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Topps packaging ?: 'Possible for an 85 Topps rackpack to be in a '83 packaging/header card? Picture

MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
I have 2 1985 Topps rack packs here.
One has the standard header packaging indicating 48 cards and is marked...0-981-67-01-5
The other says 51 cards and is the same pack header used in 1983 rackpacks. It's serial # is marked...0-034-67-01-3
(Can this one be real?)
image

Comments

  • hhmag70hhmag70 Posts: 2,107
    What other stars are showing on the wrong header pack? I see Clemens and Ryno.
  • jimradjimrad Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭
    If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it's probably a duck.image
    Positive transactions with: Bkritz,Bosox1976,Brick,captainthreeputt,cpettimd,craigger,cwazzy,DES1984,Dboneesq,daddymc,Downtown1974,EAsports,EagleEyeKid,fattymacs,gameusedhoop,godblessUSA,goose3,KatsCards,mike22y2k,
    MULLINS5,1966CUDA,nam812,nightcrawler,OAKESY25,PowderedH2O,relaxed,RonBurgundy,samsgirl214,shagrotn77,swartz1,slantycouch,Statman,Wabittwax
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    Clemens and McGwire!

    Quack quack?

    Who and how can someone make this?
    image
  • hhmag70hhmag70 Posts: 2,107
    Can't believe they didn't load the backside with Ryan, Ripken and Gooden.
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    DUDE! what the F, how is this possible? there is really someone out there that makes packs?
  • lsutigers1973lsutigers1973 Posts: 11,093 ✭
    Never seen that before. Check the sides (top or bottom of each card). Look for a very small slit. I can't think of any other way to get the 1985 cards in a 1983 cellophane rack.
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    I've seen packs with an obvious slit before, this is a great looking pack and no way to be tampered with.

    It is just in a 1983 "sleeve." This pack was submitted to GAI (not by me) in 2009 and they stated..."Questionable Authenticity" and did not grade it.
  • OAKESY25OAKESY25 Posts: 4,726 ✭✭✭
    if gai passed you know it must be bad
  • mknezmknez Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭
    Hell if GAI won't slab it.....

    ------
    stupid print dots

  • SmuggoSmuggo Posts: 425 ✭
    Best I can figure if GAI won't slab it, it must be a mirage.
    Collecting Pre-War, Pre-War HOF Types, Pre-War Postcards
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've seen fake star cello packs made with wrappers from later years, so not surprising to see a rack, too...there is a misconception among unopened collectors that racks are "safer" than other packs because they are difficult to reseal, but Steve Hart has said that he sees almost as many fake racks as he does other packs.

    Edit: The last number in the product code is a good indicator of when the rack or pack was produced by Topps...and while you will see packs wrapped in wrappers with a previous year's product (for example, 1975 cellos in 1974 wrappers and 1977 cellos in 1975 wrappers, you should never see a pack with a product code from a year LATER than the year of issue...finding that is akin to finding a 1977 card in a 1976 pack..


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    Just to be clear, when this pack was sent into GAI a year+ ago, Mike Baker stated that its authenticity was "questionable" - not necessarily "fake!"

    It is certainly possible that an 1985 pack could have been sealed/manufactured by Topps in an '83 wrapper like a few times seen in the 70's.

    I am obviously very skeptical (because it is McGwire & Clemens on top) but, I am not giving up hope that someone somewhere has seen another one like this and has any knowledge or concrete evidence to prove it either way.

    Thank you everyone!
  • thunderdanthunderdan Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭
    Muggy, thanks for keeping your shirt on in the pic.

    I'm sure you're ripped and all, but after all the topless male photos from Scott and Geordie, I'm a little burned out.
    image


  • brendanb438brendanb438 Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭
    That is one nice looking fake rack. image


    For Shiats and giggles what cards are on the back of that rack?
  • 1989FleerBillRipkencollector1989FleerBillRipkencollector Posts: 4,590
    All you need to make a fake rack is a roll of unused cellophane wrapping and a heat source, right? Seems pretty easy and scary.

    The more I look, I see so much stuff is backdoored. i.e. 2009 Bowman Baseball Red (supposed to be 1/1) I know of 150 unnumbered sheets. Based on the shipping label, it's safe to assume 900 sheets were backdoored! All someone needs is a stamp....

    Once I turn to the dark side, I plan on turning these into some packs. image

    image
    imageimageimage
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    No dark side for you yet, if so - you would have a 1989 Fleer rackpack with 3 different Billy Ripken versions on top.
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    <<For Shiats and giggles what cards are on the back of that rack?>>

    On the back is a 1952 Christmas rackpack with Mantle face up!

    Nah, nobody on back!

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just to be clear, when this pack was sent into GAI a year+ ago, Mike Baker stated that its authenticity was "questionable" - not necessarily "fake!"

    "Questionable authenticity" is just a euphemism for fake, lol...

    Though Topps was known for using packaging/wrappers from previous years to produce packs, so 1985 cards in a rack selleve with a 1983 product code may be similar to the 1976 wax packs that were packaged using 1974 wrappers...I'm not an 80s unopened collector, but maybe someone here has seen this type of rack before?



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • 1989FleerBillRipkencollector1989FleerBillRipkencollector Posts: 4,590


    << <i><<For Shiats and giggles what cards are on the back of that rack?>>

    On the back is a 1952 Christmas rackpack with Mantle face up!

    Nah, nobody on back! >>



    Did 1985 T have collation patterns? If so was it for the "full" section?

    I remember not too long ago I had 2 cello packs come back QA from PSA. They both had FF on top. Seals looked good to me. So I opened them and the cards were in sequence. *smacks head* Doubt a scammer would of put them in order. Esp. since the cellos had 2 different sequences (top half/bottom half) so looking at the bottom card would not help authenticate.
    imageimageimage
  • TabeTabe Posts: 6,185 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Did 1985 T have collation patterns? If so was it for the "full" section?

    I remember not too long ago I had 2 cello packs come back QA from PSA. They both had FF on top. Seals looked good to me. So I opened them and the cards were in sequence. *smacks head* Doubt a scammer would of put them in order. Esp. since the cellos had 2 different sequences (top half/bottom half) so looking at the bottom card would not help authenticate. >>


    Yes, 1985T had collation patterns.

    Tabe
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    WOW! Look at this...

    I just happened to search on ebay for 1985 rackpacks sealed in a 1983 wrapper in hopes that my Clemens AND McGwire on top could be real and I found 3...
    image
    '85 rack in an '83 wrapper
    another
    mine...
    image

    Hey jimrad, no quack quack!?!
  • jimradjimrad Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭
    QUACK !!
    Positive transactions with: Bkritz,Bosox1976,Brick,captainthreeputt,cpettimd,craigger,cwazzy,DES1984,Dboneesq,daddymc,Downtown1974,EAsports,EagleEyeKid,fattymacs,gameusedhoop,godblessUSA,goose3,KatsCards,mike22y2k,
    MULLINS5,1966CUDA,nam812,nightcrawler,OAKESY25,PowderedH2O,relaxed,RonBurgundy,samsgirl214,shagrotn77,swartz1,slantycouch,Statman,Wabittwax
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    Hi jimrad,

    I would have totally agreed with you before and I actually separated that pack from the rest of my collection BUT... don't these packs with/in '83 wrappers now give it a fighting chance?
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It was not uncommon for Topps to use previous year's packaging in production. If you see 1983 cards in a 1985 rack sleeve, then you have a problem, LOL..


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • jimradjimrad Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭
    Calling Marty McFly
    Positive transactions with: Bkritz,Bosox1976,Brick,captainthreeputt,cpettimd,craigger,cwazzy,DES1984,Dboneesq,daddymc,Downtown1974,EAsports,EagleEyeKid,fattymacs,gameusedhoop,godblessUSA,goose3,KatsCards,mike22y2k,
    MULLINS5,1966CUDA,nam812,nightcrawler,OAKESY25,PowderedH2O,relaxed,RonBurgundy,samsgirl214,shagrotn77,swartz1,slantycouch,Statman,Wabittwax
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    Hello?
  • mtcardsmtcards Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭
    I would say anything is possible, but if you were good enough in skill to make a fake rack pack look good, would you also not have the sense to also get the right rack pack? Especially when an 83 rack is more than the 85 racks? I would tend to err on the side of caution and actually not buy the packs myself, but would also seem to think that the pack is real.
    IT IS ALWAYS CHEAPER TO NOT SELL ON EBAY
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    Thanks mtcards, it is actually a pack I have in my collection.

    I got it from a very reliable source many years ago, i wish PSA graded rackpacks...
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    look at this 1985 pack in a 1983 wrapper...
    1983 wrapper

    It is in the same wrapper as the ungraded pack I have with McGwire and Clemens ON TOP (see picture earlier) which was not graded by GAI because they said it was in an '83 wrapper and couldn't say with certainty that it was authentic.

    PSA.... please grade rackpacks soon!

  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    I just wanted to revisit this thread after recently taking note of many 1985 rackpacks with 1983 wrappers.

    Most of these are all commons showing on top. After I present all of these samples, I have no reason to think my pack (Clemens and McGwire) is not authentic. And, it's actually a beauty!
    image

    Here are recent examples of '85 rackpacks in '83 wrappers.

    image
    auction with 83 wrapper
    auction
    ebay 85 pack in 83 wrapper
    more

    Hey brendan438 <<That is one nice looking fake rack>> You sure?

  • CrazyMind2017CrazyMind2017 Posts: 1,205 ✭
    All those 83 wrappers with 85 cards in them had at least one star/HOFer in front - Boggs, Ripken, Reggie, McCovey, etc. Where are the ones with 3 commons in front and 3 commons in back?
  • MuggymanMuggyman Posts: 688
    CrazyMind2017, you can't possibly call a 3rd year Boggs worth 50 cents and/or a glossy all star insert card of Willie McCovey, Cal Ripken, etc. worth 1 cent a "star" pack.

    I simply supplied 5+ packs showing these 1983 wrappers, I have come across plenty more, those were just a few auctions I saved.

    EDIT: Basically, the only stars would be McGwire USA card, Clemens, Gooden, Puckett, Ryan, and really that's it! You can't at all enter into the discussion that inserted glossy card on top of every pack.
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