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Does the green bean stay?

jacktheknifejacktheknife Posts: 1,547 ✭
in PCGS Set Registry Forum

If a coin has been given a CAC sticker and then is sent in for regrade and gets a "+", does the sticker stay with the coin? I have seen a few coins lately that have the plus and the green sticker.

Jack


Comments

  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jack, PCGS unholders all regrades and allows the graders to view the coins raw. They would not try to recover the bean or any other stickers on the damaged and broken plastic slab. What you have seen is a plus coin from PCGS and then viewed and given a green bean. Shag
  • BigRickBigRick Posts: 1,334
    Don't understand why they can't keep the same cert number or at least provide a "title" that specified the previous cert number of a regraded coin.
    My Sets
  • scottgardenerscottgardener Posts: 1,205 ✭
    The past history or pedigree of a coin is tracable but relies heavily on word-of-mouth. Regrading coins always entails a certain degree of randomness, no matter how skilled the expert. And, PCGS or any other grading (or "I agree" stickering) company has loyalty to itself, its customers, and the coin hobby and industry, but not to each other's holders or stickers.

    The net summation effect of this is: trying to optimize a grade and squeeze in every merit badge sticker one can for a coin can get pretty expensive.
    Improperly Cleaned, Our passion for numismatics is Genuine! Now featuring correct spelling.
  • coolkarmacoolkarma Posts: 512 ✭✭
    I have sent in PCGS graded buffalo nickels for attribution, and they come back in a new holder but with the same old cert number. This has included at least one CAC-ed coin, a 1917-d in PCGS MS64, which was attributed as a 3 1/2 leg FS-901. There is no green bean on the holder (I removed it before submitting), but since it has the same serial number it does show up on the CAC web site. Therefore I consider it to still be CAC-ed. Presumably, one could get a new bean placed on it if one wanted.

    While a bit different, it should work the same way for regraded coins, particularly since CAC has said they do not confirm +'s or *'s or other qualifiers, just the base grade as being solid.

    Enjoy!

    Richard
    PR Lincoln
    MS Buffalo
    MS 1951
  • scottgardenerscottgardener Posts: 1,205 ✭
    PCGS, NGC, and CAC do not guarantee agreement with each other as to what constitutes high end for the grade, so there is no formal promise to re-bean a previously stickered coin with a new serial number. One that was reholdered with the same number, though, I would expect to be re-beanable just as one can reholder a coin in its holder without regrading, since it's not having to be looked at by a coin grading expert for an opinion.

    I would expect and hope, though, that a + graded coin would have a high chance of getting beaned, by virtue of it being nice enough to get the plus grade in the first place. To that end, getting the bean may be a bit redundant, unless you're working on a Led Zeppelin IV set, looking for a coin graded MS64+*(CAC)(RD)(Zoso)(Celtic triskelion)(three circles)(feather in circle). Ooh... makes me wonder...
    Improperly Cleaned, Our passion for numismatics is Genuine! Now featuring correct spelling.
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,417 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Don't understand why they can't keep the same cert number or at least provide a "title" that specified the previous cert number of a regraded coin. >>




    I've seen this request over the years and I think the answer is pretty simple:

    Step out of your customer shoes and step into the role of the business behind the slabbing. What does your way get them? A small % of customers that really want that info. A number that may not want that number specified ("well, it was a MS64 but is now MS65, so they must have paid MS64, or less money, so I will offer less than they want and argue with them since I can trace the slabbing numbers"). And, most likely, and even larger amount who don't care (the coin is what it is now, so buy the coin, not the holder).

    Then, to the OP's question, why should PCGS try to make things easier on CAC for the stickers? They didn't change their way to make it harder, but why change their process to make it easier? They don't make money from the CAC (not directly at least....potential reholdering maybe, but that is smaller).

    Not to mention the database info, people complaining if there are problems, etc etc etc......pretty clear, to me at least, why the business wouldn't want to do what some are asking.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • jacktheknifejacktheknife Posts: 1,547 ✭



    Thanks for all the responses. I guess I should have been a bit more clear with my point. Isn't the "+" grade really a whole new grade, albeit just a half point higher? so, does a bean now mean that the coin is still high end even for the new grade? Not that it couldn't happen, but it would seem that once a coin upgrades to the "+" designation, that the bean is no longer warranted.
    Clearly, I do not know enough about the "+" designation. It also seems strange that a coin that regrades with the "+" designation still gets the same cert number back. Technically, it's a different grade.


    Jack

  • SteveSteve Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭
    What this thread says to me is that NOBODY here REALLY knows what PCGS, CAC or other collectors and dealers will say about a coin that WAS in a PCGS slab with a CAC green or gold sticker on it and was then sent to PCGS and now is in a NEW PCGS slab WITHOUT the CAC sticker.

    Somehow, sometime in the future I imagine PCGS and/or CAC will lend clarity to the situation. To those who this all means something, I say "good luck". Steveimage
    My True View Album

    My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
  • scottgardenerscottgardener Posts: 1,205 ✭
    As I understand it:

    PCGS (Grade X)+ means that the coin is (Grade X), but a high end (Grade X), almost qualifying for (Grade X+1), but not quite. NGC likewise.

    CAC Green means that the coin is (Grade X) and at least solid for the grade. It may or may not be high end, almost qualifying for (Grade X+1). CAC Gold means that the coin is under-graded and should be (Grade X+1).

    Therefore, if all coin graders graded exactly the same all the time, but that one can import into this hypothetical universe coins graded in our universe, then:

    ALL plus-graded coins would green bean
    SOME green bean coins would regrade (Grade X)+
    and
    ALL gold bean coins would regrade at least (Grade X+1)
    Improperly Cleaned, Our passion for numismatics is Genuine! Now featuring correct spelling.
  • golfer72golfer72 Posts: 3,588
    Think about it.If PCGS transferred the sticker to the new slab that would mean the stickers could be removed from one slab and put on another slab and still be intact. That would not work too well now would it for the validity of CAC stickers on a given slab.image
  • ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Gold sticker in my opinion signifies a slabbed coin which exceeds their stringent standards. It is by no means just a single point 'jump'. That slabbed AU50, with a gold sticker, can easily be an MS61. There are only 387 gold stickers, as I understand.
  • scottgardenerscottgardener Posts: 1,205 ✭
    Makes sense--it would mean Grade (X+Y), where Y is a positive integer.

    Let's just hope that grading standards don't add any more layers of complexity, or else we may have to learn integral calculus.
    Improperly Cleaned, Our passion for numismatics is Genuine! Now featuring correct spelling.
  • JeshJesh Posts: 277 ✭
    I know for a fact that CAC will re-evaluate the coin even if it's been "beaned" already. You can give them 'proof' but it will still be reevaluated. I just became a CAC partner and this is what I was told.

    On the other note, my gold CAC stickered items were regraded and came back one grade up, and most of my 'regular' beans came back one grade higher or +. (The ones that count to me (e.g. top pop gold, see registry link).

    NOW when I send them back they will most likely not get a bean but you never know. I'll have a full 'report' once they all come back.
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Thanks for all the responses. I guess I should have been a bit more clear with my point. Isn't the "+" grade really a whole new grade, albeit just a half point higher? so, does a bean now mean that the coin is still high end even for the new grade? Not that it couldn't happen, but it would seem that once a coin upgrades to the "+" designation, that the bean is no longer warranted.
    Clearly, I do not know enough about the "+" designation. It also seems strange that a coin that regrades with the "+" designation still gets the same cert number back. Technically, it's a different grade.


    Jack >>

    CAC makes their evaluations based on the numerical grade, and ignores the plus part of it. So, for example, whether you have a coin in a 65 holder or a 65+ holder, if CAC stickers it, it only means that they think the coin is a 65 A or B coin, not necessarily a 65+ A or B coin.
  • jacktheknifejacktheknife Posts: 1,547 ✭


    Mark,
    Technically speaking, isn't the "+" grade equal to x.5? In the registry it is given additional value, correct? So, wouldn't the CAC sticker be signifying that the coin is "awesome", "great", "solid" for the new "+" grade?



  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Mark,
    Technically speaking, isn't the "+" grade equal to x.5? In the registry it is given additional value, correct? So, wouldn't the CAC sticker be signifying that the coin is "awesome", "great", "solid" for the new "+" grade? >>

    Jack, regardless of registry (or other) considerations, and whether people like it or dislike it, CAC ignores the plus, period. They evaluate the coin as if the plus were not on the grading label.
  • jacktheknifejacktheknife Posts: 1,547 ✭


    Thanks, Mark. I guess that ends the thread because that was really all my question was about.

    Jack



  • orevilleoreville Posts: 12,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My head hurts!
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • PawPaulPawPaul Posts: 5,845 ✭
    "While a bit different, it should work the same way for regraded coins, particularly since CAC has said they do not confirm +'s or *'s or other qualifiers, just the base grade as being solid."

    every coin I know of (except for those submitted for designation review-which I'm not sure even exists anymore)

    that is submitted for a regrade , gets a new holder and a new serial #

    so I don't see how the bean could follow the coin ..............
  • golfer72golfer72 Posts: 3,588


    << <i>"While a bit different, it should work the same way for regraded coins, particularly since CAC has said they do not confirm +'s or *'s or other qualifiers, just the base grade as being solid."

    every coin I know of (except for those submitted for designation review-which I'm not sure even exists anymore)

    that is submitted for a regrade , gets a new holder and a new serial #

    so I don't see how the bean could follow the coin .............. >>

    Kind of what i said a few days ago. ( Think about it.If PCGS transferred the sticker to the new slab that would mean the stickers could be removed from one slab and put on another slab and still be intact. That would not work too well now would it for the validity of CAC stickers on a given slab. ) image
  • jacktheknifejacktheknife Posts: 1,547 ✭



    O'K, O'K. I realize that my original question was stupid. Of course, PCGS would not try to remove the sticker from the old holder and place it on the new holder. Mark Feld was able to address what I was really after with the thread/question. I should have read the post a little closer before submitting.

    Jack

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