2010 Silver Panda Date varieties

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Large and Small Date varieties of the 2010 silver Pandas have turned up. Photos are posted at www.pandacollector.com. These are the first Panda date varieties since 1999—more fun for an already active part of the field.
Best wishes,
Peter A.

MrOrganic

Thanx for the info!

sbeverly

Oh boy...

another one I get to chase. I just looked at my NGC graded MS70 to see if I could determine which one it is.

Lo and behold...
There are spots and discoloration all over the reverse. I don't know if it turned in the holder or what.

I really don't know if it came back from NGC that way.
I sent it in with many other coins and didn't really look at it when it came back.

I have never had a Panda turn in the holder. It looks different than the spots that form on the ASE's

trozau

I wonder if the 2010 date varieties apply to the gold as well. sbeverly, post some pics if you can. Curious about the spotting.

sbeverly

The first image is the ms70. The second image is from the same batch of coins but it graded ms69
I noticed that all the 2010's have a film around the reverse edge of the coin.

sbeverly

Being concerned, I went through all my Silver Pandas.
I have all the years, the regular strikes, proofs, and the commems.

It looks like the 09's as well as the 10's are turning in their holders.

I have 4 ms69 2009's and all of them have developed the film substance on the reverse rim.

All the others are fine up to 2009 so it's not a storage issue.

I have 3 total of the 2010's. In addition to the film, 2 of them are spotting. The above picture
of the ms70 is the worst case example.

FilamCoins

That's horrific for a MS-70!

Do you have any restitution?

Not clear to me where the fault lies.

sbeverly

I'll give the good folks over at NGC a call.
They have always been very helpful.

trozau

Thanks for posting pictures. If it is poor manufacturing QC or just a bad batch, I'm sure more reports of spotting will surface shortly. Hope NGC gives you a free conservation service to remove the spotting.

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As far as I can determine all the 2010 gold Panda coins were struck at the Shenzhen GuoBao Mint. Since only one mint facility is involved I doubt we will get gold varieties this year. If anybody comes across a gold Panda from Shenyang or Shanghai please post a photo of it!

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I have to correct what I wrote yesterday. I have just came across a 2010 gold coin in a pouch from the Shanghai Mint, so there are at least two Mints that struck 2010 gold Pandas. Perhaps we will have gold varieties too. I'll post what I find out after the coin arrives.

trozau

<< <i>I have to correct what I wrote yesterday. I have just came across a 2010 gold coin in a pouch from the Shanghai Mint, so there are at least two Mints that struck 2010 gold Pandas. Perhaps we will have gold varieties too. I'll post what I find out after the coin arrives. >>


Is Shanghai Mint impressed on the soft plastic pouch as opposed to Shenzhen Mint?

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No but it has the characteristic diagonal markings of a Shanghai-produced coin. The Shenzhen GuoBao coins have their own pattern and have the Mint name impressed in the plastic.

HonoluluDude

FWIW... out of my small hoard of 25, only 3 of them are of the "large date" variety.

GRANDAM

Am I correct in ass/u/ming that the top photo is the Large Date?

Also, on the Large / Small Date varieties from previous years is there a pattern of which Mint produces the Large Date Coins or is it random from year to year?



GrandAm

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Yes, the top photo is the 2010 Large Date.

The other years for which Large and Small Date Panda varieties exist are 1989-1999. During those years Large and Small Dates were struck at both the Shanghai and Shenyang Mint facilities. However in any single year each Mint struck only one variety. For example, in 1990 the Shenyang Mint produced all Small Date Pandas while all Large Dates were minted in Shanghai. In 1996 the situation was reversed with Small Date Pandas minted in Shenyang and Large Dates in Shanghai. 1999 also has a third variety from Shenzhen Guobao. BTW, Small and Large Dates were not usually produced in equal quantities in any given year.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
Pandacollector.com

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Well, it turns out the 2010 "Shanghai" gold coins are counterfeits. One quick way to spot them is the rounded edges of their pouches. Also note the difference in edge patterns of the pouches, the genuine Shenzhen Guobao pouch has a very distinctive design. I've posted a comparison of a counterfeit 2010 vs. a real one on the counterfeit Panda coins page of Pandacollector.com. Unless a genuine gold Panda turns up from either Shanghai or Shenyang there will not be multiple date varieties in 2010 gold Pandas, only in silver Pandas.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
www.pandacollector.com

trozau

Thanks for the info. Curious though if the counterfeit also has the diagonal reeding. If NOT, then that is one other way to tell.

sbeverly

Peter,

By the spacing of the last zero to the edge of the coin, can I assume that my 2010's are the small date variety?

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It looks like a Large Date to me. In addition to the size of the date the lettering is closer to the edge than on a Small Date.
Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
PandaCollector.com

sbeverly

If you assume that the two examples are a fairly accurate representations of the large and small date,
I concluded the following:

1) without actual measurement numbers, the only thing to measure was relative distance.

2) Using a pair of calipers and my engineering background, I found that the distance from the edge
of the coin to the edge of the last zero was approximately the same distance as the left to right measurement of the
gap of that same zero for the small date variety.

3) The same relative measurement on the large date variety shows that the distance between the edge of the coin to the zero
is approximately half the distance than the left to right measurement of the gap of that same zero.

4) The measurement of my actual 2010 has the same relative measurement as number 2, or the small date variety.

Of course, I am only going on pictures that may have been put together for illustration purposes only. The only way to know for sure is to have actual measurements, or both coins in hand to compare.

Do you know if the TPG's are on board with these two varieties?

I remember when the 1999 large date was issued that it took the TPG's a while to conclude that there were actually two different types.

1) The large date straight legs
2) The rarer large date Serif 1

I had a friend that had a couple of sheets of the Serif 1 that came back graded as "large date" without the Serif 1 designation.
He sold many of these on ebay for way under market value. He understands the difference now.

It seems to me that the difference between the large and small date 2010 is more subtle than the 1999 large date.

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I completely agree with you that the difference in date size is subtle. The greatest disparity in placement seems to me to be the first "2" in 2010. This will be a difficult coin to tell the varieties apart just through the date size. More noticeable is that the lettering of the large Date is closer to the rim at top. Here is a scan of the two with the Large Date on the left. The blue guides are added to show how the numbers and characters line up. The luster of the two coins is quite different, which is immediately apparent when you put them side-by-side. The Large Date has a dark shimmer that makes the Small Date look white by comparison.



I haven't heard of any official recognition of these varieties yet. Given that the biggest variation is the luster it will be interesting to see how this is viewed.

Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
PandaCollector.com

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I've been concerned that the above photo was done with the coins still in their original capsules. These capsules have slightly curved surfaces and so may introduce both distortion and reflections into the photo. Below is a photo from two slabbed coins. I think it illustrates the difference between Large and Small Date coins better than the earlier one.



Best wishes,
Peter Anthony
www.PandaCollector.com