Some fake large cents for your viewing pleasure (1804 and 1823 restrikes)

rhedden

The 1804 and 1823 private "restrikes" are fake coppers produced in the 19th century, which are considered highly collectible despite their non-authenticity. The 1804 in particular has always fascinated me, due to the utter stupidity of using a Coronet Head reverse die instead of the normal wreath that would be found on an 1804 cent. I guess the counterfeiter could not locate a discarded die from the 1804 era. Were collectors of the 19th century really duped by these things?

In 2002, I sent the 1804 to ANACS for grading, thinking I might get an MS-63 BN. It came back "Not genuine." Of course, it's not genuine! Why did I think ANACS would grade it?

keyman64

Yuk!

johnny9434

what a bummer

okracer

I like 'em

I believe that 1804 "restrike" is very collectable.

rhedden

They are both collectible and listed in the Redbook. Actually, they are rather pricey in high grade!

PerryHall

Should they really be considered fakes as you call them or should they more properly be called privately issued restrikes since they did use real dies?

rhedden

In my original post, I referred to them both as private restrikes and as fakes. If I am not mistaken, both issues were extensively used to defraud collectors of the 19th century. Therefore, both terms seem appropriate to describe these dubious issues.

Walkerguy21D

Beautiful examples of both important 'issues'. I admit I clicked the thread expecting to see Chinese made 1799 or Chain cents. This was a very pleasant surprise!

Mercury10c

Those are pretty cool and are somewhat pricey in mid-upper grades.

lkenefic

<< <i>Beautiful examples of both important 'issues'. I admit I clicked the thread expecting to see Chinese made 1799 or Chain cents. This was a very pleasant surprise! >>



yeah... I thought the same thing... very pleasant surprise... Thanks for sharing!

L

rhedden

Judging by the responses, some forum members aren't familiar with the collectible restrikes of 1804 and 1823, so I changed the title of this thread and bumped it.

STONE

IF anybody can add a contemporary counterfeit Large Cent, I'd like to see those added to this post

I know of two different examples, but I'm sure there are a couple more - I don't know if a Forum Member owns any of these!

PerryHall

I'm not sure if they would be considered counterfeit but I've seen a few large cents where the word CENT was misspelled.

Steve27

Wow, cool coins, I didn't know these existed.

blu62vette

I think these are very cool looking....

PerryHall

<< <i>In my original post, I referred to them both as private restrikes and as fakes. If I am not mistaken, both issues were extensively used to defraud collectors of the 19th century. Therefore, both terms seem appropriate to describe these dubious issues. >>



I just can't imagine those coins fooled very many large cent collectors.

rhedden

I would imagine that 19th century collectors were fooled by the "restrikes," due to the general inaccessibility of reliable numismatic information back in the day. To support this assertion, consider a quote from Sheldon's book, p.313, 1990 edition, regarding the 1804 "restrike" (a quote which Sheldon is actually lifting from the earlier Proskey-Doughty reference... not to insinuate that Sheldon was fond of lifting things. )

"'This singular example of the low moral tone of some of our public officials made its appearance about the year 1860... in no (real) sense a restrike...but manufactured for the sole purpose of supplying coin dealers with a cent...they could sell to young and ignorant collectors.' (Proskey-Doughty)"

Nic

Cool coins!

K

rainbowroosie

Ditto -- COOL COINS

Edscoin

<< <i>IF anybody can add a contemporary counterfeit Large Cent, I'd like to see those added to this post

I know of two different examples, but I'm sure there are a couple more - I don't know if a Forum Member owns any of these! >>


The Red Book states that the 1848 small date is a rare contemporary counterfeit. Never seen one, but I sure would like too!

cardinal

<< <i>

<< <i>IF anybody can add a contemporary counterfeit Large Cent, I'd like to see those added to this post

I know of two different examples, but I'm sure there are a couple more - I don't know if a Forum Member owns any of these! >>


The Red Book states that the 1848 small date is a rare contemporary counterfeit. Never seen one, but I sure would like too! >>



Here are the 1818 and 1848 "fantasy" pieces, from the Holmes and Naftzger Collections, respectively:







Personally, I think the 1804 and 1823 "private restrikes" are very interesting collectible items, and there are a few that come with nice color





--Cardinal

Portraits of Liberty

STONE

Thanks Cardinal

I'm happy to see a board member was able to secure those!

rhedden

It's interesting that PCGS grades these, but ANACS would not when I submitted them in 2002. I guess they are considered semi-legitimate since they were produced from US mint dies.

LanceNewmanOCC

.
oh the irony

i saw the cardinal 1804 "certified" (i guess certification isn't synonymous with authentication but that is for another day) from the recent sale and figured i'd do some archive diggin' and see what others consider "private restrike" which i could only call counterfeit. so glad to see others are out there that feel the same.

who said it is illegal to sell counterfeits?

link to recent sale

edited to add:

thanks for sharing these images. great for study.
.

ebaybuyer

very interesting pieces ! definately something id like to add to my collection.

ebaybuyer

it is not illegal to sell counterfeits if they are described properly

CaptHenway

<< <i>it is not illegal to sell counterfeits if they are described properly >>



I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on television, but I would say that that statement is open to interpretation.

LanceNewmanOCC

.
just for the record, the H.P.A. is pretty clear on this issue. whether someone will spend time to pursue such things is another matter

not that i'm trying to start a debate about it.

my goal was to share/dig/research the private restrike i saw in the recent cardinal sale
.

lordmarcovan

Those are the kinda fake large cents I wouldn't mind having at all!

NumisOxide

Very cool! Always liked these.

CaptHenway

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>IF anybody can add a contemporary counterfeit Large Cent, I'd like to see those added to this post

I know of two different examples, but I'm sure there are a couple more - I don't know if a Forum Member owns any of these! >>


The Red Book states that the 1848 small date is a rare contemporary counterfeit. Never seen one, but I sure would like too! >>



Here are the 1818 and 1848 "fantasy" pieces, from the Holmes and Naftzger Collections, respectively:







Personally, I think the 1804 and 1823 "private restrikes" are very interesting collectible items, and there are a few that come with nice color





--Cardinal

Portraits of Liberty >>



Love the wreath on that 1818!

rhedden

I think that is the first time I have seen a photo of the 1848 "small date." I'd bid fifty cents on it. This 50 cent piece, specifically!

sniocsu

I love the restricts. Unfortunately, they are very hard to find outside of auctions. Not even the copper specialists have them most of the time