Is it possible to authenticate a heavily polished VG Bust Dollar?
MrEureka
Posts: 24,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
Is it possible to authenticate a heavily polished VG Bust Dollar? At that level, is there enough of the original coin left to be sure it's not a polished Chinese counterfeit? Could it be that as the counterfeiters improve, it will get to the point where only high grade coins can be authenticated?
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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I wonder if the grading/authentication services have been doing x-ray diffraction tests on unquestionably genuine early coins just to build up a data base of the trace elements found in said coins?
TD
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
And this was an XF/AU details coin. Subsequently authenticated and details graded by NGC.
<< <i>6858 1795 $1 Centered Dr Bust US 86 - No Decision / Refund
And this was an XF/AU details coin. Subsequently authenticated and details graded by NGC. >>
How heavily polished was this coin? Got any pics?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>6858 1795 $1 Centered Dr Bust US 86 - No Decision / Refund
And this was an XF/AU details coin. Subsequently authenticated and details graded by NGC. >>
How heavily polished was this coin? Got any pics? >>
No pictures
It wasn't polished. Nor was it tooled. Just heavily cleaned. I actually called up for an explanation on that one and was told (after some waiting for a call back) "The coin was too worn to make a determination." Knowing the details on the coin, I could only respond with an "Uh, ok thank you." - I was a little blown away to say the least.
That said I bought a VERY original F/VF 1795 Flowing Hair the other day that is going to NGC. Assuming it grades as I expect - I may try to cross it after NGC does their thing.
I can see where a heavily polished bust dollar would garner a stare by the graders followed by a no-grade/can't authenticate.
peacockcoins
<< <i>That said I bought a VERY original F/VF 1795 Flowing Hair the other day that is going to NGC. Assuming it grades as I expect - I may try to cross it after NGC does their thing. >>
Why not just send it to PCGS in the first place and save yourself some money and effort.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>That said I bought a VERY original F/VF 1795 Flowing Hair the other day that is going to NGC. Assuming it grades as I expect - I may try to cross it after NGC does their thing. >>
Why not just send it to PCGS in the first place and save yourself some money and effort. >>
Neither the time nor the place for that discussion. The point of my post was simply to show that even a non-polished XF/AU details early dollar can get "bagged" without authentication.
<< <i>There might be enough left of the edge to make a determination.
I wonder if the grading/authentication services have been doing x-ray diffraction tests on unquestionably genuine early coins just to build up a data base of the trace elements found in said coins?
TD >>
Clever idea, Tom.
Then it would force the counterfeiters to melt period- and regionally-correct coins to make their planchets.
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Then it would force the counterfeiters to melt period- and regionally-correct coins to make their planchets.
Not really. The counterfeiters can also non-destructively test real coins, and then mix proper alloys. Of course it will be a while before they find that necessary. My best guess is 25 years.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>
<< <i>There might be enough left of the edge to make a determination.
I wonder if the grading/authentication services have been doing x-ray diffraction tests on unquestionably genuine early coins just to build up a data base of the trace elements found in said coins?
TD >>
Clever idea, Tom.
Then it would force the counterfeiters to melt period- and regionally-correct coins to make their planchets.
Lane >>
I read somewhere that counterfeiters of ancient coins would melt low value damaged junk silverware from the same time period and local to create their high quality fake ancient coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>There might be enough left of the edge to make a determination.
I wonder if the grading/authentication services have been doing x-ray diffraction tests on unquestionably genuine early coins just to build up a data base of the trace elements found in said coins?
TD >>
Clever idea, Tom.
Then it would force the counterfeiters to melt period- and regionally-correct coins to make their planchets.
Lane >>
I read somewhere that counterfeiters of ancient coins would melt low value damaged junk silverware from the same time period and local to create their high quality fake ancient coins. >>
That technique is only worthwhile if you are making just one or two or three high-quality, high-value fakes.
The fakers from China are mass producing stuff. One would assume that they simply mix straight elements, plus whatever cadmium or other poisons were left over in the melting pot from the last batch of toys they made for the export market.
TD
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>There might be enough left of the edge to make a determination.
I wonder if the grading/authentication services have been doing x-ray diffraction tests on unquestionably genuine early coins just to build up a data base of the trace elements found in said coins?
TD >>
Clever idea, Tom.
Then it would force the counterfeiters to melt period- and regionally-correct coins to make their planchets.
Lane >>
I read somewhere that counterfeiters of ancient coins would melt low value damaged junk silverware from the same time period and local to create their high quality fake ancient coins. >>
That technique is only worthwhile if you are making just one or two or three high-quality, high-value fakes.
The fakers from China are mass producing stuff. One would assume that they simply mix straight elements, plus whatever cadmium or other poisons were left over in the melting pot from the last batch of toys they made for the export market.
TD >>
Obviously most of the junk coming out of China these days aren't made with the same care that the really rare and expensive counterfeit collector coins are made. Most aren't even made with silver of the proper fineness.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire