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1797 $1 Flowing Hair 10x6 Stars.......A customer brought this


Into the store today and asked me what I thought of it, I know little to nothing about the series I told him, but I did look up the cert....I don't know if it's a typo or what but the cert look up states
that the coin is a 9x7 Stars ?

The old green holder looked good to me with the exception of the printing and bar code, it seemed as though the printer was short on ink or something compared to other ones that I have.

So opinions on the coin would be appreciated....is it the real deal with a typo...or something more sinister ?

Note: I did weigh the slab 55.9 g

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    commoncents05commoncents05 Posts: 10,078 ✭✭✭
    It's the real deal.

    -Paul
    Many Quality coins for sale at http://www.CommonCentsRareCoins.com
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    fastfreddiefastfreddie Posts: 2,767 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The cert. checks out on the PCGS website. Price guide is $5k but 1797 is a tough - low mint year of under 8k pieces minted. Does the plastic look intact? Any signs of tampering? Photos look right.
    It is not that life is short, but that you are dead for so very long.
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    PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭
    Early Dollars .org

    1797 Draped Bust, Small Eagle Reverse Dollars.
    3 Types.
    Stars 9 x 7, Large Letters R1
    Stars 9 x 7, Small Letters R3
    Stars 10 x 6, Large Letters R1

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    LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,681 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Something strikes me as odd with that coin.

    The numbers (in the date) don't seem to match, the wear pattern.
    It's in a slab, but lately, what does that mean?
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    LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,681 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Early Dollars .org

    1797 Draped Bust, Small Eagle Reverse Dollars.
    3 Types.
    Stars 9 x 7, Large Letters R1
    Stars 9 x 7, Small Letters R3
    Stars 10 x 6, Large Letters R1 >>



    Placid, how do you differentiate between the smallletters and the large letter of the 1797 9X7? >>

    Are you wondering what I'm wondering?
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    LoveMyLibertyLoveMyLiberty Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭
    The more I look at this coin the less I like it! It looks like a BB-71 10 X 6 Large letters,
    but the lettering around seems quite crude
    the 9 in the date seems mis shapen compared to a known example
    The stars are excessively flat
    The letters seem too wide & the serifs too triangular
    The last 7 in the date seems too close to the drapery
    and a few other things that just don't look quite right.

    I am not an expert, but I would have the piece reviewed by PCGS prior to a deal.

    This is the only variety of the 10 X 6. The large & small letters are for the 9 X 7 and
    refer to the reverse lettering size of UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

    The slab is a 4th generation & appears to be correct.
    JMHO
    My Type Set

    R.I.P. Bear image
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    joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭✭✭


    Granted the coin was cleaned and has retoned

    It looks like a very common look from coins in the early 18'th century.

    cleaned then retoned.

    The adjustment marks dont really take away from it in my opinion.

    send it in for review if you like-but the misattribution from 10x6 to 9x7 was probably a simple oversight.

    all just mop
    may the fonz be with you...always...
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    LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,681 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The mouth is wrong, the nose is wrong, and the eye is wrong! But ...
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    PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Early Dollars .org

    1797 Draped Bust, Small Eagle Reverse Dollars.
    3 Types.
    Stars 9 x 7, Large Letters R1
    Stars 9 x 7, Small Letters R3
    Stars 10 x 6, Large Letters R1 >>



    Placid, how do you differentiate between the smallletters and the large letter of the 1797 9X7? >>



    The early dollars .org says the letter A in States on the reverse is the best way to tell.
    If the top of the A is slanted it is Large lettering.
    If the top of the A is pointed it is Small lettering.
    See link for pics of the lettering.
    Link to large vs. small lettering on 1797.
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    EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Folks,

    The 10x6 variety usually comes with a bad look because of the circumstances under which they were struck. Not all 1797-dated ED's were coined in 1797. There was a problem at the mint in 1797 (I think there was an outbreak of disease), and the Mint employees didn't pack the dies away well enough. When production resumed in 1798, they used 1797-dated dies that had rust.

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • Options
    AnalystAnalyst Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭

    EastVillageProwler: <<The 10x6 variety usually comes with a bad look because of the circumstances under which they were struck.>>

    To some extent, this is true. Before 1799, there were many U.S. Mint caused imperfections on silver dollars. Martin Logies is cited in regard to related points in current articles.

    U.S. Silver Dollars of 1797

    The Fabulous Eric Newman Collection, Part 7: Gem Quality Early U.S. Silver Dollars
    "In order to understand the scarce coins that you own or see, you must learn about coins that you cannot afford." -Me
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    DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,963 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks totally genuine to me.
    When in doubt, don't.
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    mariner67mariner67 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Looks totally genuine to me. >>



    +1
    Successful trades/buys/sells with gdavis70, adriana, wondercoin, Weiss, nibanny, IrishMike, commoncents05, pf70collector, kyleknap, barefootjuan, coindeuce, WhiteTornado, Nefprollc, ajw, JamesM, PCcoins, slinc, coindudeonebay,beernuts, and many more
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    BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,729 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This thread is 3 years old. The cert # shows the coin sold at a SB auction 3/31/2011 for $4140. Also still shows as a 9x7, Lg Letters.
  • Options
    cardinalcardinal Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>This thread is 3 years old. The cert # shows the coin sold at a SB auction 3/31/2011 for $4140. Also still shows as a 9x7, Lg Letters. >>



    What hasn't been mentioned yet, is that the label says neither "10x6 Stars" or "9x7 Stars."

    The coin in the original post was graded long enough ago that it was before PCGS started using separate coin numbers for the different RedBook types of 1797 dollars. Any and every 1797 graded by PCGS during that period was assigned the PCGS Coin Number 6863. (Likewise, NGC made no labeling distinctions of the 1797 varieties back in those days.) Later on, PCGS implemented Coin Numbers 6865 and 6866 to designate the "10x6 Stars" and "9x7 Stars, Small Letters" varieties, and Coin Number 6863 was retained and re-designated for the "9x7 Stars, Large Letters" variety.
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    ShortgapbobShortgapbob Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭
    Just a heads up, ALWAYS count the stars on Early Dollars regardless of what the holder has it attributed as. At some grade levels, it can be costly if the holder has a typo and you don't count stars.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -- Aristotle

    For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.

    The Reeded Edge
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    EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why do people resurrect old threads?!?

    As for 1797-dated dollars, it's the 9x7 SL variety that is most coveted. BB-72.

    I remember one day many years ago, at Baltimore, a dealer had the Eliasberg BB-72 for sale. It just so happens that 2 people got to the table ahead of me: Highlander (who bought it), Beboplawyer (close friend) and me. Both Beboplawyer and I cursed our bad luck for not wandering there first.

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • Options
    AnalystAnalyst Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭

    EastVillageProwler: <<Why do people resurrect old threads?!?.>>

    The reason in this case is very much obvious. The U.S. silver coins in the Eric Newman Collection were just sold in Nov. 2013. The Newman Collection had one of the all-time best trios of 1797 dollars. Therefore, 1797 dollars were very much 'in the news' when this thread was resurrected. Most of those who participated in this thread probably subscribed to it and have already indicated an interest in 1797 dollars. Also, others who are interested in 1797 dollars may wish to read remarks put forth about 1797 dollars by fellow collectors in the past. It is logical for this thread to have been resurrected.

    EastVillageProwler: <<<As for 1797-dated dollars, it's the 9x7 SL variety that is most coveted. BB-72.>>

    This point is well taken, but obvious. Indeed, this point is readily apparent at a glance in almost any price guide. If EastVillageProwler had read the above and below cited article on 1797 dollars, he would know that the Newman Collection 1797-Small Letters is, by far, the finest known and its emergence is one of the most exciting events of all time for collectors who are interested in 1797 dollars.

    U.S. Silver Dollars of 1797

    The Fabulous Eric Newman Collection, Part 7: Gem Quality Early U.S. Silver Dollars

    "In order to understand the scarce coins that you own or see, you must learn about coins that you cannot afford." -Me

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