Is this 1964 Phil Niekro card a forgery??

jswieton

A few months ago I participated in a private signing for Phil Niekro that was set up by a SCN member. There had been problems with the signing since day one. I finally got my card back after about a 2 month wait. The card that I received back is definitely not the same card that was sent in. At first I was just happy to get a rc back signed. After closer inspection I have concerns that the card I was sent might actually be a counterfeit. Something about the card just seems a little off to me. I am far from an expert when it comes to 1964 Topps. I am pretty sure the signature is authentic but I was wondering if I could get some opinions on whether or not the card is legit. If anyone could give me their opinion I would really appreciate it.

jswieton

I just got this reply back from the guy who set up the signing. I love how he acts like it is my fault the signing got screwed up. How does he not know what I paid for the autograph since he was the one setting it up. I am very confused.

"How much did you pay for the card and the autograph....im so over this fu%#ing thing. Just give me the total and Ill give you your money so you arent out a dime and you have what is apparently a counterfit niekro rc signed."

brendanb438

Sounds like an admission of guilt. Makes yeah wonder if the auto is even legit.

hhmag70

I guess he needs to know what you paid for the card itself since he has no way of knowing that.

al032184

Tell him to take his long-winded 'sincere' apology and shove it.

MooseDog

There is no conceivable reason why anyone would forge a Phil Niekro autograph. Likely one of the most common HOF signatures on the planet.

VitoCo1972

He signs for like $15 TTM too

jswieton

<< <i>There is no conceivable reason why anyone would forge a Phil Niekro autograph. Likely one of the most common HOF signatures on the planet. >>



I am pretty sure the autograph is authentic, my concerns are the card is bad. He sent me a different card then what I sent in.

VitoCo1972

What makes you think the card is bad? the stock? Can't imagine anyone counterfeiting a card that badly off center. Here's mine from TTM if it helps.

jswieton

The stock and finish of the card doesn't feel right. The card is also slightly larger than other 64's I have. I could be completely off base and just being paranoid. However, it is definitely not the same card I sent him.

stevek

Sometimes tough to tell from an internet pic, I'd have to have it in hand to be 100% sure...but the wear looks right along with the very slight chipping...it's not easy to fake that and make it look right. Tough to tell from a scan...if it's a fake it's an excellent fake that's for sure.

I don't think it's a fake based on that, and some other things as well such as whenever a plate is made from a card, often some very fine details on the pic tend to fill in a bit, and I don't see that on your card.

Pigs

I think the card is legit judging by the scans you have. Speaking of scans I would suggest scanning every card you send out to be autographed, I even do it before a submission to PSA. Then "you" would know it was switched.

jswieton

I just went back though the message board posts for the Niekro signing. After reading the blog I do not feel that he intentionally sent me a different card. I think it is a case where he bit off more than he could chew when setting up the signing. I actually feel for the guy a little bit and told him not to worry about refunding me my $$.

I have learned one thing over the past few months; many autograph collectors, that are not into collecting cards, have no understanding of the sensitivity in the value of a cards condition. I have received cards back on numerous occasions where the person has clearly not understood that a dinged corner or a small crease can extremely decrease the value of a card. Either that, or they just have no or little consideration of other peoples items. I will just chalk this one up as a learning experience.

VitoCo1972

<< <i>
I have learned one thing over the past few months; many autograph collectors, that are not into collecting cards, have no understanding of the sensitivity in the value of a cards condition. I have received cards back on numerous occasions where the person has clearly not understood that a dinged corner or a small crease can extremely decrease the value of a card. Either that, or they just have no or little consideration of other peoples items. I will just chalk this one up as a learning experience. >>



annoying - if you are a card collector - but true.

Pigs

I have learned one thing over the past few months; many autograph collectors, that are not into collecting cards, have no understanding of the sensitivity in the value of a cards condition. I have received cards back on numerous occasions where the person has clearly not understood that a dinged corner or a small crease can extremely decrease the value of a card. Either that, or they just have no or little consideration of other peoples items. I will just chalk this one up as a learning experience. >>




Especially fun to cringe when a HOFer grabs your card, whips it around, slides across the table signs it and slides it back to you and your thinking the whole time, "OMG he's going to bend it in half".

jswieton

<< <i>Q]


Especially fun to cringe when a HOFer grabs your card, whips it around, slides across the table signs it and slides it back to you and your thinking the whole time, "OMG he's going to bend it in half". >>



This is so true, it happens almost everytime they sign. The worst is when they grab the card/item right where they just signed and you get a nice finger print with their autograph.

yankeeno7

John
I COMPLETELY feel your pain! This past winter I had a guy offering to take cards to the fantasy camps. He posted his prices, etc...I sent him a few cards. All but ONE of the cards was my original that I had sent to him. Im choosy about the cards I have signed...they were nm/mt and he sent me back signed G/VG. At first, I asked him politely via PM thinking that he mistakenly switched my cards. His response was similar to yours...like it was my fault and he did me a big favor etc etc. I posted on the member references area and I couldnt believe the people that were sticking up for him while he completely lied. I even commented how it seems so many autograph collectors collect differently than card/auto collectors and I got bashed for saying THAT! The whole thing blew up into a mini soap opera. If you want some shocking BS to read, go to Member References and read "Graph4ever-use caution".

I was so happy when another person finally jumped in and had the SAME complaint. He posted PMs with this douche and he admitted that he did not keep attention to who card was whose. So if 8 people sent in a 78 Palmer, they all probably got back a different one. Most of the douchebags shut up at that point and the ones that didnt thought there was nothing wrong with what he sent me back and I should be happy to have the auto. WTF!!??

waverlee

Definitely gonna have to call the FBI, definitely gotta call them on Friday. Yes Friday call the FBI, make sure you ask for Detective Richard Fitzwell and tell him there is a forgery ring making Phil Niekro rookies

jswieton

<< <i>Definitely gonna have to call the FBI, definitely gotta call them on Friday. Yes Friday call the FBI, make sure you ask for Detective Richard Fitzwell and tell him there is a forgery ring making Phil Niekro rookies >>



I really don't think this is that asinine of a question. I have seen plenty of counterfeit cards of hof'ers that are completely worthless now. I have always been under the impression that the message board was here to ask questions about the hobby, I must have been mistaken. I am sorry for taking your time, get a life.

otwcards

<< <i>

<< <i>Definitely gonna have to call the FBI, definitely gotta call them on Friday. Yes Friday call the FBI, make sure you ask for Detective Richard Fitzwell and tell him there is a forgery ring making Phil Niekro rookies >>



I really don't think this is that asinine of a question. I have seen plenty of counterfeit cards of hof'ers that are completely worthless now. I have always been under the impression that the message board was here to ask questions about the hobby, I must have been mistaken. I am sorry for taking your time, get a life. >>



Worry not, waverlee is an imposter posting with the intention to rile the rank and file.

Ironmanfan

Happy 73rd Birthday Phil !

No April Fools joke here!

IMF

BearDownChicagoBears

I compared that to my TTM I got from Niekro years ago. It looks just like it. Not a stamp or autopen but very similar. If that is a forgery, that person is one of the best out there at making a forgery.

jswieton

I got my card authenticated by PSA last year and everything turned out fine. For some reason I thought the card looked funny IP but thankfully I was wrong.