Need help on Mantle RC...does this look real/what to look for??

jeff8877

Hi everyone,

A friend of mine is wanting to buy this card but I told him I was a little concerned as I know there are fakes out there of some of the key cards. Can anyone help put my mind at ease or what to look for if it is a fake. I know that the card looks more like a 5 than a 6 also.

Thanks to all!

Jeff

digicat

The flip looks ok, one of the older ones.

I'd suggest that your friend gets a scan with a black background to see the condition the case is in. White backgrounds hide tampering.

SDSportsFan

Well, I can tell you from looking at that card, to me anyway, it doesn't look anywhere close to being a 6!

The top edge and corners make it look like a 4 at best.

Personally, I'd pass on it.

Steve

digicat

The rough-cut won't murder the grade. Some folks actually consider that "flaw" a plus.

The corners are consistant with what one would expect from a 6.

WinPitcher

I'm with Steve, it may be graded a 6, but it is not a 6 by my standards.

A 6 with that centering should have better corners.

I'd be hard pressed calling that card a 5.

Steve

WinPitcher

I do not believe that is a rough cut, IMO it is wear.


Steve

digicat

<< <i>I do not believe that is a rough cut, IMO it is wear. >>



Possibly. Kinda hard to tell for sure from the scan. I had a PSA 7 1951 Vern Law a while back that had a nice rough edge.

Still, for a card like this, a lot of money will be involved, and as a buyer, I'd want a much better scan.

WinPitcher

lol...............you and me both, besides the scan, for the money I'd want a better card too.


Steve

yankeeno7

one thing I noticed....the slab. Where is the "PSA" in the plastic mold? Normally its in the bottom right. I was looking at a couple of my older flips, and they all have it. Was there a time that it was NOT embedded in the mold?

I have heard of molds coming out of china and they do not have this insignia on the plastic. Flips seem like they could be easy enough to fake, or use one from a cracked card.

bobsbbcards

Here's a PSA 6 with nice corners.

MBMiller25

Now thats a 6

Here's a 5 for comparison

Stone193

<< <i>Here's a PSA 6 with nice corners.

>>

Nicest looking 6 on the planet Bob!

twiley

The flip looks fake to me.

the "PSA" symbol appears to be missing on it. I would stay away from it...

storm888

The OP's card/slab looks like one from Craig's List. (The Hernandez Gang.)

lsutigers1973

<< <i>Here's a PSA 6 with nice corners.

>>



That one has to be a fake. Looks way too nice for a 6. Looks like it's a printline away from a 9.

Blacklabelsociety

<< <i>Hi everyone,

A friend of mine is wanting to buy this card but I told him I was a little concerned as I know there are fakes out there of some of the key cards. Can anyone help put my mind at ease or what to look for if it is a fake. I know that the card looks more like a 5 than a 6 also.

Thanks to all!

Jeff



>>



The card and flip both look good, but a weak 6. Looks like a 5.

dzolot

Here's some 1951 Bowman 6's 7's and 8's to compare. Make sure to watch in HD. Lemme know what you think of the Mantle...

WinPitcher

Bobs Mantle is what I would call a true EX/MNT card. Back in the day a card that

at first glance appeared to be mint but on further examination had lightly touched

corners (which I presume his does) was an EX/MNT card. Cards that were OC could never

be EX/MNT, especially if they had rounded corners (like the one this thread is about)

That card would be called VG.

This is why some 6's upon further review or resubmission attain higher grades.

This all started to change around 1986 when anyone who had been buying cards

opened up a storefront and instantly became a dealer.

Today a 6 is a mid grade card with examples ranging from the obscene looking

to what Bob has shown. It was not always like that.

This 90/10 centering on the back and still being a mint card is ridiculous IMO.

But this is the standard we have forced on us.


Steve

twiley

<< <i>

<< <i>Hi everyone,

A friend of mine is wanting to buy this card but I told him I was a little concerned as I know there are fakes out there of some of the key cards. Can anyone help put my mind at ease or what to look for if it is a fake. I know that the card looks more like a 5 than a 6 also.

Thanks to all!

Jeff



>>



The card and flip both look good, but a weak 6. Looks like a 5. >>



As I said before

The Flip is FAKE the PSA symbol appears to be missing on the slab. I would stay far away from this card.

MeteoriteGuy

It appears you are trying to bargin shop these key cards.

If it is graded by PSA, a vintage key card, and priced half price...it is likely fake.

twiley

Here is why I am saying the slab is FAKE

Note the PSA symbol that I keep saying is missing...

Mantle




Now here is a flip from the same era only a different card...

storm888

Some of the cards in the original CL scam.

They were in pristine slabs and had counterfeit flips.
(The cert numbers all matched on the PSA site.)


1933 Goudey Ruth #53 PSA 5

T206 Cobb Re portrait PSA 6

t206 Cobb Bat on PSA 6

1933 Goudey Lou Gehrig #92 PSA6

1934 Goudey Gehrig PSA5

1952 Bowman Mantle PSA 6

1954 Aaron PSA 7

1954 Aaron PSA 6

1955 Clemente PSA6

1956 Mantle PSA 7

1951 Bowman Mantle PSA 4


A whole run of various Sports Kings.

KbKards

Twiley.
The PSA logo is not seen because the scan is too low quality. Even in the much higher quality Jeter scan showing the logo it's barely visible so something scanned as badly as the Mantle will lose all detail as is obvious when looking at other areas of the holder. There's also nothing that stands out as being wrong with the label. The card itself based on what can be seen and understood from the scan is not out of line of what will be seen in a badly scanned 6 holder. Of course a buyer should be cautious when buying a card like this and ask for better scans and more info to help determine if the offer is legit or not. You state so firmly the card/slab is fake but the only certain thing is you can't be sure of anything from the scan provided.

twiley

@KB FWIW I zoomed in on the section of the slab on both front and back pics. The PSA symbol is missing. I stand by my opinion on the slab being a fake.

yankeeno7

Just as I said way back, I think the slab is fake and maybe or maybe not the flip is real. Also, there definitely is NOT a PSA symbol on the slab. Thats easily a good enough scan to tell.

What is the price difference of a psa 4 (or a 6 oc) compared to a straight 6? Pretty significant I would think. It's certainly not unreasonable to think that there are people making a boatload of money doing this.

I will say, the card does look real.

digicat

<< <i>I zoomed in on the section of the slab on both front and back pics. The PSA symbol is missing. I stand by my opinion on the slab being a fake. >>



The scan sux too bad for me to make that call for certain. I can sort of see someting in the corners. The flip doesn't jump out to me as being one of the Craigslist fakes.

As for it being a "fake case", I haven't seen a fake case where the scammer was able to reproduce the hologram and the white print on the top of the back of the slab.

twiley

I have really good photo editing software. I did a zoom etc. I can't see it at all. It isn't there. I would also be willing to bet the slab has frost on it. I also took a crappy scan of the Jeter card to see if on a white background if the PSA symbol shows. In comparison. The Jeter it still shows even with a white background. It is not super clear as with a black background but it is still there and visible.

Personally I would stay far away. Here are the reasons.

1) the card looks more like a PSA 3-4 not a PSA 6
2) the scan does not show the PSA symbol
3) I have suspicion the real PSA 6 was cracked out and regraded. The flip was placed in a "new" or "fake" slab and the card was replaced with a lower end card.

Stone193

I just scanned a similar 'era' holder - keep in mind in these the hologram and the Logo are "part" of the holder - the flip is just the blue background.

If one compares the style of the fonts, the clarity, color, the hologram etc. - my take? This is a fake copy - albeit - a good copy.

Also, I've never seen a holder that wasn't "frosted" with stippling outside of the area for the card.

On the PSA embossed on the bottom of the holder - it sure looks like it's missing - it's not always on the back from my experience.

I thought I heard where China was knocking off the PSA holder - whoever made this holder did a pretty good job - but it's not the real deal IMO.

Could I be wrong? Sure.

Last - this card is NO WAY near a 6! Not even a slider IMO - looks like a 3 - tops 4.

PS: I agree with Mr Twiley.

diamondman

<< <i>I have really good photo editing software. I did a zoom etc. I can't see it at all. It isn't there. I would also be willing to bet the slab has frost on it. I also took a crappy scan of the Jeter card to see if on a white background if the PSA symbol shows. In comparison. The Jeter it still shows even with a white background. It is not super clear as with a black background but it is still there and visible.

Personally I would stay far away. Here are the reasons.

1) the card looks more like a PSA 3-4 not a PSA 6
2) the scan does not show the PSA symbol
3) I have suspicion the real PSA 6 was cracked out and regraded. The flip was placed in a "new" or "fake" slab and the card was replaced with a lower end card. >>




if it is a real card and a real slab and "if" is the Big key word, I would not pay more than PSA 4 money for that card and would want it in hand before paying for it.

I would look for a better card in PSA 6 condition with better scans of the whole slab. JMHO

digicat

A better scan will put this whole argument to bed and unify the boards, one way or the other.

I don't know about all this 3 and 4 talk. Looks like a good "low end" 6 to me. If the price was right (and the scan was good), I might even buy it.

jeff8877

Thank You to everyone who contributed to this thread. It is really nice to get real input from everyone. My friend passed on the card.

Jeff

digicat

I got a better scan from the seller.

Yup, the PSA logo is there.

The corners actually look a little nicer with the dark background. The top edge is rough-cut.

However, the registration problem is a more evident.

As I said before, low end 6, but a 6 none the less.

diamondman

ok with the better scan it looks real. also it might pass as a low grade 6 , I would give it a 5 and maybe a 5.5 if I was feeling generous, I know with my luck if I had the card and had subbed it it would have came back a 4 or 4.5. JMHO

can somebody do that magic with the pixels and tell the exact centering T/B and L/R ?

digicat

T/B = 68/32
L/R = 34/66

diamondman

<< <i>T/B = 68/32
L/R = 34/66 >>



WOW, I was guessing 80/20 T/B and 75/25 L/R guess that is why I am not a grader.
Thanks for the measurements

SDSportsFan

That just shows how much a good scan can mean to the seller. That new scan is a thousand times better than the original!

That said, I still like my centered PSA 5 a whole lot better!

Steve

twiley

Much better scan. You are right the psa symbol is there. Amazing how a better black background scan can clear up a lot! Obviously I was wrong in saying it is a fake with this new scan given.

Far as the card goes. I still say its a PSA 4 not a 6. JMHO

WinPitcher

Better scan tells much more.

Now it does not look too out of place in that holder.

The top appears to be a rough cut.


Why in the world would that guy use such a crappy scan?


Steve

Stone193

That scan is much better and looks way different from the original posted.

I would still like to find a better centered 6 if I were in the market for this card.