Someone please explain 4_sharp_corners to me!!!!
jbox
Posts: 408 ✭✭
How does this business model work? Does he train Chinese kids to grade raw cards!! Where is he buying all this unopened stuff to grade? What kind of discount does PSA give this kind of volume? Someone please explain this to me!!!!!!
JBox
JBox
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They are one of the few that have been working this business model for a long time and have made it work (well) for themselves. Process management is the key on the Ops. side and efficient buying on the sales side.
CrazySC [Solomon] used to do pretty well. Daryl from DSLSports seems to do okay, too, although DSL seems to have taken a few respites over the years.
<< <i>How does this business model work? Does he train Chinese kids to grade raw cards!! Where is he buying all this unopened stuff to grade? What kind of discount does PSA give this kind of volume? Someone please explain this to me!!!!!!
JBox >>
WHY NOT WRITE TO THEM AND ASK ????
Below are a couple of links: (Hope they work)
This was the second or third time that the Orr was auctioned. Someone just bought it at $225 but it had been listed at maybe $300(?) the first time. Someone has bid on the Roberts which started at $300.
1968 Topps Hockey
1968 Hockey Orr
These are the higher priced examples. They actually sell a ton of graded cards in the $3 range as well. I have bought a lot of 1976 Topps Football and 1980 Topps basketball.
If you like basketball, here is a PSA 10 Kevin Kunnert that they have been unable to sell. This started at maybe $100(?) four or five weeks ago. It didn't sell at $15 and is now starting at $10.
1975 Kunnert PSA 10
Hope this helps. - Kevin
They are a great place to pick up cards for a set. The have commons to stars,.
How do I say this - they seem to get some pretty nice grades on some of their cards. Not sure how much the volume "helps" them.
Shawn
Josh Wilker - Cardboard Gods
Currently collecting 1934 Butterfinger, 1969 Nabisco, 1991 Topps Desert Shield (in PSA 9 or 10), and 1990 Donruss Learning Series (in PSA 10).
JBox
...I do agree that they seem to get some iffy cards through as 10's.
And here lies the core of any potential complaint some would have with this business model. It could be argued that the same card 4SC could get a PSA 10 out of, we may only get a PSA 9 based on the fact that we do not do the incredible amount of volume or consistent business with PSA as they.
I personally would have no proof that PSA services/grades are directly or indirectly influenced by the business relationships they maintain, but to look around at the rest of the free market system for similar examples...in which there would be plenty. I think this in an of itself drives us to speculate...
On the flip side, has Joe himself ever commented on this type of perception for us to have a stronger basis for assuming innocense on PSA's part? Does anyone know for certain the grading process internally at PSA that would eliminate any perceived doubts of unbiased grading? Has anyone looked at the overall data and percentage of populations over time since these business have come into existance? Wouldn't the population of 9's and 10's be exploding based on the volume of cards they have submitted over the years?
By the way, what kind of bankroll does a company have to have to buy up this much raw and/or unopened boxes/cases?
<< <i>...I do agree that they seem to get some iffy cards through as 10's.
By the way, what kind of bankroll does a company have to have to buy up this much raw and/or unopened boxes/cases? >>
Probably much lower than BBCE, Dave & Adam's, and even some of the Auction Houses. I imagine that with $200K - $250K would be more than sufficient to build a scaled operation like this -- and then it is about managing the cash flow and inventory.
Shane
They get lots of marginal 10's simply because they submit so many cards.
Plus they submit plenty of cards (if ya know what I mean)
Steve
<< <i>At the National this year 4SC's was running around the show before the public got in buying all the sets that they could find. They have dealers that hold the sets for them so they can view them before they sell to the others is one way they get their material.
Shane >>
Now this is the kind of stuff I find interesting!
<< <i>...I do agree that they seem to get some iffy cards through as 10's.
And here lies the core of any potential complaint some would have with this business model. It could be argued that the same card 4SC could get a PSA 10 out of, we may only get a PSA 9 based on the fact that we do not do the incredible amount of volume or consistent business with PSA as they.
I personally would have no proof that PSA services/grades are directly or indirectly influenced by the business relationships they maintain, but to look around at the rest of the free market system for similar examples...in which there would be plenty. I think this in an of itself drives us to speculate...
On the flip side, has Joe himself ever commented on this type of perception for us to have a stronger basis for assuming innocense on PSA's part? Does anyone know for certain the grading process internally at PSA that would eliminate any perceived doubts of unbiased grading? Has anyone looked at the overall data and percentage of populations over time since these business have come into existance? Wouldn't the population of 9's and 10's be exploding based on the volume of cards they have submitted over the years?
By the way, what kind of bankroll does a company have to have to buy up this much raw and/or unopened boxes/cases? >>
In theory, the graders are not suppose to know the identity of the person/company submitting the order....if true (ha!), would the grader not know when a multi-thousand card submission falls on their desk that its from 4SC just by common sense? Who else would submit such huge orders? Anyway, I do a lot of buying from 4SC and they are terrific.
PSA might like the biz the big subbers send in, but I doubt that the graders themselves give a rat's as*
This is a completely plausible statement. Well stated!
Anyway, in all seriousness. I looked over their inventory of cards for sale. I see many cards that they thought were worthy of subbing and truly are very nice. These are cards that any of us would have perhaps submitted ourselves and got basically the same grades they got which are all over the board. I see very few 10's on cards that are tough to get a 10 and also saw stuff as low as a 7 that I'm sure we would have been scratching our heads about. Basically, I think the grading for these guys is on the up and up based on what I have observed in their inventory. I think the attraction for them to use PSA is a heck of a pricing deal based on volumes of cards submitted...so much so that, how can they complain when PSA grades it like they see it regardless of who is subbing it. PSA is the unarguable front runner in grading and their label fetches the most money...as long as that is the case and the discount to grade cards is deep enough, 4SC takes the bad with the good and accepts that sometimes they kick and sometimes they get kicked(ya, thats right, I just gave you an INXS reference). At the end of the day, the material they open and sub is pristine and earns its own grades.