If you just won this 1960 Topps #109 Boyer PSA 9, I think you got
itzagoner
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itzagoner
Posts: 8,753 ✭✭
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but then what the heck do I know.
mathew
drugs of choice
NHL hall of fame rookies
Steve
i guess it seems rather obvious now, but as the purchaser of a raw '56 Berra which was bid up by the same person, i now have more or less confirmed what naturally caused suspicion the day i won the card....hope to receive it soon, will keep you guys posted.
btw, i don't intend to B&M about the Berra since i placed my bid accordingly, it wouldn't matter anyways, but i'm concerned if someone else here got the shaft on the Boyer card.
If you are a non snipe bidder like me, you can always check the other bidders history, one glance at the bid report when have been a total red flag.
Not getting into the snipe debate just pointing out this was very easy to catch and you should always check out your competition.
<< <i>I still don't understand why anyone bids without using a snipe program. It just doesn't make sense. You just open yourself up to shilling if you don't use them.
but then what the Dpeck do I know.
mathew >>
<< <i>I still don't understand why anyone bids without using a snipe program. It just doesn't make sense. You just open yourself up to shilling if you don't use them.
but then what the heck do I know.
mathew >>
Sniping does NOT stop, hinder or detract shill bidding. Why do people believe this?
<< <i>It might be a brand new ebayer that doesn't know any better. I'm just wondering because their first bid was for $47, and then they went on to enter 19 more bids. I just think someone shilling thier auctions would be savy enough to avoid such a display. >>
check the seller's recent history and feedback....all sales and feedback from the same guy.
<< <i>i guess it seems rather obvious now, but as the purchaser of a raw '56 Berra which was bid up by the same person, i now have more or less confirmed what naturally caused suspicion the day i won the card....hope to receive it soon, will keep you guys posted.
btw, i don't intend to B&M about the Berra since i placed my bid accordingly, it wouldn't matter anyways, but i'm concerned if someone else here got the shaft on the Boyer card. >>
I missed this post when I commented. Seems strange about the early bids though.
<< <i>
<< <i>i guess it seems rather obvious now, but as the purchaser of a raw '56 Berra which was bid up by the same person, i now have more or less confirmed what naturally caused suspicion the day i won the card....hope to receive it soon, will keep you guys posted.
btw, i don't intend to B&M about the Berra since i placed my bid accordingly, it wouldn't matter anyways, but i'm concerned if someone else here got the shaft on the Boyer card. >>
I missed this post when I commented. Seems strange about the early bids though. >>
there are a few strange things.....all prior auctions came out of Arkansas, however, the Boyer came out of Oklahoma.....also, what sudden motivation would a person seeking random mid-to-higher grade cards from the 50's or 60's have to plop down a good chunk o' change on a low pop PSA 9?
again, i'm suspicious, and i appreciate the fact that there are some excellent detectives here, much more savvy than me....if i'm wrong, i'm wrong, but if i'm right, then hopefully someone will at least be informed.
<< <i>Sniping does NOT stop, hinder or detract shill bidding. Why do people believe this? >>
Most shill bids are done in response to an already placed bid. Many times, legit bids are also made in response to an already placed bid.
In this auction, all the shill bids were made in RESPONSE to already placed bids.
Here's all the bids in chronological order:
Oct-24-10 06:13:46 PDT US $31.00 a***a( 1879)
Oct-24-10 13:28:23 PDT US $59.99 2***t( 269)
Oct-24-10 14:00:39 PDT US $47.00 c***h( 1 )
Oct-24-10 14:00:52 PDT US $67.00 c***h( 1 )
Oct-24-10 21:52:52 PDT US $111.11 n***y( 2540)
Oct-24-10 22:35:07 PDT US $75.00 _***c( 1448)
Oct-25-10 06:45:40 PDT US $87.00 c***h( 1 )
Oct-25-10 06:45:56 PDT US $93.00 c***h( 1 )
Oct-25-10 07:19:52 PDT US $110.02 c***h( 1 )
Oct-25-10 07:20:03 PDT US $140.02 c***h( 1 )
Oct-25-10 17:04:48 PDT US $225.25 o***o( 349)
Oct-25-10 21:28:39 PDT US $160.02 c***h( 1 )
Oct-25-10 21:28:48 PDT US $180.02 c***h( 1 )
Oct-25-10 21:28:56 PDT US $202.02 c***h( 1 )
Oct-25-10 21:29:10 PDT US $212.02 c***h( 1 )
Oct-25-10 21:29:55 PDT US $220.02 c***h( 1 )
Oct-25-10 21:30:08 PDT US $250.02 c***h( 1 )
Nov-02-10 05:35:47 PDT US $318.89 d***1( 555)
Nov-02-10 05:41:31 PDT US $270.02 c***h( 1 )
Nov-02-10 05:41:46 PDT US $285.02 c***h( 1 )
Nov-02-10 05:55:50 PDT US $300.02 c***h( 1 )
Nov-02-10 07:02:26 PDT US $320.02 c***h( 1 )
Nov-02-10 12:53:39 PDT US $362.87 d***1( 555)
Nov-02-10 13:01:58 PDT US $330.02 c***h( 1 )
Nov-02-10 13:02:16 PDT US $340.02 c***h( 1 )
Nov-02-10 13:02:34 PDT US $350.02 c***h( 1 )
Nov-02-10 13:19:58 PDT US $360.02 c***h( 1 )
If you snipe, the shiller doesn't have the time to do this sort of intensive shilling. Or, if the (1) feedback guy was just a legit newbie, he wouldn't have the time to respond to a bid placed at the last second.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>
<< <i>I still don't understand why anyone bids without using a snipe program. It just doesn't make sense. You just open yourself up to shilling if you don't use them.
but then what the heck do I know.
mathew >>
Sniping does NOT stop, hinder or detract shill bidding. Why do people believe this? >>
what a completely foolish statement
What you might NOT comprehend is that by bidding early, you completely open yourself up to be shill bid up to your maximum. You CANNOT have this done to you if you snipe, that is absolute fact.
Your snipe will reflect the shill bids too. I think that is what SCT means.
So it is possible that it will not help. Unless of course you place your snipe early lose the auction.
If you win over the amount of the last shill bid you were shilled as well.
Steve
I have one guy that bids on my auctions not very often like once every 6 to 8 weeks but he bids like on 10 or 15 items real low bids and I think in the last 12 months has won 1 item off me, I looked at his bid history one time while he was bidding on my items: 21 bids all with me. now that looks like shill bidding the one good laugh I get is he has been on ebay for 9 years, 5 years longer than I have been on ebay. He has won a total of like 3 items off 3 different sellers in the last 2 years.
I know this is not the case here with this seller (I think) as someone pointed out some other evidence.
I guess my point is sometimes what looks like shill bidding isn't shill bidding.
I know it annoys the crap out of me when I have an item and a newbie (less than 25 rating) bids like 15 times on the same item all in like 1 or 2 dollar increments, because I worry it will effect the way others will bid on that item or the newbie bids 4 or 5 times on the same auction when No one else has even bid.
I still don't like snipe bidding and believe this is the reason there are less and less true 99 cent auctions if ebay would implement a program where if there were any bids on an auction with less than 5 minutes left it would extend the auction another 15 minutes, I think you would see more 99 cent auctions again.
it is a two edge sword. No buyer likes to get shilled and at the same time No seller wants to see a 100 dollar item sit at 99 cents till the last 10 seconds of an auction and hope for snipe bids.
I also think that a smart crooked scam seller would set up more than 1 ebay account and do his own snipe bidding with like 15 to 30 seconds left. (but there is a lot of stupid sellers/scam artists).
I also think a smart buyer would set his limit on what he is willing to spend on an item and stop there, but sometimes buyers get caught up in the heat of the moment.
Like anything a few bad apples ruin it for the rest of us and ebay needs to step up their efforts to stop shill bidding & the scam buyers and also start showing how many times a buyer has not paid for an item. I also think if ebay would block the snipe bidding programs you would see more 99 cent auctions again because without the snipe programs buyers would bid earlier on auctions thus again causing more 99 cent auctions to be listed. JMHO
Ok I'm off my soapbox. fire away
<< <i>Drew it doesn't if other people are bidding and they are the ones being shilled.
Your snipe will reflect the shill bids too. I think that is what SCT means.
So it is possible that it will not help. Unless of course you place your snipe early lose the auction.
If you win over the amount of the last shill bid you were shilled as well.
Steve >>
that's true too Steve, and my apologies to SCT for being confrontational.
The way I bid is after finding a card I'm after and have researched recent sales, I set a snipe and watch the item. If I see anything unusual up to the last day, and many times up to the last hour or so that seems off to me, I back out or decide it's still worth the price.
Edited to add: I don't care if I'm being shilled to a price I'm still comfortable buying the card at, collusion and things of that nature happen everywhere, shill bidding doesn't surprise me, it just confirms the character of person you are dealing with.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I still don't understand why anyone bids without using a snipe program. It just doesn't make sense. You just open yourself up to shilling if you don't use them.
but then what the heck do I know.
mathew >>
Sniping does NOT stop, hinder or detract shill bidding. Why do people believe this? >>
what a completely foolish statement
What you might NOT comprehend is that by bidding early, you completely open yourself up to be shill bid up to your maximum. You CANNOT have this done to you if you snipe, that is absolute fact. >>
well I disagree, if a smart scam seller wants to shill bid his auction why not snipe bid his own auction with like 2 or 3 bids the last 30 seconds of an auction.
I guess what i mean is if I have an item that I won't take less than 90 dollars for it. Start the auction at 99 cents and then snipe my own item with 10 seconds left with a 89.00 bid. you might have won the item for 60 until that last second 89.00 bid and since your max was 91.00 you won the item for 90 instead of 60.
I also believe snipe bidding is killing the 99 cent auctions as you see more and more auctions with a lot higher starting bids.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I still don't understand why anyone bids without using a snipe program. It just doesn't make sense. You just open yourself up to shilling if you don't use them.
but then what the heck do I know.
mathew >>
Sniping does NOT stop, hinder or detract shill bidding. Why do people believe this? >>
what a completely foolish statement
What you might NOT comprehend is that by bidding early, you completely open yourself up to be shill bid up to your maximum. You CANNOT have this done to you if you snipe, that is absolute fact. >>
well I disagree, if a smart scam seller wants to shill bid his auction why not snipe bid his own auction with like 2 or 3 bids the last 30 seconds of an auction.
I guess what i mean is if I have an item that I won't take less than 90 dollars for it. Start the auction at 99 cents and then snipe my own item with 10 seconds left with a 89.00 bid. you might have won the item for 60 until that last second 89.00 bid and since your max was 91.00 you won the item for 90 instead of 60.
I also believe snipe bidding is killing the 99 cent auctions as you see more and more auctions with a lot higher starting bids. >>
How can you disagree, when just shown the shiller, continued to bump the person's bid. The fact the seller could have done so otherwise, does not lose the fact, on what the seller actually did. What happened completely trumps, what may of happened if things were different.
Hard to say if sniping is hurting 0.99 auctions, as auctions in general are dead. The stores hold 95%+ of eBay's sport card.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I still don't understand why anyone bids without using a snipe program. It just doesn't make sense. You just open yourself up to shilling if you don't use them.
but then what the heck do I know.
mathew >>
Sniping does NOT stop, hinder or detract shill bidding. Why do people believe this? >>
what a completely foolish statement
What you might NOT comprehend is that by bidding early, you completely open yourself up to be shill bid up to your maximum. You CANNOT have this done to you if you snipe, that is absolute fact. >>
well I disagree, if a smart scam seller wants to shill bid his auction why not snipe bid his own auction with like 2 or 3 bids the last 30 seconds of an auction.
I guess what i mean is if I have an item that I won't take less than 90 dollars for it. Start the auction at 99 cents and then snipe my own item with 10 seconds left with a 89.00 bid. you might have won the item for 60 until that last second 89.00 bid and since your max was 91.00 you won the item for 90 instead of 60.
I also believe snipe bidding is killing the 99 cent auctions as you see more and more auctions with a lot higher starting bids. >>
How can you disagree, when just shown the shiller, continued to bump the person's bid. The fact the seller could have done so otherwise, does not lose the fact, on what the seller actually did. What happened completely trumps, what may of happened if things were different.
Hard to say if sniping is hurting 0.99 auctions, as auctions in general are dead. The stores hold 95%+ of eBay's sport card. >>
yes there are a lot of reasons auctions are down the economy being the biggest reason.
I also know that snipe bidding is not going to go away , just like I know scam sellers who shill bid their own auctions are not going away, as ebay's only concern is the bottom line and the higher the price just means more bucks for ebay.
I do agree though that the large number of snipe bids clearly reduces the number of $0.99 entry auctions. This one is not hard to fight. There are a ton of sellers that pull auctins with cold feet or start them with very high opening bids.
Many items jump as much as 500% at the end and while many agree markets are efficiant an item that should sell for $100 that is at $20 with 8 seconds to go is clearly unsettling for a seller and hence the response is a much higher opening bid or a canceled auction.
There has a been a huge number of retracted bids on EBAY lately and the easy way for a seller to do the same is simply cancel the auction.
<< <i>that's pretty funny stuff right there. >>
What's got into these boards lately?
Are we losing confrontational, in-your-face members or something?
<< <i>I am not going to argue the snipe bid as if you don't snipe it is a futile effort against those that do.
I do agree though that the large number of snipe bids clearly reduces the number of $0.99 entry auctions. This one is not hard to fight. There are a ton of sellers that pull auctins with cold feet or start them with very high opening bids.
Many items jump as much as 500% at the end and while many agree markets are efficiant an item that should sell for $100 that is at $20 with 8 seconds to go is clearly unsettling for a seller and hence the response is a much higher opening bid or a canceled auction.
There has a been a huge number of retracted bids on EBAY lately and the easy way for a seller to do the same is simply cancel the auction. >>
Ok, I'll agrue the other side for you, that snipes did not cause the $0.99 auctions to leave.
It was not snipes that did it....it was eBay fees. I don't think I have ever heard a seller complain about snipes...but fees, several hundred times from a small eBay population.
My average item is about $50.00 with 4 photos. Why should I pay ~$2.00 for it being listing for a week, when I can pay $.05 for a month in store?
That is the heart of the reason the stores have replaced the auction. It is MUCH cheaper for the seller. It has nothing to do with sniping.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>Edited to add: I don't care if I'm being shilled to a price I'm still comfortable buying the card at, collusion and things of that nature happen everywhere, shill bidding doesn't surprise me, it just confirms the character of person you are dealing with >>
Now we are on the same page.
Steve
<< <i>Are we losing confrontational, in-your-face members or something? >>
From what I have seen as of late, yes.
Steve
<< <i>From what I have seen as of late, yes. >>
Non stop hatefull messages and remarks do nothing positive.
<< <i>Good hard discussion and debate is good.
Non stop hatefull messages and remarks do nothing positive. >>
<< <i>shilled
Looking at this it surely looks like shilling to me...
Buyers are idiots.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
<< <i>Sellers are crooks.
Buyers are idiots. >>
thanks Ralph. grain of salt added.
so here's a bombshell: the Berra which i purchased appears to have been compromised by a sharp object, IMO. seller notified, stay tuned.
suspicions now confirmed, auctions were ABSOLUTELY shilled......by a family member with the same friggin last name. LOFL. stay away boys 'n' girls. Yogi's going back.
I agree that sniping lowers the possibility of being shilled
I agree that sniping does not always eliminate shillers
I agree that sniping has created/partially created the onslaught of BIN's
I agree that I was surprised that the shillers were not our friends from **u**a**s (Letters blocked, didnt want to implicate the guilty)
I agree that shilling was definitely the case here
I agree that too much agreeing can make you less suspicious of others