My first, and last experience, with Tulving.
30AnvZ28
Posts: 1,619
I will not ever do business with them. I am not posting this to start an argument, nor ask for your opinion on pricing.
I called asking a question between two prices. The prices for a PR-70 example, were LESS thess then an ungraded example (By about 15%). This did not make sense. I do not have 3 coins to sell them, but called to find out why the difference.
The pricing I am refering to is as follows, word for word, from your website.
2006 Proof American Buffalo-In Original US Mint Holder - Minumum Order is 3 Coins - Buy @ $115 Per Coin Over Spot.
2006 Proof American Buffalo PCGS Graded PR-70DCAM
Comes with original US Mint Holder- Minumum Order is 3 Coins- Buy @ $1359 per coin.
My concern is that the buy price for the PCGS PR-70DCAM is LESS then an ungraded coin.
I asked the customer service representative, and he said "I dont understand what you mean." I attempted to re-explain what I was reading, when he rudely, and sternly interupted me, and stated "Our prices on the website are what we buy at, Gotta Go" and hung up on me.
I called asking a question between two prices. The prices for a PR-70 example, were LESS thess then an ungraded example (By about 15%). This did not make sense. I do not have 3 coins to sell them, but called to find out why the difference.
The pricing I am refering to is as follows, word for word, from your website.
2006 Proof American Buffalo-In Original US Mint Holder - Minumum Order is 3 Coins - Buy @ $115 Per Coin Over Spot.
2006 Proof American Buffalo PCGS Graded PR-70DCAM
Comes with original US Mint Holder- Minumum Order is 3 Coins- Buy @ $1359 per coin.
My concern is that the buy price for the PCGS PR-70DCAM is LESS then an ungraded coin.
I asked the customer service representative, and he said "I dont understand what you mean." I attempted to re-explain what I was reading, when he rudely, and sternly interupted me, and stated "Our prices on the website are what we buy at, Gotta Go" and hung up on me.
0
Comments
<< <i>I have been extremely pleased with Tulving. Customer since 2004. Zero problems. >>
Thats what most people have said. I have considered buying from them a few times. After that however, I wont.
"As the only one here and all lines ringing, I did not have the time for your questions. I felt is was more important to answer the ringing phone, Hannes."
And my response (which was much more "informal" then the original)
Thats all you had to say on the phone. If you dont mind, when you do get a minute, just take a look at what im seeing. If im wrong, then I appologize, but I dont think it makes sense for a PR-70 coin to be "bought" at less then one in OGP.
I understand, however when Ive sat here and talked to another friend of mine about going halves on a 20 ct Pamp Suisse 1oz Gold for over $20K, I figured there might be a little customer service going on.
I run a business myself, but damn, I would be gone in a heartbeat if I talked to my customers like that.
Let me know what you see if you get a chance, and hopefully we can move forward.
<< <i>It's not meant to be a cuddly-nurturing-thoughtful experience. The firm specializes in good prices for product, when purchased in volume ($20k+). You deal with it, or you don't. >>
It doesnt have to be... but some explination on pricing when asked when possibly spending $20k + is needed... If it isnt needed for you, I have a bridge for sale.
<< <i>Hannes hardly ever sleeps, he's up at all hours taking big ticket orders and making large buys, and maybe he couldn't take the time to handle a theoretical discussion, which he may not have fully understood. Obviously something was wrong with the relative pricing on the web site, so if you had the raw coins to sell in OGP you might have wished to sell, but if they were PCGS 70s then don't sell to him, there're plenty of other buyers for those. I don't think you have a legitimate gripe. >>
My gripe was on the way he handled things... not the pricing. Like I said in the first sentence. I am up 18-20 hours a day, with 16 or so of those hours at my business. If I treated people like that, we wouldnt be around anymore. His lifestyle is not my problem. Providing that customer service, REGUARDLESS who it is, is not going to keep customers.
I have delt with some of the most wealthy people in the country. I am 26 years old, and started my business at 24. I have a customer list that includes the former CEO of Gucci, former CEO of Western Union, the current CEO of CVR Energy, Tara Lipinski, CEO of Craft Machine, etc. I had no idea who any of these people were upon first meeting. Think if I would have acted like that I would still do business with them? NO... PERIOD.
<< <i>Even reading only your version of what transpired, it's apparent to me you're making a mountain out of a molehill, and I don't think it justifies your attempt to damage his reputation by posting it in this widely-read forum. Hannes Tulving is straightforward and square in his dealings. >>
My version is directly from the conversation, and proceeding emails, which he does not deny. Im not trying to damage his reputation, and quite frankly, if his reputation is as solid as you think, then I shouldnt be able to damage it.
You clearly seem to miss the point. I never said he wasnt square in his dealings. This thread was PURELY to state how I was treated, from a customer service standpoint. You keep going to items that I clearly said were not what I was getting at. He was downright rude on the phone... which is the point I made, and you cant seem to comprehend.
peacockcoins
Tulving doesn't need to kiss a$$ to get business. Their prices and performance do the job.
Why didn't you just count your blessings and buy the PR70s?
Tulving is a major mover of bullion and moves it all over the telephone. Their website is just to list their prices and not for taking orders. They operate under the principle that people call and place and order; lots of them daily. Personalized service is not their cup of tea. You call, place your order and hang up so they can move on to the next customer. They are not in the numismatics business, they are in the bullion business. They probably buy the graded coins for less because it is not something they specialize in. Maybe they were even charging you a "crackout" fee.
I have had nothing but pleasant dealings with them but only because I didn't call to question their pricing policy.
Why didn't you just count your blessings and buy the PR70s?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
If you guys enjoy getting treated like $hit, thats fine. I prefer not to. Im willing to pay a little more for better service, as well as a few others out there. I figured I would spare them the time dealing with them.
I do NOT feel he is trying to impugn the "reputation" of Tulving.
He experienced terrible customer service and noted it. For those that don't care about potential errors and how one is handled when inquiring about them, then all is still grand and nothing has changed.
For those that may be one who wants to understand things and know that someone is at least not rude to you when you are forking over a few bucks, then this may help understanding.....
If Hannes is just so busy he can't sleep and he comes off like that, with tons of ringing phones, then it sounds like a business model prone to errors. Too busy, for too long, usually equals some mistakes. I hope not, but that is how things do go a lot.
Not sure why folks are attacking the OP.....easy to just read it, agree/disagree and move on. Or not even comment.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
They had some smaller "bags" of silver listed on their website and I bought 2. I received 4 times what I ordered, but their paperwork showed no errors. I called them about the error and they arranged the return shipping. I have no idea whether they would ever have figured out their mistake. I returned $1,500 face 90% silver to them.
A month or so later, I wanted to order 10 oz. of gold and their website stated that the minimum order was 20 oz. When I called them, I was treated pretty much the way 30AnvZ28 was treated, summarily dismissed. It was wierd because just the week before, their minimum order was only 5 oz. and their other minimums for platinum and silver were quite a bit less than the 10 oz. of gold.
I bought locally then, and since.
I knew it would happen.
Tulving is a discount bullion dealer. He is able to offer the best prices by not having a fancy website or a customer service department to sweet talk the customers. I like his business model, it saves me money on my bullion purchases. No different than shopping discount retailers to get the best prices on anything from home improvement to furniture. For those that desire more personalized service shop at Apmex and pay more.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Which Tulving are you referring to? His reputation and dealings earned from the 1980's or the one over the past several years?
roadrunner
If he has what you are looking for, his prices usually are the lowest - that's true. There is however, a point at which the savings don't justify a lack of loyalty or commitment to his customers.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>...... If I want to be cuddled and kissed, I'll shop with my wife. ........ >>
For the rest of us that's:
www.CuddlesKissesNCoins@Mrsderryb.com
personally I don't feel that her premiums are unreasonable at all as like many of you I enjoy personal service and am willing to pay for it.
<< <i>Unlike many who posted, I understand what the OP is feeling and his point.
I do NOT feel he is trying to impugn the "reputation" of Tulving.
He experienced terrible customer service and noted it. For those that don't care about potential errors and how one is handled when inquiring about them, then all is still grand and nothing has changed.
For those that may be one who wants to understand things and know that someone is at least not rude to you when you are forking over a few bucks, then this may help understanding.....
If Hannes is just so busy he can't sleep and he comes off like that, with tons of ringing phones, then it sounds like a business model prone to errors. Too busy, for too long, usually equals some mistakes. I hope not, but that is how things do go a lot.
Not sure why folks are attacking the OP.....easy to just read it, agree/disagree and move on. Or not even comment. >>
<< <i>I will not ever do business with them. I am not posting this to start an argument, nor ask for your opinion on pricing.
<< <i>
honestly then why even post?
<< <i>
<< <i>I will not ever do business with them. I am not posting this to start an argument, nor ask for your opinion on pricing.
<< <i>
honestly then why even post? >>
To let others know how I was treated.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I will not ever do business with them. I am not posting this to start an argument, nor ask for your opinion on pricing.
<< <i>
honestly then why even post? >>
To let others know how I was treated. >>
I appreciate those threads giving us feedback concerning forum members experiences with various dealers. This information helps me decide what dealers I want to buy from. I have no use for rude treatment.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Sounds like a very good use of message boards to me.
Loves me some shiny!
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
Sounds like a very good use of message boards to me.>>
Now think about that for a minute
Positive BST Transactions with a bunch of members
One man gathers what another man spills
<< <i>Wanna hear about my first and last experience with 30AnvZ28?? >>
Yes!
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Stay tuned for an edit while I get this all broken down for everyone, with both sides of the story. I have edited out contact information for both of us. I have not edited anything in anyway from these pm's. I have not posted the phone conversation from him either, which he was very vulgar and rude.
September 5th, 2010.
I noticed barefootjuan had some items for sale in the BST... which I have bought plenty of things from, especially in the last 90 days.
How much for the 10 ASE's and both gold pandas shipped to 29925? How do you accept payment? I dont have paypal, but can do anything else. You can consider the ASE's sold. Finances will determine the gold pandas. LMK William
sorry, I only take paypal... i can do $700 +.03 paypal shipped.
I dont have paypal, nor will I. Sorry. Good luck with the sale!
i guess i can take a cashiers check... of course you would have to wait till i receive. let me know. $700 for everything shipped
I can do that. Who do I need to have it made out to? Where do you want me to mail it? I will go to the bank on Tuesday (they are closed tomorrow) and then put it in the mail.
$700 Made out and sent to:
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
I will pm you and confirm payment sent!
William
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
awesome thanks!
September 7th.
I was not able to get to the bank today. The only guy who works for me split his head open around 8am and I spent the next 4-5 hours with him at hospital. 2 internal stitches, and 8 staples. I will get there first thing in the morning. I appologize, my entire day just got smashed all to pieces after that. William
no problem... hope he is doing well! September 9th did you get a chance to mail the check?
September 13th
ok, so i still haven't received confirmation that you sent me a check... i assume that you are no longer interested in the items or you could not come up with the funds. i can no longer hold the items for you. i will be listing them again for sale on the bst.
September 14th
Sorry, I purchased the check and when I reconfirmed your address I had typed it wrong. I understand, and appologize... completly my fault on the address and I had to leave town due to a family emergency. William
sorry to hear that. if you are still interested i can honor the original offer. i will just need confirmation tonight. if not i will put them back up on the bst.
am out of town and can put the check into the mail on Friday when I return home, or I can get a money order and send it from where I am. Either way is fine... if you would like the MO route, then give me your address again, and I will have it in the mail by tomorrow for you. Since the bank check is drawn on my account, I can easily get the funds back for it... so its no big deal. William
money order would be fine:
XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Copy! I will purchase that and put it in the mail. Wont go out until tomorrow, however its coming from Ohio instead of SC so you should have it quickly.
sounds good. Thanks.
September 17th
Did you mail the check on 9/15/2010 as you stated you would?
2 Western Union money orders. One for $500 and one for $200 (they would only let me go up to $500 at the gas station.). I believe it went out yesterday to be honest, I think I missed the mailman on Wed.
September 21st
Ok, Still no check.... I hope you were being honest and the check went out on 9/16 as you stated it did... even though you said you were going to mail it on 9/15... especially after you stated that the check was originally going out on 9/7 or 9/8 because your buddy split his head.... I guess if I do get the check it should have a post mark of 9/16 on it. how long do you feel I should hold these items for you?? What would you do?
I am extremly pissed off right now, AND IT IS IN NO WAY YOU, OR THIS TRANSACTION. I just want to let you know that if I come off a bit harsh its not because of you or your statements.
Lets get a couple things straight. I mailed it on 9/15. I just assumed since the flag was still up on the mailbox on the morning of the 16th, I missed the mailman on the 15th. I wanted to be honest with you. Micah (an EMPLOYEE) of mine, split his head open at 8:30 am the morning of Tuesday, Sept 7th. I spent the rest of the day taking him to the hospital, and waiting for him to be released so I could take him home. I didnt get home until almost 9pm that evening... over 12 hours after the event happened. At no point could I go to the bank and get you a cashiers check. I sent you a message immediately on the boards letting you know what happened.
On Wednesday, the 8th, I purchased a cashiers check for $707 (the $7 covered the fee to my bank.). I went to my shop, and grabbed the envelope I had printed the evening before. I went to the computer at my office, and did a quick double check of the address, because I typed up 4 or 5 envelopes within a few minutes, and wanted to make sure I didnt put your name, wrong address, or something similar. I had typed your zip code as 18704. That night, I typed up a new envelope. Around midnight that evening, I received a call from my step dad. My little brother (who I have custody of... LONG story) got arrested for OMVI, Operating without a License, Open Container, and Carrying a Concealed Weapon. He is 16, and was due in court the following (36 hours later) day for a "bond" hearing (or whatever they call it in Juvenile court).
Since I have custody of him, I knew for a fact I would have to be in court. Packed up, left in the middle of the night for Ohio. This is also why I did not respond to your pm's for a few days. I did not have interenet until I was able to get the password to my dads computer. That is also when I pmed you with the events.
I went to the gas station. They sell western union money orders. I asked to purchase one in the amount of $700. They informed me they couldnt do them over $500 for a single money order, but they would be happy to make me 2, one for $500 and one for $200. That was fine. I got home, pulled up your pm, wrote out the envelope, and put it in the mailbox.
NOW, Here is what I would do in your situation.
Obviously you wished to have paypal, which I do not use for personal reasons. You agreed to make an exception to this. You need to move these items, and get the money for whatever reasons you have (these are absolutely none of my business, nor just might be taking profits, paying bills, freeing up cash, etc, which either way, is none of my business).
With that said, If it were me, and I was dealing with a newbie, someone who couldnt provide references, etc, I would move on and sell to someone else... ESPICIALLY, since you should be able to get a few more $ for then due to the recent moves. However, if I was dealing with someone who has been on the boards, and could provide references, I would assume something has just "happened" and provide them the opportunity to square up.
I can provide you with references for over $10k worth of purchases in the last 90 days alone on these boards. I can do whatever you would like for me to do, including Express Mailing you 7 $100 bills, to make things even with you. All I ask, is that if you recieve the money orders, you mail them back to me. If you dont, I will have them canceled by Friday, as to get my money back from them.
What I would do, depends on the situation I was in. You can call me at 843-441-3271 anytime to let me know what you would like. And I can, and am willing, to go to the P.O. today (you have 40min to get back to me) or first thing in the am, and mail you cash. You let me know what you want, and I will do exactly as you wish.
I dont want any problems on these boards, and want to do business in the future with you, so please let me know what you want, as to see it we can continue those two requests.
I appologize for the situation, and take responsibility for it not mailing out on the 7th. Please understand what happened on those 3 days.
William
Thanks for the phone call! Glad we got it straightened out. I will have a priority mail package in the mail tomorrow with delv. confirmation. I am in the process of canceling the money orders. William
September 22nd
No problem... please let me know the confirmation number when sent... thanks.
September 24th
Just so we are clear.... I just called you and you said you were cleaning 'a boat' and that you were going to mail it now.... I said forget about it and 'screw you'.... forget about the deal.... Thanks for leaving me hanging for almost 20 day!!! a$$hole!
If you recieve my envelope with the money orders please mail them back. The claim process isnt as easy as I thought, but I will hopefully eventually get my money back. I know you dont see it like it went, but a lot happened in the last 20 days since my best friends accident 3 weeks ago tomorrow.
September 29th
ok, i recieved you money orders today... not sure why you sent them, i told you the deal was off... the money orders were dated 8/24/2010. I called on 8/24/2010 and you stated that you did not mail them and you were going to mail them now. I told you the deal was off... Why did you still mail them?? The postmark on the envelope was 8/27/2010 so obviously you waited a few day after that??? out of kindness i will mail them back to you.
Since I mailed them from Ohio, I sent an email to my dad on the 24th telling him to possobly expect a return letter or envelope and gave him all of your information and told him there would be 2 money orders. I just got off the phone with him and he misread the email and sent you 2 money orders instead.
At no point have I not tried to fulfill this agreement. There was an outstanding circumstance with my best friend that prevented the first agreement. I mailed the money orders when I said I did.
There is no need for you to continue to have an attitude. I have not been vulgar, or called you names, yet you have me. Lets get a few things straight very quickly, I hate "keyboard" fighters, which is what you are. You will sit here and talk $hit all day long behind the phone or a keyboard. I highly suggest you mail them back. I quite frankly dont give a damn about $700, or $1400 for that matter because thats what Im out of pocket right now, and would love to see the look on your face when I come banging at your door.
I will expect them back, by Friday, October 8th to either of the following addresses...
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
or
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i> Im sure there are plenty of forum members who will come to bat for me on this >>
i am anxiously awaiting... i would really like to know the forum members that will come to bat for you on this one.... i probably wouldn't do business with them either!
Positive BST Transactions with a bunch of members
One man gathers what another man spills
<< <i>
<< <i> Im sure there are plenty of forum members who will come to bat for me on this >>
i am anxiously awaiting... i would really like to know the forum members that will come to bat for you on this one.... i probably wouldn't do business with them either! >>
The 4 who I bought things from the exact same week and received their payments. You are the only one who "didnt"... and its not like yours was the most expensive and I "backed out". Yours was less then any of the other $7,000 I collectively bought that week. Doesnt make sense that I would sit here and lie about a $700 payment, so obviously something is wrong.
Positive BST Transactions with a bunch of members
One man gathers what another man spills