Some good reasons to resubmit
SidePocket
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I had my 6 freebie submissions just about to expire, so I thought I'd crack and resub some cards I felt were strong candidates to bump up. Here are the results, I was very pleased except for the Snider.
I posted this 52 Hodges in Mike's "Mail Call" post, but here it is again. I just couldn't figure out why the card was graded 2.5; came back as a 6.
I bought this 59 Drysdale from Ron Burgundy and we both felt it could 9 on a resub:
I thought this Musial was way too nice to stay in a 6 holder, it came back an 8:
This 62 Gibson was in a 7 holder and now resides in an 8 (sorry, no scan of the 7).
And of course the reason not to crack:
I posted this 52 Hodges in Mike's "Mail Call" post, but here it is again. I just couldn't figure out why the card was graded 2.5; came back as a 6.
I bought this 59 Drysdale from Ron Burgundy and we both felt it could 9 on a resub:
I thought this Musial was way too nice to stay in a 6 holder, it came back an 8:
This 62 Gibson was in a 7 holder and now resides in an 8 (sorry, no scan of the 7).
And of course the reason not to crack:
"Molon Labe"
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Comments
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I would never guess that Gibson could get in an 8 holder.
Drysdale +$200
Hodges +$150
Musial +$150
I think you can live with the Snider.
What about going from a 6 to an 8? Then a card that got through the first time but comes back as trimmed?
Doesnt seem very reassuring does it.
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Ralph
here's a few scenarios:
1) "You have cancer and you have six months to live."
"I don't believe you. I'd like to seek another opinion."
2) "Your engine is shot and needs to be replaced."
"I don't believe you. I'd like to seek another opinion."
3) "You two were never made for each other and don't belong together. Just sign the papers......and my check."
"We'd like to consult with another attorney."
<< <i>I am curious to know what the results would have been if reviewed and not cracked out. >>
speaking from personal experience as of today, i can tell you the results were not good on some sweet cards.
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Mickey71
I - personally - think anyone, anytime - can contradict themselves 1 grade if given enough cards day in and day out.
<< <i>Does no one find it inexplicable how a card can go from a 2.5 to a 6? And no one mentions it?
What about going from a 6 to an 8? Then a card that got through the first time but comes back as trimmed?
Doesnt seem very reassuring does it. >>
A 3.5 grade swing is unusual but not unheard of. Could be that there was something on the surface of the Hodges card that the 1st grader interpreted as a stain. Maybe the second grader didn't see it the same way. I've had cards go 7 to 9, and I've also had cards go 8 to 5/6, usually due to surface wrinkles that the first grader didn't catch. Graders make errors. 90% of the time they get it right. Of the other 10%, 5% works in your favor and you get lucky. The remaining 5% you either resubmit, review, or live with it.
And to Brick's question about what would've happened if the cards were just reviewed: Besides Snider still being holdered, Hodges probably would've bumped but not by that much. If the 2nd grader was aware of the card's original grade, he would've looked harder for what caused made the initial grader to downgrade it so much (and he may have found something). I think the Drysdale would've only bumped to 8.5 due to the upper left corner. If the Musial bumped, it would've only got a 7 due to the print. And I don't think the Gibson would've bumped at all, it looks more like a 7 to me.
Nice job and good decision to re-grade.
I think the reason the Hodges was undergraded may be this faint discoloration on the lower left of the back of the card. It's certainly there but I don't think it detracts from the card at all.
I think these next 5 cards may be my next crack and resub. There's not a lot to be gained with these, but it just feels like these cards are in the wrong holders.
"Molon Labe"
<< <i>I am curious to know what the results would have been if reviewed and not cracked out. >>
I guarantee the Snider wouldnt have come back EOT
<< <i>he is the owner of what are presumed to be original opinions.....he wasn't satisfied with those opinions, so he sought different opinions, and for the most part, those opinions worked out to his benefit.
here's a few scenarios:
1) "You have cancer and you have six months to live."
"I don't believe you. I'd like to seek another opinion."
2) "Your engine is shot and needs to be replaced."
"I don't believe you. I'd like to seek another opinion."
3) "You two were never made for each other and don't belong together. Just sign the papers......and my check."
"We'd like to consult with another attorney." >>
Your analogy works. With the exception that you are asking the same doctor to give you a second opinion. The lawyer doesnt seem to be germane to the argument.
Now, it is very understandable how a card can go up or down a point. Im sure we all could grade 100 cards, put them away, come back in 2 weeks and some would be different. But from a 2.5 to a 6? Shouldnt happen. If it happens often, one has to question the grading ability of those who are assigning grades.
<< <i>But from a 2.5 to a 6? Shouldnt happen. If it happens often, one has to question the grading ability of those who are assigning grades. >>
Yea...that 3.5 bump has me beat. My personal best is only 3. I had an undergraded 1961 Fleer Cousy card go from a PSA 5 to a PSA 8. I have a 1958 Mickey Mantle All Star go from a PSA 2 to an SGC 5. Second opinions are a MUST!
<< <i>
<< <i>But from a 2.5 to a 6? Shouldnt happen. If it happens often, one has to question the grading ability of those who are assigning grades. >>
Yea...that 3.5 bump has me beat. My personal best is only 3. I had an undergraded 1961 Fleer Cousy card go from a PSA 5 to a PSA 8. I have a 1958 Mickey Mantle All Star go from a PSA 2 to an SGC 5. Second opinions are a MUST! >>
I can completely understand a 1 grade discrepancy.
However, one has to question how a card, graded by professionals, can have a 3 or more grade swing.
<< <i>Q: How does the grading process work and how many graders see my card? A: When card grading submissions are received by PSA we organize them by their service level and then they are placed in a queue to be graded. A minimum of 2 graders will grade each card. Some cards will require more graders for a variety of reasons. Cards are graded on a 10 point scale which is a part of our Grading Standard. More information on the grading process can also be found on the PSA Video Tour. Back to list >>
So, is there a finalizer? A head grader that gives the final grade? At CGC (comics) there are three graders, two pre-graders and the head-grader/finalizer. The finalizer assigns a grade. Once that is done then he looks at the other grades and if there is a large discrepancy then the graders can talk to see if something was missed.
How are grades determined if two people look at the card and give different grades?
And again, how can two professionals get something that wrong as is the case for the Hodges?
WTG!
Bosox1976
<< <i>
Your analogy works. With the exception that you are asking the same doctor to give you a second opinion. >>
That would only be the case if the original grader happens to get the card to review again. Then they would have to remember grading it the first time. With a doctor, I'm sure they would remember the patient and probably the diagnosis. For card graders, I highly doubt they would remember grading a 2.5 '52 Gil Hodges many months ago.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Your analogy works. With the exception that you are asking the same doctor to give you a second opinion. >>
That would only be the case if the original grader happens to get the card to review again. Then they would have to remember grading it the first time. With a doctor, I'm sure they would remember the patient and probably the diagnosis. For card graders, I highly doubt they would remember grading a 2.5 '52 Gil Hodges many months ago. >>
Nope, sorry, doesnt jive. Seeing as how PSA graded the card twice their graders should be using the same grading standards which, according to them are:
<< <i>When you buy a PSA-graded collectible or submit an item to PSA for grading, you get the most accurately graded collectible in the hobb >>
and
<< <i>PSA's grading standard is recognized industry-wide as the best possible form of consumer protection. So when you see a collectible for sale, displaying the PSA logo, you'll know you can buy with the confidence that it has been properly graded >>
PSA's grading standards link is non-functional right now.
So again, you are asking the same professionals to grade a card, again, and they, at least 2 of them, come up with a diagnosis that is radically different than the first time. Remember, they are using the same standards, and are the self proclaimed industry standard.
But several things can account for a 3.5 difference. Interpretation of what constitutes a stain as shown on the back of that card (that would be my guess), maybe an error in the keystroke entry by the first grader, who knows? Slight surface wrinkles that are barely visible can also account for a 2-3 grade difference.
In my opinion, PSA has shown remarkable consistency in their grading over the years. If you took 100 cards graded PSA 8 from ten years ago, they would look very much like 100 cards that were graded PSA 8 yesterday. So an uncommon, 1-in-1000 mistake like the Hodges card doesn't indict their whole system.
I'll also bet that such errors happen more frequently with your comic book graders than you are willing to admit.
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<< <i>Now you're belaboring the point. We all know a 3.5 grade bump is unusual.
But several things can account for a 3.5 difference. Interpretation of what constitutes a stain as shown on the back of that card (that would be my guess), maybe an error in the keystroke entry by the first grader, who knows? Slight surface wrinkles that are barely visible can also account for a 2-3 grade difference.
In my opinion, PSA has shown remarkable consistency in their grading over the years. If you took 100 cards graded PSA 8 from ten years ago, they would look very much like 100 cards that were graded PSA 8 yesterday. So an uncommon, 1-in-1000 mistake like the Hodges card doesn't indict their whole system.
I'll also bet that such errors happen more frequently with your comic book graders than you are willing to admit. >>
Now we are getting somewhere with some information as to why it might be happening. Sorry, I wasnt trying to argue semantics or split hairs, it just is kinda shocking that happens.
In comics it does happen, but usually something has occured to the comic in the meantime that causes the jump. Case in point was a Boy Comics that went from a 4.5 to a 9.4, which on the comic scale is going from a VG+ to a NM, which is a 9 point jump.
However, the book had been pressed, and the inner wrap on the book, which had been off the staple, had been fixed whereby the inner wrap had the top staple (there was no paper tear, probably never been attached to the staple) reattached to the paper.
Your point is true though, it does happen in comics, but usually its just a point either way on a straight resub. Now if the book has been pressed (dont think there is a card equivilant) then you can see large grade swings.
<< <i>3.5 % difference in a grade is a Joke let alone 2 grades. The Snider results are disgusting. >>
I think you need to edit that again