Plus grades and the regisrtry game

sinin1

I checked my status on my registry set, and noticed one of the low top pop coins had a couple more since I last checked


and then I was checking the sets above me to see what I needed to get a bump
and one of the sets had a + graded coin which threw me off


XX 66's 2 66+ 4 67's


now I get an email saying they will start using plus grading on all coins


It may be time to send in my set for regrade, and take the downgrades and loss of designations that will possibly come with it

DennisH

That's what they want you to do... pay more grading fees.
Don't give in.

DMWJR

Why would you have to take a downgrade or loss of designation?

WaterSport

Why would you have to take a downgrade or loss of designation?


Doug: The boards have repeatedly post (by brave members) the results of coins being downgraded, body bagged, etc. So yes, the coin in the PCGS holders sent in for plus does NOT get sent back as if there is a problem with it and many have been surprised.

WS

sinin1

the reason I may have some downgrades is that my set is a 11 coin war nickel set
and the coins are all PCGS graded MS66FS or MS67FS

the FS designation has been looser at times it seems as a couple of my coins look close but not quite by todays standards
(perceived by me - but I am biased a couple points and designation - because I own them)

I also have a couple MS67s that do not have the FS designation, but have very close steps ( better than a couple of mine with the FS designation )
that I will send in as well


My understanding is they crack them out and regrade them, and if coin is lowered in grade or designation,
a buy-back/reimbursement is made by PCGS


But probably for the best when the difference for some is a $800 vs $100 coin
and heck who knows, I may even get a plus or 2

CarsonCityGold

Coins submitted for "Regrade" are NOT subject to the grade being lowered or designation removed.
It will receive a new cert number and can only go up or stay the same. If they are currently Trueviewed you will lose those images as the old numbers will no longer be "hot".

jacktheknife

I have yet to play this game, but my understanding is that a coin cracked out can be downgraded or BB'd. A coin submitted in its holder can receive no grade lower than its original holder. Is this still the case?


Jack

illini420

<< <i>I have yet to play this game, but my understanding is that a coin cracked out can be downgraded or BB'd. A coin submitted in its holder can receive no grade lower than its original holder. Is this still the case?


Jack >>



not based on what I have read from posters here. Sure, if submitted in the holder the grade is guaranteed. But if you send in a copper coin graded 66RD that has since turned RB in the holder or has spotted to the point where it just isn't a 66RD, PCGS won't reholder it as a 66RD. It seems that they will regrade the coin with the appropriate grade and if that grade is lower than the grade you sent it in to PCGS at, then compensation must be negotiated. What isn't clear is that if you bought those RD copper coins after 1/1/10 w/o the copper color guarantee, whether PCGS could or would downgrade you to a 66RB on a regrade and offer no compensation.

DennisH

<< <i>Coins submitted for "Regrade" are NOT subject to the grade being lowered or designation removed.
It will receive a new cert number and can only go up or stay the same. If they are currently Trueviewed you will lose those images as the old numbers will no longer be "hot". >>

Sorry, but that's no longer true. According to PCGS President Don Willis, any time they handle a coin now it is examined to make sure the grade is accurate and problems were not missed the first time.

DMWJR

Thanks Bob and Dennis. Looks like I have some research to do before I submit any for regrade. I was not aware that they might refuse to send me the coin back in the same grade holder.

scottgardener

I can confirm that a coin submitted in a holder CAN get downgraded--and that you will get reimbursed the difference. For the April-June 2010 quarterly special, I sent in a 1907 MS63 Liberty $2.50, thinking it would upgrade to 63+ or even 64. I got back an email from PCGS saying that it downgraded and was offered either the coin back raw and $650, or a full buy-back at $1000. (I chose the latter.) Eventually, when the grade posted, it was GENUINE with the code for altered surfaces.

I fear that PCGS will be taking a beating from their own crack-down on suspicious or borderline coins. In the end, though, it'll drive up the value of coins that have successfully graded.

sinin1

My understanding is on regrades is they 'guarantee' the grade



and if by some far-off chance (<3%) the coin is lower than originally, the grade guarantee comes into affect



so they 'guarantee' the coins will not go down, but if by some fluke in previous grading, the coin now scores lower

you will get the coin + 'cash difference', cash value of original graded coin, or a ?replacement coin? having previous score


That is what makes PCGS the top tier grading company it is

DonWillis

According to PCGS President Don Willis, any time they handle a coin now it is examined to make sure the grade is accurate and problems were not missed the first time.

Dennis, you are technically correct but this needs a little perspective.

PCGS honors it's grade guarantee whenever we find a PCGS holdered coin that has developed a spot or some other problem, had a color change, or for some other reason no longer qualifies for its current grade. We buy coins out of auction, off the bourse floor, or whenever they come to our attention in support of our guarantee. So yes, we do sometimes buy back coins that are sent into us for grading as well. This is very rare but it does happen. We hope this is viewed as honorably supporting our guarantee, not something dark and ominous that you need to be worried about. As a collector I would hope that all grading services would not simply put an overgraded or problem coin back in a holder and return it to me. Don't you?

Coins sent into PCGS under our Regrade service are guaranteed not to go down in grade or we will buy it back.

DMWJR

Thanks Don for the clarification, and I never even considered PCGS wouldn't compensate for the downgrade.

I think a legitimate concern is that reasonable minds can disagree on the grade or more particularly the designation of a coin, evidenced even by PCGS's own graders. Let's say I had a Mercury dime in 64FB, and sent it in for a regrade thinking it was a 64+ or a 65. PCGS contacts me and says they agree that it is a 65, but it really isn't FB. Would PCGS refuse to put it back in a 64FB holder? Same thing if I just sent a 64FB coin in for a secure holder and not an upgrade. If PCGS thought it was not a 64 or maybe a 64 but not FB, would you refuse to put it back in a regular 64FB holder?

DonWillis

Doug, It is easy to give the wrong impression when answering theoritical questions. Theoritically the answer to your questions is yes. I don't know if it has ever happened however. What has happened is we have found FB coins that have developed some kind of problem that can't be corrected. That's when our guarantee kicks in and we buy the coin back.

BTW - Dennis: That's what they want you to do... pay more grading fees. Don't give in.

Give me a break. We add + grades to the Standard service at no additional cost and you are bashing us? Yes our business is grading coins but we are not holding a gun to your head. + grades are now available at no additional cost. What part of free don't you like?

DMWJR

Thanks Don.

Not only do I appreciate your open communication (sometimes lacking at PCGS in years past), I also appreciate the opportunity to get a plus on a coin and have a PQ coin recognized for what it is. Especially now that it is offered as a part of the regular service. What's to complain about?

Incidentally, my first hand experience has been positive. Andy just took a few of my Indians to the invitational. One upgraded, and another PCGS asked if they could buy back because they felt it was RB and not Red. I agreed to sell it back because I recently replaced the coin and could appreciate the position that your graders were taking on the coin. In short, the process worked exactly like it should have.

scottgardener

And, I am extremely impressed that PCGS does actively live up to its guarantee. A lot of companies in other venues talk about offering great guarantees, but when calls are made to customer service, a network of denials, hold times, and "it's actually your fault" comes into play. PCGS, however, went out of its way to approach me with a problem about which I was not even aware, complete with a remedy and compensation, costing the company money--knowing that by maintaining a reputation of high honor and respectability, the buy-back would pay for itself in the long run many times over.

I hope the best in the ongoing battle against coin doctoring, as I know buy-backs like mine must be costing you a fortune, even with multiple top-notch experts reviewing each submission. In spite of the adage, "buy the coin, not the holder," I have to admit giving heavy preference to coins backed by guarantees I feel are really being enforced.

That you actively patrol sales and auctions, looking for the one that slipped by--I wish other companies in other fields had even a fraction of that commitment to quality control. If drug companies had this sense of honor, a lot of flawed medicines would have never stayed on or entered the market, and a lot of lives would have been saved. From oil spills to car defects to cell phones, the media these days is filled with failures of quality control, even among high profile, upscale companies with reputations to maintain. In contrast, I'm glad to see PCGS proactively hunting down potential problems with a vengeance, taking responsibility even when blame lies elsewhere, for faults of quality control that I would never have even noticed were it not for their openly calling them out.