DC shows card delivered to different zip...who is SOL? UPDATE #3...still me. Thanks BBB

burke23 · June 17, 2010 2:21PM

So I pay for a card and it doesn't come and is not shipped through ebay - guy says he sent it, and that if I don't see it by today (12 days from sent date) to let him know. Nothing, so he locates delivery confirmation. Here is the delivery confirmation...buy my I never received card or even a Notice, and my zip is 55417. Thoughts?

Your item was delivered at 2:47 PM on June 14, 2010 in MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55411.

Detailed Results:

Bullet Delivered, June 14, 2010, 2:47 pm, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55411
Bullet Notice Left, June 10, 2010, 8:13 am, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55411
Bullet Sorting Complete, June 08, 2010, 9:28 am, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55417
Bullet Undeliverable as Addressed, June 08, 2010, 8:51 am, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55417
Bullet Arrival at Post Office, June 08, 2010, 6:32 am, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55417
Bullet Processed through Sort Facility, June 07, 2010, 11:06 pm, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55401
Bullet Acceptance, June 05, 2010, 9:02 am, ROANOKE, VA 24019

MeteoriteGuy · June 17, 2010 2:23PM

<< So I pay for a card and it doesn't come and is not shipped through ebay - guy says he sent it, and that if I don't see it by today (12 days from sent date) to let him know. Nothing, so he locates delivery confirmation. Here is the delivery confirmation...buy my I never received card or even a Notice, and my zip is 55417. Thoughts?

Your item was delivered at 2:47 PM on June 14, 2010 in MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55411.

Detailed Results:

Bullet Delivered, June 14, 2010, 2:47 pm, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55411
Bullet Notice Left, June 10, 2010, 8:13 am, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55411
Bullet Sorting Complete, June 08, 2010, 9:28 am, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55417
Bullet Undeliverable as Addressed, June 08, 2010, 8:51 am, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55417
Bullet Arrival at Post Office, June 08, 2010, 6:32 am, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55417
Bullet Processed through Sort Facility, June 07, 2010, 11:06 pm, MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55401
Bullet Acceptance, June 05, 2010, 9:02 am, ROANOKE, VA 24019 >>

Not sure, but it appears it was addressed correctly zip code wise at first.

storm888 · June 17, 2010 2:24PM

If the ZIP in your PayPal account is not the same
ZIP on the DC, the DC is worthless to the seller.

You will prevail in an INR-claim.

burke23 · June 17, 2010 2:28PM

<< If the ZIP in your PayPal account is not the same
ZIP on the DC, the DC is worthless to the seller.

You will prevail in an INR-claim. >>

That's good to hear - hoping that is the case. I really hope the seller doesn't get hosed. Someone will be happy with the random delivery of a $250 card.

grote15 · June 17, 2010 2:36PM

From the "undeliverable as addressed" update, it almost seems like the package was returned to sender, except the seller is in VA, of course..

storm888 · June 17, 2010 2:37PM

<< 

<< If the ZIP in your PayPal account is not the same
ZIP on the DC, the DC is worthless to the seller.

You will prevail in an INR-claim. >>

That's good to hear - hoping that is the case. I really hope the seller doesn't get hosed. Someone will be happy with the random delivery of a $250 card. >>

//////////////////////////////////

If the card was $250, the seller needed to use SigCon in order
to be "protected" by PayPal.

DC is for items UNDER $250.

The "notice left" line indicates the item may have had SigCon.

If so, at least the carrier will prolly be able to track down whoever
signed for the item.

gameusedhoop · June 17, 2010 9:24PM

Go to your postmaster with the DC #. Ask them what is up, seems like there is something amiss here.

burke23 · June 18, 2010 2:49AM

Seller is going to the postmaster with his DC, but I opened up a 'ticket' and escalated on ebay. Seller isn't pleased, but the card is gone - why wait on putting this on ebay to review/research? I figure the Post Office can only give us hypotheticals...unless the carrier remembers the package and the house, and can reclaim, it's a lost item. Just delaying the inevitable. Am I missing something that I should not have moved this fast?

artistlost · June 18, 2010 2:57AM

I think you handled it just fine. I would question the process with Ebay for the claim and not Paypal though. I would think that Paypal should be the way to go.

mathew

storm888 · June 18, 2010 3:11AM

"...I would think that Paypal should be the way to go...."

/////////////////////////////

Because the addy at PayPal governs the seller's protocol, PP
is the best filing venue.

BUT, it does not really matter. The buyer will prevail, in the end.

burke23 · June 18, 2010 3:28AM

<< "...I would think that Paypal should be the way to go...."

/////////////////////////////

Because the addy at PayPal governs the seller's protocol, PP
is the best filing venue.

BUT, it does not really matter. The buyer will prevail, in the end. >>

Since he didn't ship through paypal, I thought ebay was my best shot. And while I hope to and assume I will prevail, I am really hoping the seller doesn't get hosed in the process. I wonder if he would be 'safer' if he had shipped through ebay/paypal? And I guess the purchase price was $249...so he could be safe on the signature confirmation requirement. Strange deal all around.

storm888 · June 18, 2010 3:35AM

"...Since he didn't ship through paypal, I thought ebay was my best shot...."

///////////////////////////////////////////

The vendor of the postage does not govern the shipping protocol
required for "Seller Protection."

The addy that appears on the seller's "receipt of payment" notice
determines whether or not SP is in force. The seller must ship to
that addy - as written - or he will not be covered by PP-SP.

................

$249 would make SC unnecessary. But, based on the "notice
left" notation, he may have used SC. Tho, DC would be sufficient
to qualify for PP-SP.

burke23 · June 22, 2010 9:19AM

alright - so I escalate this issue since the seller and I have nothing to resolve. I talk on the phone and they rule in favor of the seller because DC shows item as delivered 'in my area'. That's right - keep all the cards you want as long as you mail to a friend in a zip close to the buyer. Storm or anyone else...thoughts? How the hell is this my fault?

Edit to add - seller did not print a shpping label through ebay/paypal, so I can't confirm delivery address (although I believe seller is on the up and up).

gameusedhoop · June 22, 2010 9:41AM

Take the DC # to YOUR postmaster, they have interal records that aren't publically online. They may be able to tell you more, and they have access to your carrier too. It can't hurt. Also see if the package was sent insured by your seller, if it was and it was mis-delivered you can pursue that too. Either way don't give up with the PO if your seller sent it to the proper addie, He isn't at fault, the handler is. Pressure the PO, they'll try to place blame etc., the more persistant you are the more likely they'll investigate and settle. Go to the top, talk to the Postmaster in your city, and if the seller can scan his DC or Sig Conf. and email it to you the better. It will show the proper address, if it doesn't then you will have the amunition for a case against ebay-paypal. Been drinking, hope this all makes sense...

1989FleerBillRipkencollector · June 22, 2010 9:51AM

rule in favor of the seller because DC shows item as delivered 'in my area'.

Wow! Very interesting and scary too.

Reminds me of a issue I recently had and they were telling me to remind them about their perfect fb and I had yet to leave fb. I said that's fb extortion, I'll get in trouble. They said no, your just reminding them....

storm888 · June 22, 2010 10:13AM

You need to appeal EBAY's insane decision.

Get a supervisor on the phone.

If you lose, call PayPal and tell them what happened.

If PP will not reverse the EBAY decision, and you used
a credit card, do an immediate chargeback on it with
your CC-co.

If you cannot do a CC-chargeback, file an immediate
complaint with the San Jose BBB.

.........................

Print out the info at USPS.

As guh suggested, go to your PO and tell them what
happened. Ask them to trace the item.

If the item was USPS insured, file a claim.

..................................................

I doubt PP would have made that decision.

burke23 · June 22, 2010 1:31PM

<< You need to appeal EBAY's insane decision.

Get a supervisor on the phone.

If you lose, call PayPal and tell them what happened.

If PP will not reverse the EBAY decision, and you used
a credit card, do an immediate chargeback on it with
your CC-co.

If you cannot do a CC-chargeback, file an immediate
complaint with the San Jose BBB.

.........................

Print out the info at USPS.

As guh suggested, go to your PO and tell them what
happened. Ask them to trace the item.

If the item was USPS insured, file a claim.

..................................................

I doubt PP would have made that decision. >>

Glad to see others support my position. So how does one get a supervisor on the phone there? The woman i was talking to basically had her supervisor hand down the decision. I did file an appeal through ebay - is it best to wait 72 hours for them to respond, or to call before I hear from them and ask to escalate? I didn't pay with a CC so no recourse there. Overall a ridiculous situation. She even asked me if the seller offered me a chance to purchase insurance, to which I told her that according to EBAY Tos the seller can't...so I understand, anyway. Just crazy.

ndleo · June 22, 2010 1:59PM

It took me 3 months to resolve an issue where the seller sent me the wrong card. Ebay and PP were useless. I went right to the credit card company. I finally won but it was a major hassle.

That is why I always pay with a credit card.

storm888 · June 22, 2010 2:05PM

For months, I have been telling folks - buyers/sellers - to
avoid using the EBAY "resolution" scheme.

Most folks thought that advice was seller-bias motivated.
It's not.

It is about getting relatively competent/reasonable/rule-based
decisions. PayPal is more likely to render such decisions.

...................................

Look for a similar addy in the delivery zip.

If you find one, show it to EBAY.

Get your PO on the case.

If you continue to lose, go to PayPal.

If you strike out at PP, go to the San Jose BBB site.

........

burke23 · June 22, 2010 2:29PM

<< For months, I have been telling folks - buyers/sellers - to
avoid using the EBAY "resolution" scheme.

Most folks thought that advice was seller-bias motivated.
It's not.

It is about getting relatively competent/reasonable/rule-based
decisions. PayPal is more likely to render such decisions.

...................................

Look for a similar addy in the delivery zip.

If you find one, show it to EBAY.

Get your PO on the case.

If you continue to lose, go to PayPal.

If you strike out at PP, go to the San Jose BBB site.

........ >>

Storm - never again will I go through ebay. But I did try to submit problem in Paypal, and it just sent me to Ebay's resolution page. Is there a way to go around this?

Blacklabelsociety · June 22, 2010 8:29PM

<< 

file an immediate
complaint with the San Jose BBB.
>>

Storm , I was wondering what good would this do?

storm888 · June 23, 2010 1:35AM

<< 

<< 

file an immediate complaint with the San Jose BBB.
>>

...I was wondering what good would this do? >>

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

EBAY/PayPal have a high resolution rate of such claims.

In the OP's case, EBAY has disregarded PP policy and
caused the OP to suffer a loss.

The USPS tracking info clearly notes that the item was
addressed in a manner that precluded its delivery; this
was noted PRIOR to the time the item was misdelivered.

Mail w/o a ZIP cannot be efficiently delivered and may be
returned to the sender. Mail with an incorrect ZIP will be
delayed and can easily be misdelivered.

PayPal requires that items be mailed to the addy on file,
as said addy is printed on the seller's payment confirmation
ticket.

For EBAY to state, "the item was delivered to your area" is
ludicrous AND violates PP policy.

.........................................
...................................................
..........................................................

Folks are fond of saying, "Insurance is for the benefit of the
buyer."

For a long time, I have told buyers that the ONE time that
"insurance is for the benefit of the buyer" is when the DC/SC
ticket mistakenly shows the item was delivered.

Sellers know this, EBAY knows this. For sellers to ship expensive
items w/o insurance - because a DC ticket will protect them - is
negligent and disregards the rights/interests of the buyer. EBAY
should adjust the policy and require that USPS INS be purchased
on items valued in excess of $100; the cost should be included in
the stated S+H. (Most "private insurance" won't solve the problem
because the carriers will not accept for filing a claim that disputes
the information noted on a DC/SC ticket.)

Typical Feedback Exchange between large sellers using "private
insurance" in such a controversy:

Buyer: "Item Not Received, USPS Error, Private Insurance No Good"

Seller: "USPS said item delivered, cannot file claim with private insurer"

USPS INS accepts such claims for filing and pays them, because they
KNOW that DC is NOT "proof" of delivery to the intended recipient.

...................................................................................

In the instant case, the item was $1.00 short of the $250
limit that would require SigCon.

It is unclear whether or not SC was used.

KbKards · June 23, 2010 2:10AM

The buyer really needs to go to his Post Office with the tracking number and have them figure out what was done with his package. Paypal, Ebay, the seller can't do this for him and it could be easily recoverable by the Post Office. This could eliminate any need to pursue a claim.

hhmag70 · June 23, 2010 2:19AM

<< The buyer really needs to go to his Post Office with the tracking number and have them figure out what was done with his package. Paypal, Ebay, the seller can't do this for him and it could be easily recoverable by the Post Office. This could eliminate any need to pursue a claim. >>

The SELLER can do this as I have done it when the same situation happened for a buyer of mine. USPS did finally get the item to the correct destination, but this is not on the buyers list of responsabilities.

storm888 · June 23, 2010 3:19AM

"...but this is not on the buyers list of responsabilities...."

///////////////////////////

Technically true.

But, in this case the seller has ZERO motivation to
be helpful.

Sometimes, on EBAY, the seller's responsibility must
become that of the buyer.

burke23 · June 23, 2010 3:22AM

<< "...but this is not on the buyers list of responsabilities...."

///////////////////////////

Technically true.

But, in this case the seller has ZERO motivation to
be helpful.

Sometimes, on EBAY, the seller's responsibility must
become that of the buyer. >>

I would love to get to the PO - but only day that is possible is Saturday due to work...I will see what I can find out this Saturday. Angry.

KbKards · June 23, 2010 4:06AM

The seller isn't a customer of the buyer's local Post Office. A customer walking in with an inquiry like this will get help and the sooner this is done the better. If you can't go in then call them with the info. If I wanted the cards I'd be dealing with the Post Office. If I wanted my money back I'd contact my credit card company if Ebay/PayPal doesn't come through.

storm888 · July 5, 2010 11:23AM

Warning to buyers:

This item was delivered to the wrong ZIP.

On appeal, EBAY decided for the seller.

........................................................

USPS insurance would likely have solved the problem.

...........

bobbyw8469 · July 5, 2010 12:25PM

Technically, EBay buyers don't buy insurance anymore....it is supposed to be included when the seller ships the item...... If the item was put on a credit card, I would do a chargeback...I don't understand how Ebay can side with the seller when the zip code it was shipped to was different than the buyers zip...

storm888 · July 5, 2010 12:34PM

<< Technically, EBay buyers don't buy insurance anymore....it is supposed to be included when the seller ships the item...... If the item was put on a credit card, I would do a chargeback...I don't understand how Ebay can side with the seller when the zip code it was shipped to was different than the buyers zip... >>

///////////////////////////////////////////

I guess a buyer can "insist" that the seller use USPS insurance
and the buyer can pay for it.

Apparently, the credit-card company also rejected the chargeback.

.........

The EBAY/PP decision defies reason.

bobbyw8469 · July 5, 2010 12:40PM

<< Apparently, the credit-card company also rejected the chargeback. >>

That's why I bank at 3 different banks....I just WANT one of them to not do the right thing....it would give me a reason to consolidate!

WinPitcher · July 5, 2010 12:48PM

How much money are we talking about here?

I looked but can't find the answer.

I know it's not the money it's the principle but I would still like to know.

Steve

storm888 · July 5, 2010 1:03PM

$249.00 (exactlty.)

08HALA20 · July 5, 2010 1:25PM

I had a package sent to me with a similiar trackinf info.
Someone in post office misread my town as Marshfield not Mansfield and changed zipcode.
I called other postoffice and gave them delivery confirmation # and they found my package
on a shelf. It was sent to a PO box and pulled out as an error.

They then sent it along to me, mine also showed delivered.

burke23 · July 5, 2010 1:42PM

<< $249.00 (exactlty.) >>

Thanks to Storm for the help - a complaint has been filed with the San Jose BBB. The best part was the bank that denied the chargeback (or whatever it was since it was actually a check account card) was the bank i work for. Sigh.

storm888 · July 5, 2010 3:36PM

The UA on debit cards is different than that on credit cards.

You might try reading the UA and looking for a loophole.

................

It is never a good idea to buy anything on EBAY - via PayPal - using any
method other than a Credit Card.

jaderock · July 5, 2010 8:12PM

Wow...that is really crazy bad. I hope that, in the end, you get the card delivered or your money back

burke23 · August 30, 2010 3:46AM

Update - after filing a complaint with the BBB, Ebay did not overturn their decision. Apparently the BBB lets these companies self-regulate the complaints? What is the point of that? I feel great that an issue was logged somewhere only to collect electronic dust (e-dust?). I am still out $249 simply because I paid for an auction via paypal and the seller decided to handwrite the address label incorrectly.

DC shows card delivered to different zip...who is SOL? UPDATE #3...still me. Thanks BBB

Comments