So I got a call from a very large *UNRESPECTABLE* dealer...(updated---now a non respected dealer...)
joebb21
Posts: 4,776 ✭✭✭✭✭
I had been in touch with a very large known dealer (dealer #1) who knew that I was interested in certain high end types of coins.
Today the vice president of the company (who I had been in touch with recently trying to work on some purchases) calls me up and tells me of 5 absolutely amazing coins that his company just purchased and they are holding them on the side for me to give me first shot before the coins are put up on their website.
Its always nice when one can get first shot at a favorite dealers NEWPS before anything officially goes on the website, but as I was away from my home, I asked that all the information be emailed to me and in a couple of hours when I would get home I would take a look at the coins.
When I got home, I got to take a look at the 5 coins. The first was a particular coin that I was very well familiar. It was super nice coin for the grade (cac'ed and plus'ed as well) but I remember the last dealer that had it was asking quite a bit of money for it. Sure enough, when I looked at the new price attached to it, it reflected a small % over what the last dealer asked for it.
All seemed fine for the moment until I saw the pictures of the coin and realized that the pictures were the same as the dealer who had the coin previously. The "previous dealer" has a very specific photo shoot that we all know here right away where the coin came from.
Intrigued, I took a little stroll over to the other well large dealers website (dealer #2)- and low and behold the coin was still listed under his site with the SAME DESCRIPTION as the dealer#2 offered only with a LOWER PRICE!
A quick look at dealer #1's 5 coin list showed all 5 to be on dealer #2's website with the same description and a cheaper price.
Maybe Im blowing this way out of proportion, but I feel its very wrong for a dealer to call me up telling me of his companies "brand new purchases" and "giving me first shot" when all it appears they did was offer me from another dealers website at a higher price.
Any ideas of how I should respond to his "offers"
Today the vice president of the company (who I had been in touch with recently trying to work on some purchases) calls me up and tells me of 5 absolutely amazing coins that his company just purchased and they are holding them on the side for me to give me first shot before the coins are put up on their website.
Its always nice when one can get first shot at a favorite dealers NEWPS before anything officially goes on the website, but as I was away from my home, I asked that all the information be emailed to me and in a couple of hours when I would get home I would take a look at the coins.
When I got home, I got to take a look at the 5 coins. The first was a particular coin that I was very well familiar. It was super nice coin for the grade (cac'ed and plus'ed as well) but I remember the last dealer that had it was asking quite a bit of money for it. Sure enough, when I looked at the new price attached to it, it reflected a small % over what the last dealer asked for it.
All seemed fine for the moment until I saw the pictures of the coin and realized that the pictures were the same as the dealer who had the coin previously. The "previous dealer" has a very specific photo shoot that we all know here right away where the coin came from.
Intrigued, I took a little stroll over to the other well large dealers website (dealer #2)- and low and behold the coin was still listed under his site with the SAME DESCRIPTION as the dealer#2 offered only with a LOWER PRICE!
A quick look at dealer #1's 5 coin list showed all 5 to be on dealer #2's website with the same description and a cheaper price.
Maybe Im blowing this way out of proportion, but I feel its very wrong for a dealer to call me up telling me of his companies "brand new purchases" and "giving me first shot" when all it appears they did was offer me from another dealers website at a higher price.
Any ideas of how I should respond to his "offers"
may the fonz be with you...always...
0
Comments
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>It's possible this dealer purchased the coins and the other dealer hasn't yet removed them from his site. Possible.
Russ, NCNE >>
Yes, that's a possibility but if this isn't the case, then I would speak directly to this dealer and tell him not to contact me anymore!!
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>Well there is nothing wrong with trying to make a little profit. However, it seems that the dealer is trying to make a little profit on the wrong guy. Knowledge is power and the power shifted in your favor when you were able to discover the origins of the coins. I would respond by telling the dealer that you found the EXACT same coins for less money somewhere else and maybe even provide him with the link. However, at the end of the day this dealer is just trying to put food on the table. Dealers make money all the time by buying coins from one another and adding a little cream to the top when they sell the to a collector. Good Job though on doing your homework!! >>
If the dealer didn't really buy the coins and lied about it, none of the above excuses that.
It's either a case of dishonesty or sloppy operations.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>It may be time to revisit your categorization of "well-respected" dealers. >>
Who else here is in a frothy frenzy, knowing that RYK is back?
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Unfortunately there are 2-3 self-proclaimed major coin dealers who do this and sell other dealer's inventory, and most of these companies aren't beyond stretching the truth...
purchase coins you already own.
bob
<< <i>I would just be honest. Tell him that you have already seen the coins listed with X dealer, and that you appreciate the offers. If you are still interested in the coins, I would buy them from dealer X. >>
Hey Joe,
I concur with the above advice.
<< <i>
<< <i>I would just be honest. Tell him that you have already seen the coins listed with X dealer, and that you appreciate the offers. If you are still interested in the coins, I would buy them from dealer X. >>
Hey Joe,
I concur with the above advice. >>
I'm choking on the "that you appreciate the offers" part of the above. In other words, you appreciate being lied to (assuming he does not own/possess the coins).
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
<< <i>
<< <i>I would just be honest. Tell him that you have already seen the coins listed with X dealer, and that you appreciate the offers. If you are still interested in the coins, I would buy them from dealer X. >>
Hey Joe,
I concur with the above advice. >>
The problem I can see with this advice is that if the original assumption (Dealer #1 doesn't own the coins, but is trying to sell Dealer #2's coins) is wrong and Dealer #1 actually does own the coins, the OP will likely not be getting many "First Shot" phone calls in the future- at least, not from Dealer #1.
I'd think the best course of action would be to find out what's really going on before making (or hinting at) any accusations.
<< I would just be honest. Tell him that you have already seen the coins listed with X dealer, and that you appreciate the offers. If you are still interested in the coins, I would buy them from dealer X. >>
That is an assumption. The other dealer may have just not removed the listing from his website. Coinguy1 already pointed this out.
How about...
"No, thank you. I'll pass." Unless you are interested in the coins. Then just mention what you saw on the other dealer's website. Let them explain.
Don't forget your avatar. Me? I'm cooler than 5 Fonzies.
<< <i>
<< <i>It may be time to revisit your categorization of "well-respected" dealers. >>
Who else here is in a frothy frenzy, knowing that RYK is back?
I am!!! I saw the post and wondered how long it had been since I had saw his initials. Thought maybe he had been back for a while but I just missed his return. Someday I hope to run into him, maybe at a Steeler game this year. I heard he sets up a table in the great hall at half time.
As far as a "respected dealer", I would agree he should be moved down a few notches, perhaps to "shady dealer."
None of the 3 actually had the coins just a description.
The coins would be next day air shipped to any of the 3 dealer by the consignee for imaging.
I went for the best deal and the ability to use my AMEX for points as it was a 5 figure deal which netted me a sweet Weber Grill!
Still, its ok if the dealer does not own the coin-but I feel at the very least they should tell you.
I can assume the dealer who offered you the coins was from the east coast?
<< <i>Does anyone else consider this to be rather frustrating and unethical (if indeed Dealer 2 still owned them)? >>
Frustrating yes, unethical...no, I guess not. Working in this fashon is similar to what realtors do. They sell something that they don't own to someone who buys it for someone else. Their fees get taken out of the price of the item (price goes up) and the dealers are all happy. Fine art can work this way too.
Perhaps it isn't right, but that's how it's done.
<< <i>Frustrating yes, unethical...no, I guess not. Working in this fashon is similar to what realtors do. >>
I don't think realtors claim to own the houses they sell, though, do they?
If, in fact, the dealer in the OP did this (claimed to have just purchased coins which he did not, in fact, own), I'd say it's certainly dishonest. On the other hand, I think it's still too early to be amassing the tar and feathers, as nobody here really knows the entitre story to this point.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>It may be time to revisit your categorization of "well-respected" dealers. >>
Summer's over, eh?
my response to the "vice president" stated- "Thank you for thinking of me but I was already offered all 5 coins previously."
Let it be known that RYK disappeared for a couple of months and in one of his first posts, spoke a whole load of wisdom.
The words "well respected" and "known" are definitely not synonymous, and dealer #1 has just fallen out of dealers I will be checking back with.
Edited for clarity
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
So if I wanted to start as a dealer and because I have no $ for any inventory, I can just offer other dealers coins on a website? Hmmm...sort of like a coin broker...
Just kidding...
K
<< <i>Yeah I agree that you did a good job of handling it...
So if I wanted to start as a dealer and because I have no $ for any inventory, I can just offer other dealers coins on a website? Hmmm...sort of like a coin broker...
Just kidding...
K >>
They could all be "Pre-Sale"
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>What good would come from naming names??? >>
a 200+ post thread, perhaps...
with the weekend coming on, it might liven things up around here a bit...
Although sad, this is a good and needed thread IMO.....
Summer's over, eh? .....your a bad man.......
First of all, I am not condoning the dealers actions because it seems like deceit was involved... but
Let me see if I get this right...
Dealer #1 knows you like certain types of coins...
They call you to tell you they have found your coins.... "hey, we found your coins because we are thinking of you..."
Why does it matter that the coins are on another dealers site?
Instead of being angry that the coins are being offered to you at a higher price, you should be happy that the dealer thought of you enough to try to help. Of course, Dealer A is going to attempt to make his gas tank fill-up... or rent check for the month, or whatever their fee was... they "found" your coins.
In other words... how is this different from a dealer that buys stuff from the mint and then resells it to the public for a profit? Should every dealer be required to tell clients that the 2010 Silver Proof set can be purchased directly from the mint?
IMHO, you should have politely declined the offer and not lost sleep over the deal. At least they were trying to do something for you. I wonder what they'll do the next time a coin they know you want shows up.
Fire up the flames if you want, but I'm just trying to give an alternative...
Peace!
Steve
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
From the first post he says that they just purchased the coins when they didn't.
<< <i>Okay... time for a variation to the theme....
First of all, I am not condoning the dealers actions because it seems like deceit was involved... but
Let me see if I get this right...
Dealer #1 knows you like certain types of coins...
They call you to tell you they have found your coins.... "hey, we found your coins because we are thinking of you..."
Why does it matter that the coins are on another dealers site?
Instead of being angry that the coins are being offered to you at a higher price, you should be happy that the dealer thought of you enough to try to help. Of course, Dealer A is going to attempt to make his gas tank fill-up... or rent check for the month, or whatever their fee was... they "found" your coins.
In other words... how is this different from a dealer that buys stuff from the mint and then resells it to the public for a profit? Should every dealer be required to tell clients that the 2010 Silver Proof set can be purchased directly from the mint?
IMHO, you should have politely declined the offer and not lost sleep over the deal. At least they were trying to do something for you. I wonder what they'll do the next time a coin they know you want shows up.
Fire up the flames if you want, but I'm just trying to give an alternative...
Peace!
Steve >>
Steve;
Clearly each person is entitled to charg/ask as much as they please. In fact, thats how most dealers make their money-want lists.
I can tell a dealer I need say a 1916-d mercury dime in vg. He then emails me and tells me hes being offered one and it would cost me $1700. Lets say it will only cost him $1600, because of the fact that he took the time (whatever that was) to find a coin I want/need, he is "charging" me $100 for his service.
All that is fine by me.
Its just like somebody brokering a deal where they take a small cut for the brokering. In this case the specifics of the deal were clouded in lies. Thats just bad ethics.
<< <i>First of all, I am not condoning the dealers actions because it seems like deceit was involved... but
In this case the specifics of the deal were clouded in lies. Thats just bad ethics. >>
Uh... I agree with you on that point.
But after 35+ years of dealing with this industry, I've found very few dealers that are 100% ethical 100% of the time.
It's sad... but unfortunately happens.
Glad to see you reacted in a positive manner to Dealer A... don't burn the bridge outright.
Peace!
Steve
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
<< <i>What about the time and effort dealer #1 took to "think" of you >>
I agree, if I knew who the dealer was I might be tempted to send a check to him myself.
<< <i>You "like getting first shot at nice coins", but dont expect to have to pay a bit of a premium to enjoy that luxury? What about the time and effort dealer #1 took to "think" of you. You cant have it both ways. >>
Did you miss the OP's last post, 2 posts above yours?
"Clearly each person is entitled to charg/ask as much as they please. In fact, thats how most dealers make their money-want lists.
I can tell a dealer I need say a 1916-d mercury dime in vg. He then emails me and tells me hes being offered one and it would cost me $1700. Lets say it will only cost him $1600, because of the fact that he took the time (whatever that was) to find a coin I want/need, he is "charging" me $100 for his service.
All that is fine by me.
Its just like somebody brokering a deal where they take a small cut for the brokering. In this case the specifics of the deal were clouded in lies. Thats just bad ethics."
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
I dont think im being out of line or too harsh, just saying that if you want to stand out in the crowd enough to have first pick at rare quality coins, then dont damn the seller for trying to make a few bucks off of you. Thats all. And the way I read the initial post, thats what the OP was doing.