[POLL] The Jefferson Nickel Thread - Steps and No Steps

Griv

Is it most people's opinion that these Jefferson Nickels are growing in popularity more so than ever before?


My prettiest graded WWII Jefferson Nickel. Any grade guesses?

Casabrown

I certainly hope so.

leothelyon

Here's my best answer for the time being; the discovery/hunt/search for a high quality nickel for most dates from 1938 to the 1970-S is a long one. And that goes for each and every date. What makes this series so difficult to collect is the wide spectrum of qualities each coin can possess. In other words, a coin can go from a "wowser" to an average coin every time a higher quality coin comes along and that can occur quite often as a collection is built. And that can get very frustrating especially after paying hundreds for a coin that leaves you scratching your head weeks later why it was bought in the first place.
I could post 3 1947-D nickels showing the different levels of strikes from weak to EDS but the point is, try imagining a 1947-P with an EDS strike similar to the coin below. There is one to my knowledge and hopefully, I'll get a picture of it soon and post it here.




For those who have "The Jefferson Nickel Analyst" by Bern Nagengast, it's there where it's stated that strike problems began in 1946.


Leo


And Griv, very nice coin!

Griv

Thanks, Leo. I think I'd probably trade all my collection for half of yours so thanks for the compliment. When I collected as a kid I stuck with the dimes, quarters and halves. My brother was into nickels. Now I like the nickels and not so much the others (not to say they aren't totally cool for other people) unless toned. Like these.

scottgardener

Jefferson nickels can do some pretty dramatic toning. I've got two--one that's turned kind of bluish and another a more dramatic mix of lavender and yellow. Both are proofs from the early 1960s, and both look pretty free of scrapes and scratches. I plan to get them graded soon. They might not be worth nearly as much as some of my other coins, but they look really pretty, and I have a hunch that nicely toned Jefferson and Buffalo nickels are sleepers that will some day balloon in demand.

sinin1

griv - very nice 43-D my grade guess MS67FS or genuine code 91

scottgardener - buffalo nickels have always been in demand and most major dealers carry them - probably because of high demand and high value
the 37-D 3 legger is commonly seen in dealer inventory

I do not know any that carry large inventory of Jeffersons


when Heritage has promoting the Omaha Bank Hoard, they had pages of Jefferson nickels in their autions/fixed price listings
- now the pickings are much slimmer there

leothelyon

<< <i>I like the pictures in your set Casabrown. Thanks for posting them. >>



Yes, some nice photography and that's a nice 1939 with the Reverse of 1940 steps in his set! But the label says the coin is an extremely rare example with the Reverse of 1938 in full steps and it's not. I wonder if he's aware of this huge inaccuracy with his collection? It would be similar to having a 1961 mislabeled as the rare 1961-D in full steps.

Does PCGS offer full refunds on typo errors with their labels?


Leo

Casabrown

But the label says the coin is an extremely rare example with the Reverse of 1938 in full steps and it's not. I wonder if he's aware of this huge inaccuracy with his collection?

Leo

I am not sure what you a re reading because the labels make no statement about the rarity of any of the coins.

Casabrown

leothelyon

<< <i>But the label says the coin is an extremely rare example with the Reverse of 1938 in full steps and it's not. I wonder if he's aware of this huge inaccuracy with his collection?

Leo

I am not sure what you a re reading because the labels make no statement about the rarity of any of the coins.

Casabrown >>




I believe the 1939 R38 has a rarity of 1 in 1000 FS coin while the 1939 R40 is only a 1 in 5 FS coin, info that can be found in the Analyst by Nagengast. Your coin is clearly a R40 and the label states it's a R38. When looking over your registry set I was initially impressed that you had a PCGS MS67FS example of this date. But upon closer examination, the coin is a R40, a very common date in FS. I hope this helps.


Leo

Griv

My main Jefferson collection in MS is The Jeux Sans Frontières Jefferson Collection - FS MV UNC which is currently #6. Sure I could pick up some of those MS68s (3rd mortgages are common these days) that are being sold from the Holy Jefferson Nickel Grail on the market, but I can't. First because they aren't actually giving 3rd mortgages and secondly, as much as I love the Jeffersons I think #6 suits me better than bankruptcy. I could be wrong. None of them are rainbow toned are they???

scottgardener

Right about buffalo nickels; I do see a good stock of them with the dealers--but mostly raws, going for fairly cheap. If my grading skills were better, I might be tempted to try cherry-picking. However, the ones I saw recently at the brick-and-mortar did not have the afore-mentioned toning or luster.

But, Jefferson nickels are a sleeper. I think people will start noticing them more, now that the new nickels are different. There seems to be a psychological shift that happens when a coin design is discontinued--pre-1964 Washington quarters seem to be doing well, now that it's clear that their design on modern quarters isn't coming back. Lincoln Memorial cents are starting to gain in interest, too.

BigDowgie

Let me provide a little history around the 1939 Rev38s.

Let me take you back to the early days of grading Jefferson Nickels. I’ve been able to build a timeline of numerous PCGS Population Reports back to July 1998, right about the time the ‘full step’ designation began. Let's just focus on MS67FS pops. From July 1998 through July 2002, PCGS graded 16 1939’s (#84003) as MS67FS. Then between July 2002 and July 2003, PCGS began attributing coins as having Rev38 and Rev40 steps. All of the 16 previously graded coins remained with the PCGS #84003, which became the Rev38 attributed coins. This is where everything went wrong! Given the fact that PCGS would not grade 1938's then because of the wavy steps tells me all of these coins are rev40's.

With this information and the fact that I have never seen a true MS67FS Rev38 coin properly designated, I'm 100% certain all these 14 MS67FS coins are truly Rev40’s. The collectors who own these coins should turn them back in for re-attribution, but we know they have not. We did see a couple of collectors do the right thing. We started with 16 back in July 2002 and as of June 2007 (which is a heck of a long time!) are down to the current population of 14. I can list three Top Jefferson Sets that have an incorrect 1939 Rev38 (#84003) coin in their respective sets. Think about it, NO new 1939 MS67FS Rev38 coins since 2002!

PCGS needs to help push those collectors to get the Pops correct! I would wage there are no MS67FS Rev38's out there, which supports Naggengast's estimates the 1939 MS FS Rev38 coins are truely a rarity.

Just my thoughts

BigDowgie

Griv,

Back to the original question, grade.....MS66 with "nice toner" designation! 1943-D's are too common and come really, really nice.

sinin1

I vote 67FS on your 43-D

leothelyon

<< <i>I vote 67FS on your 43-D >>



You can say that again!


Leo

BigDowgie

Griv,

Post the grade!!!!!

erwindoc

How difficult do you other collectors think it would be to put together a nice set of MS66 no-step nickels? I have an album set that probably goes MS63-65 for the earlier dates and higher as coins are newer and have been debating another set. What would the price range be assuming they were already graded by a reputable TPG such as our host or the guys ATS.

clackamas

There are quite a few years that are very hard/expensive in MS66. I sold an MS66 69-s a few years ago for $1K. The coin is untouchable (there are no FS jeffs for that date) in full step. Another problem is that if you don't want to get FS coins, unless you make your own, some are going to be realllly hard to find. People just don't send them in unless they have full steps. Take 71-D as an example, its a POP 47/0 in MS66 yet a POP 164/12 in 66 FS. If you hunt your own coins it won't be too hard finding an MS66 but to buy one is going to be hard.

Griv

Dang, sorry, I forgot.

Griv

<< <i>Let me provide a little history around the 1939 Rev38s.

Let me take you back to the early days of grading Jefferson Nickels. I’ve been able to build a timeline of numerous PCGS Population Reports back to July 1998, right about the time the ‘full step’ designation began. Let's just focus on MS67FS pops. From July 1998 through July 2002, PCGS graded 16 1939’s (#84003) as MS67FS. Then between July 2002 and July 2003, PCGS began attributing coins as having Rev38 and Rev40 steps. All of the 16 previously graded coins remained with the PCGS #84003, which became the Rev38 attributed coins. This is where everything went wrong! Given the fact that PCGS would not grade 1938's then because of the wavy steps tells me all of these coins are rev40's.

With this information and the fact that I have never seen a true MS67FS Rev38 coin properly designated, I'm 100% certain all these 14 MS67FS coins are truly Rev40’s. The collectors who own these coins should turn them back in for re-attribution, but we know they have not. We did see a couple of collectors do the right thing. We started with 16 back in July 2002 and as of June 2007 (which is a heck of a long time!) are down to the current population of 14. I can list three Top Jefferson Sets that have an incorrect 1939 Rev38 (#84003) coin in their respective sets. Think about it, NO new 1939 MS67FS Rev38 coins since 2002!

PCGS needs to help push those collectors to get the Pops correct! I would wage there are no MS67FS Rev38's out there, which supports Naggengast's estimates the 1939 MS FS Rev38 coins are truely a rarity.

Just my thoughts >>


I could use a 39 rev 38 MS67FS. I'll trade my first born. Okay, I'll throw in my second born too.

clackamas

Griv, I would send that in on a regular regrade, you could get the plus upgrade on that 43-D. My 66FS 45-S upgraded to a 66+FS, I still think it should 67.

BigDowgie

"I could use a 39 rev 38 MS67FS. I'll trade my first born. Okay, I'll throw in my second born too."


I'll put the challenge out to the Crew to post a picture or just let us know if you own a "real" 1939 Rev38 MS67FS!

Bring'em on if you get'em!

Griv

<< <i>Griv, I would send that in on a regular regrade, you could get the plus upgrade on that 43-D. My 66FS 45-S upgraded to a 66+FS, I still think it should 67. >>



I'm still on the fence on the +. Is there any possibily of being downgraded?

BigDowgie

Griv,

I don't think PCGS would downgrade. But what do I know, from the pictures I thought it was an MS66 Full Toner!

scottgardener

I've held off on sending in my two proof toned Jeffersons, because my submission was Economy rather than Regular. These two coins could end up landing a "+" grade at a level where the + would matter--maybe PF67+. (A bit optimistic, as grading proof Jeffersons is way out of my territory--but I'm factoring for the possibility.) They'll probably go out with the batch of eight when I renew my Collector's Club membership at the Platinum level at the end of the year. They probably won't get CAM or DCAM designations--they're toned, not cameoed. But, even if I'm way off and they're PF64s, they'll still have nice eye appeal.

sinin1

I was in Vegas the last couple of days so made it to the PCGS Vegas event

I renewed my club membership at platinum level and made my first regrade submission of part of my war set

8 coins all 66FS, 67FS, or 67 - some of the FS coins probably should not be with the designation

it will be interesting to see if I get any plusses or upgrades or ??downgrade guarantees??
I am assuming the designation is covered by their guarantee as those FS designations cost alot on many issues in the series

pontiacinf

I have been the total Jefferson collector for years and years. I have so much stuff put aside
it scares me. I did not need a real reason to collect em, but after veiwing Frank Corsos sets
along with the gems Leo, Type2, Griv and a select few others display, how could ya not collect em.

Carl Wholforth was also a very big help along the way, so shout out to him

Griv

<< <i>I have been the total Jefferson collector for years and years. I have so much stuff put aside
it scares me. I did not need a real reason to collect em, but after veiwing Frank Corsos sets
along with the gems Leo, Type2, Griv and a select few others display, how could ya not collect em.

Carl Wholforth was also a very big help along the way, so shout out to him >>



Aaaah, speaking of that "scary stuff put away", I'm free weekends and weekdays to help you clean it out for you.

pontiacinf

<< <i>

<< <i>I have been the total Jefferson collector for years and years. I have so much stuff put aside
it scares me. I did not need a real reason to collect em, but after veiwing Frank Corsos sets
along with the gems Leo, Type2, Griv and a select few others display, how could ya not collect em.

Carl Wholforth was also a very big help along the way, so shout out to him >>



Aaaah, speaking of that "scary stuff put away", I'm free weekends and weekdays to help you clean it out for you. >>



I actually did a quick one over of stuff in closets, cups, rolls-lists of SDB stuff, went thru the pcgs boxes, ngc boxes~

I had no idea how much I was hoarding, really sometimes i do things for fun but just do not pay attention. I stopped a few
years back just buying for fun and everything just got stored.

I need to find Al, and I need to pop some of this out there- oh well no rush- but Al please contact me
OK found it- KEETS or AL lets talk-long time<edited for that

pontiacinf

<< <i>

<< <i>I have been the total Jefferson collector for years and years. I have so much stuff put aside
it scares me. I did not need a real reason to collect em, but after veiwing Frank Corsos sets
along with the gems Leo, Type2, Griv and a select few others display, how could ya not collect em.

Carl Wholforth was also a very big help along the way, so shout out to him >>



Aaaah, speaking of that "scary stuff put away", I'm free weekends and weekdays to help you clean it out for you. >>



oh Griv your always welcome to cruise whatever. Im bored and its coming up on winter so everything will be dug out

will be a fun few weeks