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Who Will Win This Paypal Case?

colts900colts900 Posts: 314
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
Hey guys I recently have a paypal case where a buyer is not happy with the cards I sent him. I never had scans and he wanted to make the deal anyways. After he received the cards he is saying that due to my packaging some of the corners on the cards were damaged. However based on the scans he showed to me the cards look identical to when I sent them. Can he really win this case against me?
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Comments

  • drewsefdrewsef Posts: 1,894 ✭✭
    he will win without question
  • gameusedhoopgameusedhoop Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭✭
    This an ebay transaction? If so, the buyer will probably win. If not on ebay there is not as much buyer protection, and you should win especially if you have his emails that say send them anyway.

    Either way, time for a scanner? Would keep this issue from happening.
  • GB5HOFGB5HOF Posts: 590 ✭
    It may not be worth the fight on your end. I returned money to a guy on a miscut vintage card that had CLEARLY been represented in my 11 photos. I even mentioned the cut in my description. If you have "no returns" clearly stated in your auction....you'd probably win. However, you have to weigh the result of the poor feedback you are ultimately going to receive from the buyer. My two cents is that I'd rather keep my feedback perfect...than keep the money on one sale. You'll have many more in your future. Think long term.
  • colts900colts900 Posts: 314
    It was not an ebay auction. It was a sale a while ago on another site. But the other problem is I closed this paypal account about a week ago before he even contacted me about this issue. How do I resolve the dispute if the account is no longer active?
  • slaphappyslaphappy Posts: 145


    << <i>It may not be worth the fight on your end. I returned money to a guy on a miscut vintage card that had CLEARLY been represented in my 11 photos. I even mentioned the cut in my description. If you have "no returns" clearly stated in your auction....you'd probably win. However, you have to weigh the result of the poor feedback you are ultimately going to receive from the buyer. My two cents is that I'd rather keep my feedback perfect...than keep the money on one sale. You'll have many more in your future. Think long term. >>



    your return makes no difference to Paypal. If it is aan Ebay transaction you might as well be ready to refund and face the possibility the cards may be gone as well.
  • GB5HOFGB5HOF Posts: 590 ✭
    Sorry...my reading comprehension is poor today. Carry on.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭


    << <i>It was not an ebay auction. It was a sale a while ago on another site. But the other problem is I closed this paypal account about a week ago before he even contacted me about this issue. How do I resolve the dispute if the account is no longer active? >>




    ////////////////////////////////////



    There is NO PayPal "buyer protection" for SNAD items in off-EBAY
    transactions. Only INR claims are covered.

    As long as you can prove delivery - via Delivery Confirmation if under
    $250 - you will not lose the dispute/claim.












    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Not sure you can win or lose since you no longer have the account.

    For giggles how much money are we talking about?


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • colts900colts900 Posts: 314
    Ya I can provide tracking. It was an 100$ deal so might not seem big but it was a lot for me. And that is what I am worrying about. I no longer have the account so how do I fight it?
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Sorry, one other question. Do you consider your packaging poor?

    Or do you consider it acceptable?


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Not sure you can win or lose since you no longer have the account.


    Steve >>




    ///////////////////////////////

    In an EBAY transaction.........which this is not:

    You can lose if the claim is filed thru - or referred back to
    by PayPal - EBAY's "Resolution Center."

    EBAY will hit the backup-funding for any refunds they issue thru
    the "Resolution Center," if your PayPal account is empty/closed.

    The EBAY scheme can be opted-out of, but the process has
    become complex. See the newest UA.


    All moot here since there is no SNAD protection off-EBAY.





    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • colts900colts900 Posts: 314
    I thought I packaged them perfectly. I sent them the way I originally received them and saw no damage from the original transaction. I also put packing peanuts in the box to assure nothing would move around
  • colts900colts900 Posts: 314


    << <i>

    << <i>Not sure you can win or lose since you no longer have the account.


    Steve >>




    ///////////////////////////////

    In an EBAY transaction.........which this is not:

    You can lose if the claim is filed thru - or referred back to
    by PayPal - EBAY's "Resolution Center."

    EBAY will hit the backup-funding for any refunds they issue thru
    the "Resolution Center," if your PayPal account is empty/closed.

    The EBAY scheme can be opted-out of, but the process has
    become complex. See the newest UA.


    All moot here since there is no SNAD protection off-EBAY. >>



    So what happens since it is an off ebay deal?
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Ya I can provide tracking. It was an 100$ deal so might not seem big but it was a lot for me. And that is what I am worrying about. I no longer have the account so how do I fight it? >>



    ///////////////////

    Repeat:

    There is NO SNAD protection on PayPal transactions off-EBAY.

    The SNAD dispute/claim will be rejected.

    No action by you required.




    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Colts I have 2 questions:

    1...............You said 'a while back' how long ago?

    2...............You said he contacted you about this case.

    Does this mean PP has yet to contact you?


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Storm

    You are right, I should have said:

    Not sure how you can win or lose since you no longer have the PP account AND this was an off ebay transaction too.

    Steve
    Good for you.
  • colts900colts900 Posts: 314
    The item was purchased on 8/09. He PMed me on the site about the case and paypal has sent me an email. Thanks for your help guys i is good to know that since this is off ebay the claim will be rejected.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    I'm thinking this guy wanted to use you as an approval service.

    At least from what info I have been given.

    I'm sure if he came by he'd have a totally different version of events.


    lol


    Another thing to worry about is the possibilty that if you do accept the return you often

    get back a few examples that you never sent. Often times people have be known to cherry

    a few of those sent and send back an inferior specimen. Not saying this guy would do this.....


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • colts900colts900 Posts: 314
    The thing is how would I accept a return? If I do not go on my account at all will paypal know this is an off ebay deal and automatically throw out the dispute? Thanks again.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    You could accept a return even without PP knowing.

    Simply, next time the guy emails you tell him to send the cards back and when you get em you will mail him a check.

    I know this leave you open to more shenanigins from this guy....just sayin


    Or tell him to drop the case, send the cards, and you will send him a check.





    Steve

    Good for you.
  • colts900colts900 Posts: 314
    If I dont accept a return and just let this thing go will paypal still drop his case?
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    According to what Storm said I believe yes.

    Or you could tell him to pound sand....


    What Storm said:


    Repeat:

    There is NO SNAD protection on PayPal transactions off-EBAY.

    The SNAD dispute/claim will be rejected.

    No action by you required.
    ===========================================================

    I think this is simply because you said you had a DC for the transaction and the only way the guy could have won is by an Item not received.

    Steve
    Good for you.
  • lsutigers1973lsutigers1973 Posts: 11,093 ✭
    Has this board gone full ruhtard?

    Supposedly off eBay transaction with a Paypal claim against an account that he no longer has, probably from screwing someone else. Who cares?
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    hey we think the best of everyone here, heck even you.


    image


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • MeteoriteGuyMeteoriteGuy Posts: 7,140 ✭✭
    When someone is being careful not to provide all the info and gives somewhat strange answers...meaning the OP. One has to wonder.

    How do you have a Pay Pal case right now?

    You still have the DC from a year ago?

    How about telling what the cards are and showing us how he found them?

    What do you mean you packaged them exactly as you got them? It is pretty strange to find two people that pack exactly alike....even when using the same materials.
    Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards.
    Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
  • gumbyfangumbyfan Posts: 5,168 ✭✭✭
    Reading between the lines and being as cynical as usual, selling $100 worth of cards without providing a scan and then closing your paypal account sure makes it sound to me like you knew you were selling a product which was inferior to that which you advertised. Your rather consistent interest in the duck & run method of handling this supports my assertation.

    I don't care if the buyer didn't require scans...but nobody is buying cards without at least a cursory description of the condition. Did you say they were NM and they were EX? If a seller with integrity had cards to sell without scans, they would offer their opinions and a full refund if the cards did not match the description when received.

    Also, you indicated that the buyer's complaint was that the fashion in which you shipped them caused damage to the corners. When asked how they were shipped your response was, "I sent them the way I originally received them and saw no damage from the original transaction. I also put packing peanuts in the box to assure nothing would move around" I don't think that completely answers the question at hand. Did you throw them in a shoe box and top it off with packing peanuts? Were they in a set box? How many cards and how were they shipped?

    As for the overall situation, I prefer to deal with folks who stand behind their products, as opposed to those who close their paypal account and run for the hills over a $100 deal.

    But that's just me and how I see it.
  • WaltWalt Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭
    I had this happen, the buyer can't win. As soon as he escalates the claim he will lose. The only way he gets his money back is if you
    send it back to him.
  • BlacklabelsocietyBlacklabelsociety Posts: 1,033


    << <i>It was not an ebay auction. It was a sale a while ago on another site. But the other problem is I closed this paypal account about a week ago before he even contacted me about this issue. How do I resolve the dispute if the account is no longer active? >>



    How long ago? The buyer only has 45 days to file.
  • colts900colts900 Posts: 314
    Alright guys sorry for leaving out the details. What I mean is that I sent them in the exact same box and cases that I received them in. I also closed the account before he even told me he had a problem with the cards it was completely unrelated. As for the cards it was a large lot and I said everything was EX-MT or better. Here are the six examples he showed me where he thinks they were not described correctly.

    image
  • colts900colts900 Posts: 314


    << <i>Has this board gone full ruhtard?

    Supposedly off eBay transaction with a Paypal claim against an account that he no longer has, probably from screwing someone else. Who cares? >>



    I closed the account for personal reasons so please do not make assumptions.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭

    EX-MT 6: Excellent-Mint

    A PSA EX-MT 6 card may have visible surface wear or a printing defect which does not detract from its overall appeal. A very light scratch may be detected only upon close inspection. Corners may have slightly graduated fraying. Picture focus may be slightly out-of-register. Card may show some loss of original gloss, may have minor wax stain on reverse, may exhibit very slight notching on edges and may also show some off-whiteness on borders. Centering must be 80/20 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the reverse.
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • MeteoriteGuyMeteoriteGuy Posts: 7,140 ✭✭
    Not sure what a large lot means, so if it was say 30 or more, and this was not all the keys, and not knowing how exactly the transaction was worded, I would think most buyer would accept the cards. That is if the transaction was recent. A year later...kinda strange to even make a refund request. When selling an old lot, one should always use most, or around or the like.
    Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards.
    Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
  • colts900colts900 Posts: 314
    I told him that some of the cards were off center but corners were EX-MT or better. I know what I am going to do now thanks for the help
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Mark you keep saying a year later, now I'm confused. I thought this all went down 2 weeks ago?

    I thought I read it happened on 8-9. Silly me for assuming it was August 9th of the current year.

    Steve
    Good for you.
  • MeteoriteGuyMeteoriteGuy Posts: 7,140 ✭✭
    Not sure where I was getting that. Maybe the OP misworded the second post he edited?

    You should make it right with the cust. You said EX-MT and it was just the other week.

    If I was the buyer, I would likely not have asked for a refund, if it was not more then 20% of the cards and the keys as I noted (older cards are often oc). But the six shown are likely not EX-MT to many people.
    Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards.
    Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    I will agree with you on the info part, it's like pulling teeth around here to get

    all the info in a half sided story. Storm and I were saying that just today too.

    I doubt he changed that 2nd post, only 2 minutes went by and I've been back and forth with him the entire time.

    IMO and if it was me I'd try to work with the guy and give him back some dough I guess.

    I dunno, I don't sell cards without a scan. I usually mess up by not changing the title.

    Steve
    Good for you.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭


    << <i> I know what I am going to do now thanks for the help >>




    Something tells me the word sand will be in your email to him.


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • gumbyfangumbyfan Posts: 5,168 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i> I know what I am going to do now thanks for the help >>




    Something tells me the word sand will be in your email to him.


    Steve >>



    See, now I don't think the buyer is even going to get an email. Inclusive of sand or not.

    "If I dont accept a return and just let this thing go will paypal still drop his case?" doesn't say a lot about communication with the buyer.

  • MeteoriteGuyMeteoriteGuy Posts: 7,140 ✭✭
    Strange the OP would ask if Pay Pal will let them rip off a customer. Was trying to give the OP a little more credit.

    By the way, if I gas and go tonight and they get my tags in the camera....do you think they will prosecute if I make sure I take less then $10?
    Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards.
    Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
  • gumbyfangumbyfan Posts: 5,168 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Strange the OP would ask if Pay Pal will let them rip off a customer. Was trying to give the OP a little more credit.

    By the way, if I gas and go tonight and they get my tags in the camera....do you think they will prosecute if I make sure I take less then $10? >>



    $10 is a lot to some people. I say they prosecute. If I were you, I'd remove the tags from your car before you go just in case.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Hey the guy has been a member here for 7 months.


    image


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • lsutigers1973lsutigers1973 Posts: 11,093 ✭


    << <i>Hey the guy has been a member here for 7 months.


    image


    Steve >>



    Or about 3 years
  • slaphappyslaphappy Posts: 145
    If this transaction happened in 2009 then I say screw them. Paypal won't do anything and in fact they should not have even been allowed to file anything after that time.

    At this point the DC has probaly been recycled into the system making it no good.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    The transaction was on August 9th 2010.

    It was off ebay.

    The OP just happened to close out his PP acct. before the buyer complained.

    The OP sent them the same way he got them.

    The buyer filed through PP

    The seller has a DC which is all that is needed as a SNAD can't be filed only an INR.

    The seller is going to tell the buyer to pound sand, or not say anything and blow the guy off.


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • Mickey71Mickey71 Posts: 4,261 ✭✭✭✭
    I sent the cards the same way I got them---What the hell kind of statement is that. I'm still trying to figure that out. It sounds bogus.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭


    This is the MOST cluster forked thread in history.





    imageimageimage


    imageimageimage


    image ............................. image




    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • colts900colts900 Posts: 314
    I am not trying to scam this buyer. I am going to work out a partial refund he thinks is fair.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Attaboy.


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • gumbyfangumbyfan Posts: 5,168 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I am not trying to scam this buyer. I am going to work out a partial refund he thinks is fair. >>



    Call me cynical, but with all of the previous interest in ducking & running...I can't help but think this is a feeble attempt to save face here.
  • lsutigers1973lsutigers1973 Posts: 11,093 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I am not trying to scam this buyer. I am going to work out a partial refund he thinks is fair. >>



    Call me cynical, but with all of the previous interest in ducking & running...I can't help but think this is a feeble attempt to save face here. >>



    I concurreth
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