers (officially deleted from the model in 1994) you end up with 22%. 1993-1994 were big years for "tweaking" the BLS stats just as 1983 was. If the raw data doesn't give the desired results....change the model until they do.

    unemployment charts with various models

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,646 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "We are floating on a cloud of ignorance, hope and wistful thinking"



    << <i>Soon, the cloud will dissipate and the entire World must balance all of the books

    or the World, as we know it, will change for an entire generation of time. 1929 -1934

    will be viewed, as a mere warm up game.

    >>




    Balance is always established before anything can be built.

    1777c. N. (the dead king) has ascended on the rain-cloud; he has descended ----

    People have become more superstitious than ever before. Science causes religion to be embraced
    more passionately while science itself has become a mere religion. Everyone knows everything so
    we are all justified at scoffing at other peoples' beliefs.

    The current economic mess is an insignificant threat compared to some approaching for the younger
    generation.

    If people don't get their dirt out of boss Keane's ditch it's going to bury us all.

    Tempus fugit.
  • fishcookerfishcooker Posts: 3,446 ✭✭
    Go check out the next major hurricane site if you think society is so strong. Takes about a day after the power is cut off for the gasoline and food to be gone. After that it's a whole different world.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,104 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I agree, that there are some extremest views on this forum, but they are taken with a "grain of salt" by most of us or ignored all together. Let's face it, the world as we know it is not going to end on 12/21/12 and neither will a SHTF scenario be upon us any time soon as some have predicted for several years now. Downtown1974 drop by more often, it's always a pleasure to hear a moderate viewpoint, even if I don't fully agree with it. >>




    What am I gonna do with all my candy bars then?image


    As far as unemployment. How about this? The G says unemployment rate is ~9.5%. Lets forget about the "underemployed" as this number can be stretched and manipulated many different ways. I contend that in 2007 we had 100% employment. That is everyone who WANTED to work, or who were ABLE to work had jobs. Since then about 8 milliion willing and able workers lost their jobs. Thats about 5% of the workforce. So how would it sound if the G really said that the unemployment rate was 5%, instead of pushing double digits? Think they'd be able to get spending packages passed so easily? Think they'd be able to spread fear to push agendas?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • BearBear Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭
    PERCYB...............



    Wistful.." Having a feeling of vague or regretful longing"If I meant to say wishful, then I

    would have said wishful. As for ignorance. do you know how difficult it is to type with these

    big paws and long claws of mine.image
    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage
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