PCGS opens a grading office in Paris

Hussulo

Full story:

http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=6218&universeid=313

One of my guesses for Davids Hall "Big One" thread was PCGS opening an office in Europe.

coinkat

My application was lost in the mail...

bidask

That's a big deal.

It will be interesting to see what coins may come out of Europe in slabs from there.

wybrit

I wonder if they will be doing any repeatability / reproducibility studies between the grading sites.

StubbyMcNumbthumbs

<< <i>I wonder if they will be doing any repeatability / reproducibility studies between the grading sites. >>




That's assuming the issue has already been addressed in the California office...

Hussulo

The only downside is you need to submit your coins through an authorised dealer. There are onlu four in the UK all auction houses. I dont think they would be keen to submit for you unless you were planing to sell in their auction.

DonWillis

Hussulo - you could try Ingram Liberman of the London Coin Co. He submitted coins to our Paris office on our last trip and was quite pleased with the results. UK dealers



wybrit - I wonder if they will be doing any repeatability / reproducibility studies between the grading sites.

I am not sure what you mean by this. If you are questioning the consistency of grading, please understand that we use the exact same standards and graders in Paris that we use in the states.


bidask - It will be interesting to see what coins may come out of Europe in slabs from there.

I completely agree. Having seen every coin submitted during our first trip, I am sure this will not disappoint. I believe this will significantly change market dynamics.

ajaan

<< <i>we use the exact same standards and graders in Paris that we use in the states >>


Does this mean your graders are periodically flying from CA to Paris to grade coins? If so, will this mean the turnaround times for coins submitted to CA will be significantly increased?

Hussulo

Thanks Don. I actually have a helpful friend in the US that submits them for me.

I guess it may help people in the UK in that if you ship coins to the US for grading and then back to the UK, you may get stung for import duty even though they were your coins in the first place. I don't know if the same duties would apply when you receive coins to the UK back from Paris (EU).

Does this mean your graders are periodically flying from CA to Paris to grade coins? If so, will this mean the turnaround times for coins submitted to CA will be significantly increased?

I'm think the coins will be accepted at Paris and shipped over to the US for grading and back to Paris? If they used other graders i.e. new graders based in Paris there may be a difference in grading standards?

ajaan

Hus,
It is the

<< <i>in Paris >>

that leads me to believe the grading is done in Paris. Hopefully Don will clarify this.

DonWillis

All coins submitted to the Paris office are graded onsite in Paris. Coins submitted on Monday or Tuesday are returned on Thursday or Friday.

No coins are shipped back to the US or from the US to the Paris office.

All the graders working in the Paris office are part of our US grading team. We will periodically travel to Paris for a minimum of one week of onsite grading.

There is no import/export, taxes or customs to go through when transporting coins within the EU. (The UK is part of the EU along with 25 other countries. The US and Switzerland are not.)

In Paris we only accept coins from EU dealers who must provide their VAT number when submitting.

tonyhar

It does not seem to help collectors club members this side of the pond! It looks that I will have to continue submitting to US !

LimaPeru

In Paris we only accept coins from EU dealers who must provide their VAT number when submitting.

I am based in a European country but would have to ship to the UK in order to find an authorised dealer.

Sorry but I don't understand why us lay collectors can't contribute coins. We can send them in for grading in the US but here in Europe we have to go through an authorised dealer.

It's been a while since I had coins graded and it looks as though the wait to grade will be longer.

I do agree that the dynamics of the market will change as European holders grade their coins.

Be aware though that there is still a stigma over grading in these parts ( probably because collectors know that some of their prized coins are cleaned ).

ajaan

Will this increase turnaround times for coins sent to CA?

wybrit

Don (Willis, not ajaan), thanks for your response. You did answer my question. The reproducibility will be the same since you have the same graders. Repeatability would involve having the same graders grade the same coins several different times to see how consistent an individual grader measures the parts (coins). Gage R&R studies are done in industry to determine how much variation there is in a measurement system. If interested in more info, please PM me.

7Jaguars

Another thought: how will the Europeans respond to a bunch of BB'd coins? Will that have any effect, as one would have to think that might hurt marketing.

adamlaneus

One more question:

If a PCGS coin graded by the French office does not grade...

Does it get a "Genuine" holder or does it get an "Authentique" holder?

DonWillis

LimaPeru - you can view the list of authorized dealers in the EU via the link in my previous post. We have dealers throughout Europe. You do not have to ship to the UK.

7Jaguars - one nice aspect of grading in Paris is that the coins we receive there are not as "messed with" as coins we receive in the US. A small percentage may have been cleaned but there are far fewer coins with egregious problems.

tonyhar - I suspect that many of the coins we grade in Paris will make their way into other markets. Therefore it will help you and other collectors throughout the world as many new coins begin to surface that you would not otherwise have seen.

tonyhar

I cannot see any answer to my question about submitting still to US. My membership runs out in two weeks and I am unsure about renewing or just send all my sbmissions to NGC?

Hussulo

It sounds like a good business plan to me. I think third party grading is starting to catch on in Europe. You are always going to have the old school collectors who don't like the idea and prefer their coins raw but I do think it will catch on.

The only problem is US and UK grading tends to be different, as you know we don't use the Sheldon standard and it took me a while to understand it. Also a lot of collectors consider UK grading to be a lot stricter, however looking through some UK dealers inventory's I think UK grading may have loosened slightly in the past couple of years (not naming any names).

You're main competition in the UK is CGS grading company but they work off a 100 point scale, even more confusing to most.

I think in time their will be more dealers in the UK that are PCGS registered. I have to admit posting some valuable coins to the US can be nerve racking. Although I trust my friend in the States 100% I'm dreading the day some get lost in the post.

If you ever decide to set up shop in the UK and are looking for staff please consider me.

ajaan

Will the graders going to Paris increase turnaround times for coins sent to CA?

7Jaguars

Don, thanks for your answers.

Good luck on this enterprise!