PR VDB: Steve, look at this article from the Numismatist from Feb. 1910

DMWJR

BigRick

Woulda loved to have seen SFO proofs.

BWRC

Nice read from 100 years ago,

Thanks for posting it!

DMWJR

You can read the entire February 1910 issue of The Numismatist free HERE.

You can find many old issues and interesting periodicals on Google Books for free. I especially enjoyed the advertisements in the back.

renomedphys

I love the final line: "No 1909 US cents are rare". Reading above, it would seem the caveat ragarding the VDB subtype: "except those struck in "proof" which are scarcely distinguishable from selected uncirculated specimens", would seem to contradict the final statement in the article. Well, I guess we all know that they aren't excessively "rare" even with only 150 or so specimens known. The real issue for this coin, the VDB proof, is that even with a fair number of them floating around out there, the demand will likely far exceed the supply in the forseeable future. I mean, if it were just about rarity, proof matron head cents would be easy six-figure coins, but the lack of demand keeps them down (to a measely five figures!). The 1909 VDB cent in itself, proof or not, SF or Philly, will always hold a special place with small cent collectors, as it is the first type of the first year of the coin that got them started collecting as a kid. It's about nostalgia, and being the first. When you combine that with the prestige and scarcity of the proof issue, you get an inflated value over what some may consider the relative non-rarity.

To be honest, it's hard to predict the long-term appeal of this coin in the face of changing designs, waning youth interest in numismatics, or the possible abolition of the cent. I mean, I've often thought that once the cent goes, so will collector interest, but there's plenty of evidence that would sem to contradict that as well. Collectors didn't just stop collecting half cents, two cent pieces, or any of the other obsolete denominations just because they stopped making them. And their values have always steadily risen. Personally, I think that there is enough going for this design, the Lincoln cent, with its history, its place in our nation's and the world's development, that there will always be an attraction that draws people to collect them, and draws collectors to cherish them.

illini420

Very cool

WaterSport

I think the important part of that article is the quotation that 500 or so were minted.

WS

Steve

Sorry, I was away from the computer today. Thanks Doug for posting the information. I agree with Bob that the most interesting point in the article written in February, 1910 was the comment that about 500 1909VDB MPL's were struck. That information must have come from somewhere. My guess is that it came from some Mint official or some document that was subsequently destroyed. The Robert Clark documents stating 1,503 were struck on July 30th, 1909 and of those 1,194 were delivered to the coiner on August 2nd may be factual. BUT, what the numismatic hobby REALLY wants to know is how many went into the hands of collectors. We will never know that but I think we have pretty wide spread agreement that the number is around 500. Red Book NOW says 400 to 600 and I say lets keep using that historical number of 420. Whatever, it is very interesting and thanks again Doug for posting it. Steve

DMWJR

I thought you might enjoy that!

scottgardener

"No 1909 U.S. cents are rare." Easy to say in 1910. Consider how many of us balk at modern issues, when there are some that could potentially be future great rarities, such as platinum bullion or the First Spouse series, both of which have mintage figures far lower than the 1909-S-VDB cent.

As for some 500 or so VDB proofs not being rare, I can see how this could be the case in 1910. Back then, there were not as many coin collectors, or for that matter, not as many people in general. The world population was about 1.7 billion, just a little over 1/4 of where we are today. Of those people, less of them percentage-wise were at a point at which coin collecting was a feasible hobby. A penny then was actual money. Most people in the U.S. did not have electric power and many did not have plumbing. Coin collecting outside of the wealthy was more of a niche market, and some of the price differences between common dates and rarities were ridiculously low compared to today, because of the lack of demand. 500 proofs would seem like a lot if there were only 400 people willing to pay more than ten to twenty cents for one.

grip

<< <i>"No 1909 U.S. cents are rare." Easy to say in 1910. Consider how many of us balk at modern issues, when there are some that could potentially be future great rarities, such as platinum bullion or the First Spouse series, both of which have mintage figures far lower than the 1909-S-VDB cent.

As for some 500 or so VDB proofs not being rare, I can see how this could be the case in 1910. Back then, there were not as many coin collectors, or for that matter, not as many people in general. The world population was about 1.7 billion, just a little over 1/4 of where we are today. Of those people, less of them percentage-wise were at a point at which coin collecting was a feasible hobby. A penny then was actual money. Most people in the U.S. did not have electric power and many did not have plumbing. Coin collecting outside of the wealthy was more of a niche market, and some of the price differences between common dates and rarities were ridiculously low compared to today, because of the lack of demand. 500 proofs would seem like a lot if there were only 400 people willing to pay more than ten to twenty cents for one. >>



Well said.

DMWJR

I think you might be underestimating the demand for the release of the most popular coin in history. There has never been more demand upon the release of a new issue than when the Lincoln cent was released. The Mint was inundated with people trying to get examples of the newly issued coin. Kids were standing in line all night for them and then selling business strike Lincolns, two or three for a nickel. I would recommend Roger (RWB) Burdette's Renaissance American Coinage 1909-1915 for more information about the times and demand for the Lincoln Cent.

You may also be overestimating the cost of the proofs at the time of issue. The mint sold the minor proof coin set (cent and nickel) for eight cents - two cents for the cent and six cents for the nickel.

I think these also lends credibility to the notion that only 500 (or 420) were actually released. There were many letters written to the Mint by collectors wanting to receive Proof examples of this coin after the fact. The Mint responded that they had IHC and non-VDB proof cents on hand, but no VDB cents. The VDB proofs have been highly sought after since they day they were released. Some say that their appearance, being so similar to mint state coins, caused them to be accidentally lost to circulation over the years. However, wouldn't that be true of the non-VDB Lincolns too? Look at the survival rate just with PCGS graded coins. If 2,000+ VDB proofs were issued, wouldn't you expect the survival rate to be even higher than that of the 1909 plain?

1909 IHC - Mintage 2,175, PCGS total graded 319
1909 Lincoln - Mintage 2,198, PCGS total graded 433
1909 VDB - Mintage ___, PCGS total graded 106

I'm certainly not trying to rehash a debate that has been ongoing here for years, but just thought it good to point this out. Even in 1910, the VDB proofs were, and always will be, rare.

Steve

<< <i>I think you might be underestimating the demand for the release of the most popular coin in history. There has never been more demand upon the release of a new issue than when the Lincoln cent was released.

1909 IHC - Mintage 2,175, PCGS total graded 319
1909 Lincoln - Mintage 2,198, PCGS total graded 433
1909 VDB - Mintage ___, PCGS total graded 106

I'm certainly not trying to rehash a debate that has been ongoing here for years, but just thought it good to point this out. Even in 1910, the VDB proofs were, and always will be, rare. >>



Doug and others:

It's always fun to rehash some of the interesting discussions we have had here concerning the 1909VDB MPL. Here are two for your review. The first covers the mintage issues but also has some cool pictures of the 3 key diagnostics (from 5 years ago) here

The second is about MPL mintage and how the Red Book has reported the counts over the years (from 2 1/2 years ago) here

Enjoy reading down memory lane.

Steve

keyman64

I like that they refer to an 'S' Mint coin as a VARIETY. That is one of the things that stood out to me. Good read!