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In a roll of otherwise AU/BU '64 Kennedys

WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Precious Metals
As a buyer, how much would this bother you...

A) Very much
B) A little
C) Not at all

image

I understand it wasn't uncommon to have holed coins, often with a piece of string or chain strung through them, so they could be used to fool payphones, coin-op machines, and even slot machines.

We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
--Severian the Lame

Comments

  • gsa1fangsa1fan Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭
    A little, most that I've had were 1964's too.
    Avid collector of GSA's.
  • keepdachangekeepdachange Posts: 1,374
    B) a little I would want to know ahead of time before I purchased them
    "If you hit a midget on the head with a stick, he turns into 40 gold coins." - Patty Oswalt
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,127 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would NEVER knowingly sell a holed coin in a bag of junk silver. Ain't right.
    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,795 ✭✭✭✭✭
    tell him to send you a merc dime to make up for the lost silver.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • terribleredmonsterterribleredmonster Posts: 456 ✭
    I'd expect to be able to swap that one out. If you got it from your B&M guy, your long standing business with him should make it a no issues transaction.
    "YOU SUCK!" Awarded by nankraut/renomedphys 6/13/13 - MadMarty dissents
  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It would bother me a little. I would be very careful dealing with this person again.
  • secondrepublicsecondrepublic Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭
    If it was advertised as AU/BU it would be a concern. There should be a note that one of the coins has a hole. And maybe knock a dollar off the sale price.
    "Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,007 ✭✭✭✭✭
    By my measurement, the hole is about 1/8 the diameter of the coin, meaning that it is light by slightly more than 1.5%.

    With silver around 14 x face, that would amount to about 11 cents worth of silver missing on a $7.00 coin. Wouldn't any heavily worn half dollar be light by that amount?

    (Edited to correct numbers.)

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • RGJohnRGJohn Posts: 402
    Well it is certainly disappointing. And it does not meet the standard. So you are entitled to feel that you received less than what you bargained for. Nobody here would thank you if you chose to remain silent about this and sell it off, hidden in a roll, to one of us. So you got stuck. No question about that.
    ----
    Did the seller know about this? I've sometimes bought rolls of 64s without making too much of a fuss about them, even re-selling without carefully examing them. Just short of flash through them to confirm the date. Used to be one could even avoid that by examining the edge but it seems like that isn't reliable anymore as so many now have edge tarnish.
    ---
    I guess it boils down to how it was acquired for me. If I'd bought it from somebody here or a dealer, I'd insist on a replacement. If I'd bought the roll from somebody at work who'd gotten it from their late grandfather who pack-ratted every 64J FK he ever saw, I'd absorb it and say nothing except "Got any more at home?". Then I'd examine them more carefully before I bought and perhaaps adjust the old price down a skosh.
    Many, many perfect transactions with other members. Ask please.
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting responses. The last roll of Kennedys I bought had a single Frankie in it. Then I remembered I got this holed coin weeks and weeks ago in a bunch of 90% that I bought. I try to keep consistent and swapped it out, but then started thinking about what it would mean down the line if I ever decide to sell stuff.

    At the time the holed coin irked me. But as overdate calculated, it's a really small hole. Much smaller than a pencil eraser in diameter. Literally a few cents of silver. And it's not like 64 Kennedys have any numismatic value. But it's hard for a dyed in the wool coin collector to see a hole and not think "Whoa!", even if that's not a rational response in this case.

    I'll weigh it later to see what the difference is both between it an another AU Kennedy and the slickest 90% half I can find. Should be interesting.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If that coin turned out to be a trial 40% piece or a 1964 SMS Kennedy, I'd be really mad. Otherwise, I'd be hesitant to buy from the guy again, just out of principal.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • bstat1020bstat1020 Posts: 2,151 ✭✭
    A little bit, but not enough to never to buy from him again.

    Just nicely tell him about it and tell him not to worry about it. I think that approach would strengthen your position as a good customer and get you further in the long run.

    JMHO,

    Bstat
    Madelyn's Birth Year Registry Set, Sophia's Birth Year Registry Set, My 10 Best Coins
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, here's an interesting experiment with interesting results.

    According to Redbook, a 1964 half should weigh 12.5 grams.

    I tested the whole roll of AU/BU '64 kennedys on my Digiweigh scale, which I believe to be pretty accurate--I double-checked several coins and they came up the same every time. The results:

    weight in grams /number of coins
    12.2 = 2
    12.3 = 2
    12.4 = 3 (including our holed coin)
    12.5 = 5
    12.6 = 7
    12.7 = 0
    12.8 = 1

    Note that even with the hole, the holed coin was well within the range of "normal" coins.

    Next I went through a roll of ave G-VF circulated walkers, frankies, and one lone Barber.

    weight in grams /number of coins
    11.6 = 2
    12.2 = 4
    12.3 = 6
    12.4 = 3
    12.5 = 4
    12.6 = 0
    12.7 = 1
    12.8 = 0

    The majority of the coins were in the 12.2-12.3 range. But one dateless walker and the 1907-O barber came in at 11.6!

    This sample is hardly big enough to bet your life on. But it seems pretty logical. Assuming the walkers and frankies (and barber) were all roughly the same weight as the kennedys when they began their journey, average circulation appears to knock off .2 or .3 grams. But there are plenty of "atypical" coins out there. How about that massive 12.8 Kennedy?! image

    Given this info, have your thoughts about the holed Kennedy changed?

    The kennedy population after weighing
    image

    One of the "lightest" kennedys
    image

    Our holed coin
    image

    The monster 12.8 gram kenndy
    image

    11.6 gram barber
    image

    11.6 gram walker
    image

    Entire spread of coins, from lightest to heaviest
    image

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • gsa1fangsa1fan Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭
    Good project Weiss! The one's I had were in 90% junk lots. If bought as a AU/BU roll I'd gotten upset.

    As your comparison shows little to get worked up about.

    How do 5 dimes compare to half dollar?
    Avid collector of GSA's.
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    any holed silver is a waste. your just getting short changed image jmo
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    JFK musta had on extra Brylocream on that 12.8erimage

    Me, I'm a Dapper Dan man................MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
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