Is it normal for a brilliant white NGC MS 65 coin to tone in the holder over a 20 year period?

customroll

I received a few 1959 Roosi dimes in NGC MS 65 holders that were given away by NGC as gifts at the 1991 ANA show in Chicago. They were brilliant white when they were received, but now are showing toning and have never been out of the holders. Is this normal??

blu62vette

yes it is normal......

customroll

I always thought that since the holders are supposed to be hermetically sealed that a white coin would stay white. I have other coins that are not hermetically sealed that are even older that stayed brilliant white.
Thanks for your response.

blu62vette

you will see this on old fatty NGC coins and old small ANACS. I read somewhere white plastic is not inert but I do not know what true it is.

Bochiman

<< <i>I always thought that since the holders are supposed to be hermetically sealed that a white coin would stay white. I have other coins that are not hermetically sealed that are even older that stayed brilliant white.
Thanks for your response. >>




What holders are "hermetically" sealed? Not the 3rd party grading service slabs (NGC/PCGS/etc).

customroll

Somehow I always thought they were. Can't remember why I got that thought in my head though.
Thanks

relicsncoins

I think it's the paper label on those old NGC and Anacs holders that cause coins to tone over time.

WoodenJefferson

The slabs are sealed in a climate controlled area, a sort of clean room, but ambient air is sonically sealed so to speak inside the slab. To hermetically seal, you'd need a chamber where moisture/oxygen could be removed and then an inert gas introduced which would really drive up the cost of encapsulation.

Also, if toning has started on a silver coin, it will continue to tone even if placed into a plastic slab.

Agreed, slabbing a blast white silver coin will keep it from elements that will accelerate toning, but it will still oxidize no matter what.

customroll

<< <i>Also, if toning has started on a silver coin, it will continue to tone even if placed into a plastic slab. >>



If that is true why aren't any of my silver Commems., especially ones from the 1991 Shepherd collection sale, continuing to tone in their PCGS slabs? They all still look exactly as they did back in 1991.
Not trying to be a smart a** here, just looking for some education.
Thanks

Broadstruck

<< <i>

<< <i>Also, if toning has started on a silver coin, it will continue to tone even if placed into a plastic slab. >>



If that is true why aren't any of my silver Commems., especially ones from the 1991 Shepherd collection sale, continuing to tone in their PCGS slabs? They all still look exactly as they did back in 1991.
Not trying to be a smart a** here, just looking for some education.
Thanks >>



Good to hear as Coin World hammered the issue of possible continual toning in slabs for a period of 6 months back in early 90's and created major angst among the toned coin collectors back then.

To date the only holders that I know of are the early NGC Soap Bar and early low digit ANACS white chase holders that had slab inserts which where not divided from the coin region of the slab. These did tone the coins and my Isabella below is an example of such toning IMHO, but it has stabilized as no further toning has occurred in the last 6 years.

customroll

Here's a photo of Lot #89 from the Larry Shepherd Sale of Aug 11, 1991, in Chicago. Looks the same now as it did then. Photo was taken today in natural sunlight and not edited. Compare it to the photo in your new Catalog Frank.

kryptonitecomics

First of all....the dime in question is in an old NGC no line fattie holder so named becuase there isn't a line or different compartment for the label...it's sealed in the same compartment with the coin and all paper has traces of sulfer from the process of making the paper from wood pulp by way of breaking down the wood with sulfuric acid. A silver coin placed in an environment with sulfer is going to tone...especially over 20 years. The other coin in the PCGS holder would not suffer the same fate becuase the old PCGS rattlers were not know to tone coins over time, probably because there is space between the coin and the label. Also when a coin tones.... a layer of silver sulfide forms a protective skin on the coins surface which can prevent further toning if the coin is taken out of the environment that caused the toning. Since the commem was already toned when it was graded by pcgs....and it was no longer in the album etc that caused the toning...there would be no reason for it to continue to tone. Naturally Toned coins can sit in holders for decades and show no changes. That's why artificially toned coins are so unpredictable...when you add chemicals and heat to the surface of a coin, those contaminants will continue to react on the coins surface unless proprely neutralized/rinsed. Folks not in the know always like to assume that when a coin starts to tone it will simply continue to tone until it turns black but that simply isn't the case unless the coin is left in a reactive environment or still has something on the surface.

customroll

Great information Dan. Thanks so much.

wilskyy

Yeah the toning is absolutely normal

roadrunner

Original blazing white coins still have a light patina on them protecting them from additional toning if not put directly back into a sulpher-laden environment. They might be technically 95-99% white but look perfectly untoned to most of us. But dipped coins, esp. ones not properly rinsed or neutralized can retone rather quickly. So unless you know the source of your white coin it's hard to know if they will tone further over time or not.

roadrunner

coinkat

cool item

Mowgli

Great info. I have Danscos 20 years old with "white"coins that look like they did when first put in the album - except where the plastic sleeves were in a little crooked. Those few coins toned where the air could get to them. They did not have the slip covers.

tahoe98

...i can cope with toning in a slab. it's the pvc that REALLY upsets me!

IrishMikey

One of the theories with the old white inserts is that the companies manufacturing them used
some type of lubricant to allow the newly molded plastic to pop out of the mold easier. This
substance would typically be used on the cone that formed the coin opening in the insert. While
the actual plastic used for these inserts is inert, this microscopic layer of lubricant would begin
to initiate toning around the rims of the sealed coin. As was previously stated, the air sealed into
the holder (around the coin) would provide the needed oxygen, as would seepage around the
shells.

This process would vary, depending on the condition of the coin's surfaces at the time of
encapsulation, the atmospheric conditions surrounding the coin & holder during storage, the metal
composition of the coin, etc. Coins with any type of toning or patina would be more resistant, since
a protective "coating" had already formed on the coin.

All of that being said, I think the toning on your dime is pretty cool.

Steve27

"I always thought that since the holders are supposed to be hermetically sealed that a white coin would stay white. "

First, the holders are not hermetically sealed, and not all are sealed the same. So if you really want to keep your coins white, you need to store them in a cool dry place with a desiccant.

yellowkid

I 'm not saying this about your Roosevelt, but I would assume that many "white" coins have been dipped once, IMHO this would pre-dispose them to toning in the slab.