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Today's Football - who makes the HOF?
PowderedH2O
Posts: 2,443 ✭✭
in Sports Talk
I've been looking at cards of more modern players lately and I've been wondering... amongst the current players, which are most likely to make the HOF and are there any guys that we might feel are locks that might slip for awhile. For example, Cris Carter is not in. I thought he was a shoo-in. I still think he'll make it, but who knows?
So, I see Brady, Manning, and Favre as sure things in at QB. I think Brees is really close. LT is a lock at Running back, but I'm not sure about anyone else. Edgerrin James? Is he still active? Did he do enough? Fred Taylor? Certainly Jamal Lewis has put up big numbers, but his off the field stuff might hurt him. Plus, he might not be there yet anyway. Too soon on Peterson.
The receivers are my biggest question. Randy Moss and Terrell Owens both have HOF worthy numbers, but both have ticked off a LOT of people. Do they have to wait awhile to get in, like Cris Carter? Are Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt in? Maybe Hines Ward? I never think of Ward as a HOFer, but when you look at his numbers they are starting to approach the elite levels, plus he is known as a great team player and a good guy on a 2-time Super Bowl champ.
Tony Gonzalez seems to be a tight end lock. I can't imagine he doesn't get in on the first try.
On defense... Jason Taylor? Ray Lewis seems fairly likely on the first ballot unless his off the field stuff holds him back. Has Dwight Freeney done enough? What about Ed Reed? Darren Sharper? Champ Bailey? Charles Woodson? Brian Dawkins? A lot of really good defensive backs in this era.
I'm sure I am missing someone... Anyone got an opinion?
So, I see Brady, Manning, and Favre as sure things in at QB. I think Brees is really close. LT is a lock at Running back, but I'm not sure about anyone else. Edgerrin James? Is he still active? Did he do enough? Fred Taylor? Certainly Jamal Lewis has put up big numbers, but his off the field stuff might hurt him. Plus, he might not be there yet anyway. Too soon on Peterson.
The receivers are my biggest question. Randy Moss and Terrell Owens both have HOF worthy numbers, but both have ticked off a LOT of people. Do they have to wait awhile to get in, like Cris Carter? Are Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt in? Maybe Hines Ward? I never think of Ward as a HOFer, but when you look at his numbers they are starting to approach the elite levels, plus he is known as a great team player and a good guy on a 2-time Super Bowl champ.
Tony Gonzalez seems to be a tight end lock. I can't imagine he doesn't get in on the first try.
On defense... Jason Taylor? Ray Lewis seems fairly likely on the first ballot unless his off the field stuff holds him back. Has Dwight Freeney done enough? What about Ed Reed? Darren Sharper? Champ Bailey? Charles Woodson? Brian Dawkins? A lot of really good defensive backs in this era.
I'm sure I am missing someone... Anyone got an opinion?
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The Football HOF doesn't care about character....or more so perhaps, are just more honest about not caring. Irvin raised a little eyebrow....but that is about it.
Jason Taylor...should, maybe borderline, Ed Reed....complete lock.
Edgerrin James, Fred Taylor...not a chance.
Champ who?
Gonzo will not only make the HOF...I would be surprized if he didn't wind up in a dozen other HOF's. Being a minority, popular player, charitable person, saved a person's life, et al. If you are board member of any HOF...he is the good safe political correct pick, who likely has earned whatever honor you are voting on.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
I think James is good enough.
Obviously Owens and Moss. Tomlinson, Ray Lewis, Favre, Warner, Walter Jones, Manning, Brady, Adrian Peterson(But, he better get his act together in regards to holding on to the ball) has all the tools to be one of the best ever. Demarcus Ware. Freeney- if he can stay healthy. Troy Palamalu. McNabb.
Manning
Brady
Tomlinson
Lewis
Moss
Owens
Bruce
Jones
Faneca
Pace
Reed
I like Dawkins, but dont think he's a HOFer.
Bailey
Woodson?
Saturday? He's good.
John
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
Not sure that Jamal Lewis deserves to get in, I would actually put Fred Taylor in before Lewis and think Taylor has no shot.
I believe Morten and Gary Anderson deserve to be in, but that isn't likely.
Adrian Peterson has a long way to go, he's not even worth discussion until 5 more years imo.
Hall passes: Lead pipe locks and on-the-fringe players for Canton
Pat Kirwan By Pat Kirwan | NFL.com
Senior Analyst
The month of June is traditionally the slowest for the NFL, which gives guys like me a chance to speculate -- on, say, things like future Hall of Famers.
The careers of quarterback Kurt Warner and left tackle Walter Jones came to an end this offseason, and I believe their bodies of work will get them into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Then again, I also believe tight end Shannon Sharpe and wide receiver Cris Carter should be in by now. The longer things linger for these two, the more I wonder what it will take for them to get in.
During my Sirius Radio show on Memorial Day, I was challenged with the question: Which active players have already done enough to punch their tickets for Canton? From that fundamental question came these questions: Which players are close to getting into the Hall? Which players have a chance? Which players will just miss out? And, for which players who seem on track is it simply too early to determine?
I asked front office executives, talked with two NFL historians who I respect, took emails from passionate fans, and looked at the current production of 37 present-day players who fall into one of these categories.
You're going to disagree with some of my views and see eye-to-eye with me on others, but here's the best that I can categorize these players.
Canton bound
1. Brett Favre, QB, Vikings: No argument here whatsoever. He's the all-time leader in passing yards (69,329) and touchdowns (497) and has a Super Bowl ring, with the very real possibility of adding another should he come back.
2. Peyton Manning, QB, Colts: Manning has already thrown for 50,128 yards (fourth all-time behind Favre, Dan Marino and John Elway) and 366 touchdowns (third all-time), is the only four-time league MVP, and has his Super Bowl ring. If the 33-year-old Manning was to play six more years at this pace, he'll finish with close to 76,000 yards and 550 touchdowns.
3. Tom Brady, QB, Patriots: It's not about stats for Brady, although a single-season record of 50 touchdown passes in 2007 was quite impressive. The only number that matters: Three. As in three Super Bowl championships (twice MVP) says it all.
4. Ray Lewis, ILB, Ravens: In 14 seasons, Lewis has been the epitome of hard-hitting defense in the NFL. He has been tackling players longer than the league has kept stats for them (since 2001). Throw in his 36.5 sacks, 28 interceptions, 12 forced fumbles, and the fact that he was the general of the 2000 Ravens' defense that led the franchise to its only Super Bowl championship, and he's a lock for the Hall.
5. Tony Gonzalez, TE, Falcons: Gonzalez is partly responsible for revolutionizing the position as we know it. He's the career leader among tight ends with 999 receptions (seventh overall) and 82 touchdowns.
6. LaDainian Tomlinson, RB, Jets: Only recently has L.T. showed signs of decline. In nine seasons as a Charger, he had 12,490 rushing yards (eighth all-time) with 138 rushing touchdowns (second all-time). On top of that, he has 530 receptions for 3,955 yards and 15 touchdowns. And he only had one of the greatest seasons ever in 2006 when he was named league MVP after scoring 31 total touchdowns and amassing 2,323 yards of offense.
7. Ed Reed, FS, Ravens: A ball hawk if there ever was one, in eight seasons Reed has 46 interceptions, 70 passes defended, nine forced fumbles, and five sacks. He's also scored six touchdowns in his career.
Close, but not confirmed
1. Randy Moss, WR, Patriots: In 12 seasons, Moss has 926 receptions at 15.6 yards per catch with 148 touchdown catches, second only to Jerry Rice (197). Since joining the Patriots in 2007 (when he caught a single-season record 23 touchdowns), Moss has been on fire and, with at least one more year with Brady (he becomes a free agent after next season), he projects to increase those numbers substantially in 2010.
2. Kevin Mawae, C: His career may be over since no teams have apparently contacted him this offseason, but when it comes to Hall credentials there's little to argue about a guy with 16 seasons, 238 starts and eight Pro Bowls.
3. Ben Roethlisberger, QB, Steelers: Pittsburgh fans say he's already a lock because of the two Super Bowl wins. That may be true, but his off-field issues have clouded things for now.
4. Terrell Owens, WR: His career, like Mawae's, could be over, but I hope not because T.O. can still play. Owens has 1,006 receptions at 14.9 yards per catch and 144 touchdowns. Hey, Carter finished with 1,101 receptions and 130 touchdowns, and he's still waiting.
5. Drew Brees, QB, Saints: Brees just picked up his first Super Bowl and has thrown for more than 30,000 yards in nine seasons and has 202 touchdowns to just 110 interceptions. If he plays five more seasons at this pace, he will walk away with close to 50,000 yards and 315 TD passes and maybe another SB ring. That right there would likely get him in.
6. Antonio Gates, TE, Chargers: He's been regarded as the best at his position for most of his career. In seven seasons, the former college basketball player has 479 receptions and 59 touchdowns, which puts him ahead of Gonzalez's pace for scores, averaging just over eight TDs a season.
7. Charles Woodson, CB, Packers: In 12 seasons, the six-time Pro Bowler has 45 interceptions (including a career-high nine last season in which he was named Defensive Player of the Year), 84 passes defended, 11.5 sacks, and 17 forced fumbles.
8. Darren Sharper, FS, Saints: Surprised by Sharper being this high up in the rankings? Well, in 13 seasons, Sharper has 63 interceptions, 11 touchdowns, 7.5 sacks, eight forced fumbles and, of course, a Super Bowl ring last year.
9. Troy Polamalu, SS, Steelers: This guy can flat-out do it all on defense. He is a special talent. In seven seasons, Polamalu has 20 interceptions, seven forced fumbles and one touchdown. In the last four years, though, he has only had a 16-game season once.
10. Alan Faneca, G, Cardinals: Faneca has long been considered an elite guard. He's played in nine Pro Bowls during his 12-year career, which includes eight straight seasons with 16 starts.
At this pace, they have a shot
1. Andre Johnson, WR, Texans: In seven seasons, Johnson has 587 receptions for 7,948 yards and 42 touchdowns. To go along with that production, he's a high-character guy. Johnson can boast to being the only player besides Rice to lead the NFL in receiving back-to-back seasons since the merger. Johnson is on pace for more than 1,000 receptions, but he has to pick up the pace on touchdowns, averaging just six per year.
2. Brian Urlacher, MLB, Bears: He may not hold up to compariasons with the Ravens' Lewis, but in 10 years the six-time Pro Bowler has one more sack (37.5) than Lewis in 14 years, and 934 tackles, 17 interceptions, and eight forced fumbles.
3. Adrian Peterson, RB, Vikings: He's made three Pro Bowls in his first three seasons, averaging 1,776 yards of offense a season and 13 touchdowns. He should come close to Tomlinson numbers if he stays healthy.
4. Reggie Wayne, WR, Colts: His numbers are starting to pile up with Marvin Harrison out of the picture. In nine seasons, he has 676 receptions and 63 touchdowns. He should get to over 1,000 receptions and 100 touchdowns, but that may not be enough as receiving numbers are exploding.
5. Donovan McNabb, QB, Redskins: McNabb has been to five Pro Bowls, a Super Bowl and 12 playoff games (including five NFC title games). McNabb averages close to 3,000 yards and 19 touchdowns a season, and if he finds the same fountain of youth Elway found with Mike Shanahan, he could finish up with close to 50,000 yards and 285 touchdowns. A Super Bowl win would help his chances out a lot.
6. Champ Bailey, CB, Broncos: In 11 seasons, he has 46 interceptions, 107 passes defended and six forced fumbles and has often been referred to as the best in the game.
7. Brandon Marshall, WR, Dolphins: The guy has more than 100 receptions in each of the last three seasons and if the 26-year-old can keep his head on straight, he could wind up with well over 1,000 receptions. His yards per catch and touchdowns are not on pace with Moss or Owens, though.
8. DeMarcus Ware, OLB, Cowboys: He's been to four Pro Bowls in his first five seasons in which he's piled up 64.5 sacks (20 in 2008 alone). That's a darn good start for this 28-year-old. He could wind up with over 125 sacks and 50 forced fumbles by the end of his career.
May come up short
1. Hines Ward, WR, Steelers: After 12 seasons, 895 receptions and 78 touchdowns may leave him short. Ward is solid and durable but has never been a true No. 1 receiver.
2. Steven Jackson, RB, Rams: Such a talented athlete, but it's hard to get the recognition he may deserve on a bad team most of his career. After six seasons, he is averaging 1,221 yards from scrimmage and eight touchdowns a year.
3. Steve Smith, WR, Panthers: A little guy who's made big plays throughout his career. In nine seasons, Smith has 574 receptions and 50 TDs.
4. Ronde Barber, CB, Buccaneers: He's made five Pro Bowls in his 13-year career, in which he has 37 interceptions, 104 passes defended and 11 forced fumbles. It's been a fine career for Barber, but it might not be enough.
5. James Harrison, OLB, Steelers: Career got started late and after seven years has 38.5 sacks, three interceptions, 19 forced fumbles and 388 tackles.
Too early to tell, but signs look good
Joe Thomas, OT, Browns; Jared Allen, DE, Vikings; Darrelle Revis, CB, Jets; Patrick Willis, ILB, 49ers; Chris Johnson, RB, Titans; Jason Witten, TE, Cowboys
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>Of the recently retired I have to think Larry Allen will be in. Not sure if he will be first ballot or not!? >>
He earned the right to be first ballot, but not sure he will be being an offensive lineman.
How can Pat Kirwan not include Ogden or Hutchinson in the article?
<< <i>Of the recently retired I have to think Larry Allen will be in. Not sure if he will be first ballot or not!? >>
He should be, he was as dominant as they get.
<< <i>1. Andre Johnson, WR, Texans: In seven seasons, Johnson has 587 receptions for 7,948 yards and 42 touchdowns. To go along with that production, he's a high-character guy. Johnson can boast to being the only player besides Rice to lead the NFL in receiving back-to-back seasons since the merger. Johnson is on pace for more than 1,000 receptions, but he has to pick up the pace on touchdowns, averaging just six per year. >>
Rothlisberger is a lock with 2 rings. Thats more than Manning, Brees, and Favre.
Well, Jim Plunkett has two rings and a Heisman Trophy and he's not going to be inducted anytime soon. I'd say Big Ben has some work to do.
Well, Jim Plunkett has two rings and a Heisman Trophy and he's not going to be inducted anytime soon. I'd say Big Ben has some work to do.
And he has a Super Bowl MVP as well. Black Label is the ultimate Steelers homer...you can't take anything he says seriously..
In addition, there's no question that Ben had the absolute worst performance of any Super Bowl winning QB when they beat the Hawks (with the help of the officials)...the Steelers won in spite of him in that game..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Rothlisberger is a lock with 2 rings. Thats more than Manning, Brees, and Favre.
Well, Jim Plunkett has two rings and a Heisman Trophy and he's not going to be inducted anytime soon. I'd say Big Ben has some work to do.
And he has a Super Bowl MVP as well. Black Label is the ultimate Steelers homer...you can't take anything he says seriously..
In addition, there's no question that Ben had the absolute worst performance of any Super Bowl winning QB when they beat the Hawks (with the help of the officials)...the Steelers won in spite of him in that game.. >>
Another entry for the "hall of fame of stupid posts."
Ben may have had a bad super bowl against the seahawks, but give him a break. It was only his 2nd year in the NFL. A win is still a win, and he is the YOUNGEST QB in history to win a super bowl. And he did score a TD in that game. That year the steelers were a wild card 6th seed in the playoffs. Big Ben led them to 3 straight playoff wins on the road. And Ben was spectacular in all 3 of those wins. First time in history a team has done it. His 2nd super bowl, he threw the winning TD pass and is one of the best passes in super bowl history.
While Plunkett has a good SB record, his career was not hall of fame material. He never once threw for 3,000 yards in a season. While Rothlisberger is one of the most efficient passers in NFL history.
Ben currently ranks 9th all-time in NFL passer rating (91.7)
Ranks 5th in yds per attempt (8.01)
Ranks 8th in completion percentage (63.29)
Has the 5th highest winning percentage (.698) as a starter.
Don't tell Black label that...he maight take his black and gold pompoms and go home...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i> He was a very good QB. Not a HOFer. But, I still think he's accomplished more than Big Ben. Now Ben is young and can still do the right things and become a HOFer. I just think at this point he's not in. Not even close. >>
Plunkett is the only 2-time super bowl QB to not be in the hall of fame. His regular season stats were just mediocre at best. He threw 34 more interceptions than TD's. Ben has accomplished alot more in his career than Plunkett.
Unless Ben becomes the next Ryan Leaf in the next few years, he will get into the hall. He is one of the most efficient passers in history. The stats dont lie.
Byron Leftwich has a higher lifetime passer rating than Johnny Unitas, Bob Griese, Sid Luckman, Norm Van Brocklin, Sammy Baugh, and YA Tittle. Kerry Collins has thrown for more yards than any of those guys except Unitas (and he's barely behind Johnny). You going to try to convince me that Leftwich and Collins are better than the greatest QB's of all-time? Even your precious Terry Bradshaw ranks #138 in all-time rating. You really believe that guys like Charlie Batch, Vince Young, Josh McCown, etc... are better than Bradshaw? You've gotta compare guys within their own eras.
Now that Leftwich is a Steeler, I fully expect Black Label to be advocating his enshrinement by season's end, LOL..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Byron Leftwich has a higher lifetime passer rating than Johnny Unitas, Bob Griese, Sid Luckman, Norm Van Brocklin, Sammy Baugh, and YA Tittle. Kerry Collins has thrown for more yards than any of those guys except Unitas (and he's barely behind Johnny). You going to try to convince me that Leftwich and Collins are better than the greatest QB's of all-time?
Now that Leftwich is a Steeler, I fully expect Black Label to be advocating his enshrinement by season's end, LOL.. >>
When leftwich wins some super bowls and breaks all of the Steelers records like Ben is right now, then it will be a yes. Until then, no he wont get in
<< <i> You really believe that guys like Charlie Batch, Vince Young, Josh McCown, etc... are better than Bradshaw?. >>
The stats that i gave for Roethlisberger was based on QB's with 1500 minimum attempts.