from Bill Fivaz book, this a fake?

konsole

I found a gold 1853 $1 that I am pretty sure is counterfeit but I would like to get some opinions before I start submission.





If you have the book the counterfeit in question is on pg. 19

These are the indications of the counterfeit...

-depressions in front of face on obverse
-small spikes around rim on obverse
-depression to the right of "1"
-rasied blemish under "N" of UNITED
-raised blemish to the top left of "O" in DOLLAR
-weak "E" in UNITED
-spike running up from the rim at 6:00 on the reverse
-irregular reeding on the edge


out of those I have located the following on the coin I have...

-rasied blemish under "N" of UNITED
-raised blemish to the top left of "O" in DOLLAR
-weak "E" in UNITED
-spike running up from the rim at 6:00 on the reverse
-irregular reeding on the edge

So its seems like the reverse indications are pointing to counterfeit but the obverse is not.
I also noticed that the reeding actually extends beyond the edge of the coin faces in some areas and can be sees if just looking at the coin straight on. Color seems ok nothing unusual.

So I could see about 1/2 of the items but the other half were either not there or too hard to see. The coin has the right weight of 1.67 grams and seemingly the proper diameter since it fits snug into an airtite made for it.
What do you guys think about this? Is there still a chance that the coin is genuine?

ambro51

Oh Goodness. totally without question as phony as they come.


heres REAL

konsole

other then the obvious difference in quality, and seemingly grade, is there anything else that stands out to you?

RWB

Turn the question around....What makes you think it is a real gold dollar?

LanLord

<< <i>other then the obvious difference in quality, and seemingly grade, is there anything else that stands out to you? >>

Someone stole all your dentils

JRocco

<< <i>

<< <i>other then the obvious difference in quality, and seemingly grade, is there anything else that stands out to you? >>

Someone stole all your dentils >>



Great response as the dentils should be one of the first details looked at, and more
often than not...the only detail you need to look at.

coinguy1

<< <i>other then the obvious difference in quality, and seemingly grade, is there anything else that stands out to you? >>

The coin doesn't show any wear, but is too weak/lacking in detail to be uncirculated and genuine. That is one factor which indicates it is counterfeit. Also, look at the dentils around the border on each side - they don't match that which is seen on genuine examples. Edited to add - I see that part of the above has already been covered.

ambro51

One of the main things I see now that indicates a counterfeit gold dollar is that...well, the girl looks dead.

Compare the portrait on the OP coin with the real one I posted....

There is a misconception among some collectors unfamilar with the series that the small gold dollar is "crude". Well, nothing can be further from the truth. Aside from defects and a rustic look that is common among charlotte and dahlonega coins (a hallmark of THAT issue BTW), the details on these coins are astounding. Sharp crisp lettering, smooth fields, well formed dentils, luster and appearance....all are usually top notch.

One "defect" you will see on many authentic gold dollars are faint clashmarks. On the coin I posted, look to the left of the 1, and then going down between the D and O of dollar. That is the clashmark of the liberty bust. I cant give an exact ratio, but Id say roughly half to three quarters of all gold dollars show clashmarks. They are a good thing and do not detract from value (though some advanced collectors will go out of their way to find specimens that do NOT show the clashmarks).

Counterfeits were made by the thousands in europe, the middle east, lebanon, asia.....and while the Fivaz book is a good START, one cannot depend on it to show ALL the various forms that these fakes are known by. While the US Mints were able to make these small coins with extraordinary detail and precision....the slipshod fakes will never approach their quality in all its aspects.

The only good thing here is that usually you DO have real gold, and some intrinsic value as such.

konsole

ya I only have about 5 or 6 gold dollars and i'd say 2 or 3 of them have significant clash marks on the reverse.

johnny9434

fake, no like the looks of that one slick