So How Do You Give Up ZERO Earned Runs In 6.2 Innings And Still Lose A Game?

megatron

If your name is Felix Hernandez and you play for the Mariners and your player makes an error that should have led to the end of the inning - that is how.

Man, must be very tough playing as a pitcher in SEA.

I remember earlier this year, Cliff Lee pitched a complete game, gave up ONE run, and lost.

calaban7

You're kidding right ?

If a pitcher gives up say 3 unearned runs and their team only scores 2 runs , he loses.

Pretty basic.----- Sonny

calaban7

Sorry , misunderstood your question.

Same answer applies though.-- Sonny

stown

You haven't been watching the 'Stros for the past 5 years.

stown

Recently heard on the radio:

In the past 2 years, the 'Stros scored zero runs in 16 of Oswalt's starts.

edited to clarify: zero runs scored while Roy was in the game.

megatron

<< <i>Recently heard on the radio:

In the past 2 years, the 'Stros scored zero runs in 16 of Oswalt's starts.

edited to clarify: zero runs scored while Roy was in the game. >>

digicat

Matt Cain pitched a complete game earlier this season, gave up no earned runs (1 unearned), and he took the loss, 1 to 0.

alnavman

this happens a lot with pitchers who are the recipient of excellent team defense combined with bats that go silent whenever they pitch.....if my memory serves me correctly Kevin Millwood led the league in ERA his year with Cleveland yet his record was something like 7-11 or something along those lines. You actually can feel sorry for those pitchers.

al.

Saberman

According to many posters on this board it is because theses pitchers don't know how to 'pitch to the score', or 'don't know how to win'.

markj111

<< <i>According to many posters on this board it is because theses pitchers don't know how to 'pitch to the score', or 'don't know how to win'. >>






Sad, but true.

Saberman

<< <i>Recently heard on the radio:

In the past 2 years, the 'Stros scored zero runs in 16 of Oswalt's starts.

edited to clarify: zero runs scored while Roy was in the game. >>



Stown, you can't advocate the use of stats when it suits your needs...then discount it when it doesn't.

CrimsonTider

Well said Saberman, even though I have not the faintest idea of what your trying to say. Just the simple fact that you are throwing it back into the face of Stown! Take that Stown!!!!

Teach him to ride his bike and help out others!

BTW, what was the topic of this thread?

stown

<< <i>

<< <i>Recently heard on the radio:

In the past 2 years, the 'Stros scored zero runs in 16 of Oswalt's starts.

edited to clarify: zero runs scored while Roy was in the game. >>



Stown, you can't advocate the use of stats when it suits your needs...then discount it when it doesn't. >>



I don't follow... Where have I ever said that you shouldn't use any stats to evaluate a player? I've ALWAYS said you can't look at any sport in black or white. There are shades of grey that cannot be accounted for in both statistics and watching. My point has ALWAYS been using both methods to evalute a players performance, not solely one or the other.

Nice try and better luck next time.

ernie11

<< <i>If your name is Felix Hernandez and you play for the Mariners and your player makes an error that should have led to the end of the inning - that is how.

Man, must be very tough playing as a pitcher in SEA.

>>



What does he have now - a 2.62 ERA, and his record is 8-10? Sheesh...

Brick

There are lies, dam lies, and statistics.

Tabe

<< <i>If your name is Felix Hernandez and you play for the Mariners and your player makes an error that should have led to the end of the inning - that is how. >>


Incredibly misleading. Yeah, they're all unearned runs but...

Figgins committed his error with no one on base (replays showed the guy was actually out but I digress...). All the stuff that came after is directly at the feet of Felix, earned runs or not. The grand slam that he gave up? All Hernandez. All the other line drives and so on? All Felix. Seriously, Figgins committed an error that put a single runner on FIRST. That Felix gave up 6 runs after that was his fault, whether they were earned or not.

Trivia Question:

What is the record for the most runs allowed in a game without any of them being earned?

Tabe

Tabe

<< <i>What does he have now - a 2.62 ERA, and his record is 8-10? Sheesh... >>


In 1987, the year of the juiced baseball, Nolan Ryan led the NL with an ERA of 2.76.

His record? 8-16, the worst winning % by an ERA champ ever.

Tabe

calaban7

In 1987 the great Nolan Ryan led the league in Era with a 2.76 era . He was the only pitcher with an Era below 3.00. His record that year was a numbing 8 wins-- 16 defeats. In his 16 loses he pitched a total of 88 innings giving up 46 runs (40 earned) while his team score , while he was pitching a grand total of (14) runs.

Not good .

In his (10) games that he had no desicion , he had 66 innings pitched , with his team scoring 25 runs , while he gave up only 20 runs. The bullpen lost numerous leads for him.

In his 8 wins he pitched 57 innings allowing 7 earned runs ( 1.11 Era) while his team score 42 runs while he pitched.
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I remember the brain-less Tim McCarver , when Dave Stieb in 1985 led the league with a 2.48 Era with a record of 14 wins and 13 loses , stating thar "Dave pitched well in about every other game ." Dave had 2 bad outings all season , and team scored squat for him , most of the year.
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Its a team game. Pitchers pitch , batters hit. The low end of the stick always loses. You can pitch great , but if your team scores nothing , SOL.

WinPitcher

Skip

Stown wasn't advocating anything. He simply stated what he heard on a radio.


A little fast with the gun I'd say.

So has Howard morphed into Kingman yet?


Steve

Saberman

Winpitcher, he will...and once people understand the lineup factor and era, it will be much closer than you think. The point is, he has had one HOF type season, the others were good to very good, but helped very much by the lineup. In the end, he will be more like Dave Kingman, than like a typical LEGITIMATE HOF hitter. The RBI totals fool people into other ideas, including yourself...because everytime you laugh at the free throw analogy, it shows that you STILL don't understand the impact of baserunners on RBI totals. You say you do, but your words never back it up when push comes to shove, and you give your typical first grade analysis.


Oh, and I thought Howard was a big game player like you professed??? Did he just strike out again in a big game?


And don't be upset because you know you are one of the bigger myth believers on this board about pitching to the score and pitchers 'knowing how to win', and have used that about Jack Morris and others....maybe Stown's eyes helped you draw that conclusion, LOL.


Stown, it isn't a matter of black and white...it is a matter of accuracy, and when it comes to baseball hitting, perception and eyes tell one nothing compared to what the results do. The eyes may help in terms of scouting and predicting prospects by examining mechanics and such...but not what you are saying.

stown

<< <i>Winpitcher, he will...and once people understand the lineup factor and era, it will be much closer than you think. The point is, he has had one HOF type season, the others were good to very good, but helped very much by the lineup. In the end, he will be more like Dave Kingman, than like a typical LEGITIMATE HOF hitter. The RBI totals fool people into other ideas, including yourself...because everytime you laugh at the free throw analogy, it shows that you STILL don't understand the impact of baserunners on RBI totals. You say you do, but your words never back it up when push comes to shove, and you give your typical first grade analysis.


Oh, and I thought Howard was a big game player like you professed??? Did he just strike out again in a big game?


And don't be upset because you know you are one of the bigger myth believers on this board about pitching to the score and pitchers 'knowing how to win', and have used that about Jack Morris and others....maybe Stown's eyes helped you draw that conclusion, LOL.


Stown, it isn't a matter of black and white...it is a matter of accuracy, and when it comes to baseball hitting, perception and eyes tell one nothing compared to what the results do. The eyes may help in terms of scouting and predicting prospects by examining mechanics and such...but not what you are saying. >>



I don't understand what you're arguing. We're discussing about lack of run support. I said Roy had zero runs in 16 games last two seasons.

Strawman much?

Saberman

Stown,

Just messing with WinPitcher.

stown

I knew that you knew that I knew better than that.



And yes, that was a random Eddie Murphy reference.

Tabe

<< <i>What is the record for the most runs allowed in a game without any of them being earned?

Tabe >>


The answer, by the way, is *16*. Scored by the Mets in a 1985 game against the Houston Astros:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYN/NYN198507271.shtml

Tabe

stown

E: G Rivera (1); P Garner (16); D Thon (8); G Davis 2 (2)

Wow, the big bopper had 2? They must have been a really bad day in the field.

Estil

How about Game 5 of the 1996 World Series, where John Smoltz lost to Andy Pettitte in a 1-0 game; that one run being unearned.