My tale of woe...

angelenocarddude

Hello all. Some help and thoughts here?

About a week ago, bought a box of wax packs. This from a guy who I knew from previous successful transaction, etc. Have no doubt of his integrity. Idea was to open a few, see what I was in for, and then decide to either open all or grade some packs

Received box and the packs had mostly been dinged up, so no longer gradable or sellable as mint packs. He knocked off $150 bucks (offered to accept return), and I accepted. Started opening packs and:
a. most (not all) had quite a bit of adhesion from the wax down to the top card. Didn't feel like most wax packs. Resealed? Heat? Any experience with this. They looked fine. No telltale signs of monkey business, but at this point, I started doubting whether these were legit and so couldn't ethically pass them along to other people. So...
b. opened em all. EVERY SINGLE card in EVERY SINGLE PACK was a common. I mean, I got Jerry Reuss and Glenn Beckert, but not even Steve Garvey. In anyone's experience, is this beyond possible statistical odds?

Are either a or b known situations? Is it possible I'm just the unluckiest guy in town or have I definitively been scammed?

Also, Now what to do? I have parsed out the 15 best cards (all commons) and thinking about submitting to try to get some cash back, but see on feebay, 9s can go as low as 15 bucks. Any advice on best ways to sell 9s of commons? I do dream of having the first PSA 9 Tommy Davis, but I see the 8s are like 30-40 bucks.

I do have several hundred right out of the pack minis now, if anyone’s interested.

jeffcbay

Things you must do right now...

Post this on the main board (SPORTS CARDS & MEMORABILIA FORUM), so more people see your story.

OUT the seller, so none of us make the same mistake.

Only buy your authentic unopened wax from BBCExchange

I take it this is a 1975 Topps Mini box? OUCH, that's a very expensive mistake. I'm sorry this happened to you. I did the same thing with a 1978 Topps Baseball box... bought it from ebay... all resealed. Never made that mistake again, thanks to this forum.

angelenocarddude

Thanks. Question remains: do older wax packs sometimes stick down to top card, as described. Had to be peeled away from top card. OR is this clear sign of tampering?

Guy who sold me doesn't need to be outed. He definitely didn't know. It's whoever sold it to him, I believe. I'm screwed out of 800+ bucks either way.

hammered

Just curious, what year is it?
Regardless, IMO it is virtually impossible to open an entire box without even a minor star hit.
And if there was excess wax, that's another bad sign.
I'd say definitely resealed.

angelenocarddude

yeah... what a disaster. really no way i can get any satisfaction from ebay now that i've opened them all.

they are 1975 minis

hammered

Before you put them on ebay I'd try to get some resolution from the seller
He may not have removed the stars and resealed the packs but he is nevertheless responsible for them since he sold them to you
He may say the packs are opened and now worthless but that won't work
Opening the packs was necessary to expose the resealing
So if it were me, I'd send pics to someone with more knowledge than me to confirm my suspicion
And if they were indeed resealed I'd file a paypal claim

1954

Sorry that happened to you. I have always bought boxes straight from unopened cases or bought the entire case. It burns me up hearing that people are opening the packs and then sealing them back up for resale. Again, I am sorry that happened.

angelenocarddude

I'm 99% sure that he wasn't responsible. I'm not even sure that the guy who sold him to him was (seller vouches), but it's really moot. i have maybe 75 bucks of mini commons that i spent well over 10x for.

photos not really possible since all the packs opened and wrappers/gum tossed. just have the box and the cards.

jeffcbay

When I bought my bad box of 1978 Topps, it wasn't the ebay seller who resealed them. The original seller who sold my seller the box, contacted me and refunded my money. Apparently the person HE bought the box from was wrong about it's authenticity. So I understand that the paper trail can run pretty deep, but there is a paper trail none the less. You should contact your seller and find out where they got the box. You can not just leave this alone, because it will happen again to someone else. Take some responsibility and effort to help keep fraud out of our hobby.

angelenocarddude

i have been communicating with him. i'm not the sort who has money to piss away like that.

favoritethings

I agree with what has been stated here a couple of times - This should be pursued. You did not get what you paid for! The packs may as well have had 1987 topps baseball in them - would you feel any different? Perhaps then it would just be a little less "possible" that this is somehow legit - It is clearly not. A whole box and NO stars or minor stars is ridiculous. I would start with the seller - if you have done/ do business with him, he has a vested interest in helping to make this right. From the sound of it, he sounded like he was willing to work with you. If not, I would pursue it through Paypal/ebay - File a report claiming fraud (It doesn't matter if the seller knew or not - you were on the receiving end of a fraudulent transaction). Be sure to save all the cards and the box - I would put together a list of all the cards to show that they were all commons. For sure don't let this rest without some effort toward compensation. Be well. Good luck.

-Howard

angelenocarddude

i filed with ebay with stated intention of working out some sort of a refund. i'm willing to eat 10 or 15% and keep the commons. he knows by now. waiting for response.

fiveniner

I bought an 84 Topps box in Jackson Tennessee several years back at a card store when I was traveling down south.Not one pack had a star card except Daryl Strawaberry in the box.Later I noticed what appeared to be paste residue on the wrapper.That said it all.Never been down there since and am sure he no longer has a shop.Worst experience I haver had with unopened.

alnavman

I had issues with a number of 1984 packs also a few years ago....all commons, no major stars..etc, etc....luckily I didn't spend big time $$$ but still was pissed....I filled it as a lesson learned and moved on.... we probably all have been burned at one time or another.... funny thing is the cards I bought were from someone my brother recommended as not being a problem but in my case it turned into a bad experience.

theskypilot

how many cards per pack, did only one card per pack have wax stain, was gum all uniform(same size), was gum stuck to the bottom card (or was gum in middle of cards), were cards in same order in packs (all facing one way), how many duped did you get. All these factors will go a long way in determinning legitimacy of box. Also stange collation sometimes happens ( just bought a blaster box of topps 2010 football and every regular card in box was a rookie card)

SKY

angelenocarddude

no, the gum didn't stick to any of the cards, which i also thought was very weird. Also weird - no gum stains on cards. I didn't count cards. they were sometimes all face one direction, sometimes half and half, which I think i remember is the way they are supposed to be.

In any case, I offered to eat 10-20% of the cost and return them, but he said he "felt really bad," but (basically) tough toenails. So (drumroll)....

Ebay sided with me. Said that regardless of his intentions, he is responsible. Returning the opened cards in the orig box today on Ebay's dime and will get full refund. He would have done better to take care of his seller. I actually feel a bit bad for the guy, since I think he got hosed by his local seller...

but not that bad. What is a buyer of baloney supposed to do but fight back? So, I fought the law and I won.

Mickey71

I actually don't feel bad for the seller or buyer. My reasoning is this....there is no perfect way to tell if packs are resealed. I can't believe so many people are buying this stuff. It seems like every pack rip that involves minis turns out terrible.

Correction: There is a way to tell if a pack has been resealed.....If you open a 1952 pack and it contains a Mantle-that baby has not been resealed and if you open any box from any year and you do not get any stars-that baby has been resealed.

1954

This brings up a good point and I am glad that Ebay is protecting you, however let's say that I have a box of 1971 Topps that has never seen the light of day. If I sold the box on Ebay and someone dishonest opens the box up and pulls the cards out of the packs and inserts his crap back into the packs. Then the buyer calls up ebay and says that the box he bought from me was not legit and he wants a refund. How is this fair to me as a seller? I lose $9K on my good box, the buyer gets all of my good cards and I get his 240 crap cards that he bought at a flee market back in return. It seems to me that Ebay is hanging the seller out to dry in every situation and giving the buyer all the power. This is why I don't sell on Ebay anymore. Too risky for me.

Shane

cards651

Valid point, Shane. That's a tough one to solve.

I think Mickey71 is correct. How can people be buying this stuff? You might as well put your money into lottery tickets.

angelenocarddude

definitely true. for what it's worth, seller brought this up and said that he was trusting my integrity. now, i've taken a lot of logic and can see that this means:
"i believe that you didn't do that, so therefore am telling you that it's too bad that you got beat in this deal."

also, i offered as an arbitration to pay X% of the total amount as i didn't really think fair for him to bear all the cost given that I opened them. he rejected that offer. that's when i was out of options. if i had been just a straight scammer, i would have just reported directly to paypal (not ebay) as item not as described. paypal says send items back. i mail back dead cat in a box, and get my money. i think everyone knows that, right?

i do feel bad for seller, but on other hand, i tried to make it right and he said no. what else could i do at that point?

angelenocarddude

oh, and i think in the hypothetical you posit, you would have to take photos of unopened packs and have as evidence, as (i assume) there is no way they could look the same after opening. the seals and whatnot. right?

WinPitcher

Dude

Next time you want to buy some minis speak with the guys in the other forum who have a thread related to them.

Some of them bought much of it when it was auctioned last year and some have boxes for sale at times.

Glad it worked out for you. The seller IMO was wrong in telling you that he could do nothing for you.

Mickey.....Some people can tell if packs are resealed. Steve Hart for one, and guys like Grote can as well.

When I was actively selling and buying boxes I could tell too. Resealed packs do not have the original roller marks.

Steve

WinPitcher

Sorry, one last point/question.

After you get your refund out this creep who said he was 'sorry you got beat in this deal'

Steve

celesterussell

I dont know where the seller is from, but if possible, you may want to have somebody go to his house or business establishment to square things away with the transaction.

that always works