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How does PCGS Secure Plus Service handle AU 58?

Halfhunter06Halfhunter06 Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
What exactly is an AU-58+?? It certainly may not a "close 60", so how do they judge the grading for this grade?

Comments

  • ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,923 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That is a very good question since MS 60 can be a baggy dog, much worse than most 58's.
  • ProofCentsProofCents Posts: 1,656
    They won't give a 58 a plus
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>They won't give a 58 a plus >>

    They already have.
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • etexmikeetexmike Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>They won't give a 58 a plus >>

    They already have. >>



    Yep. Just check the Shared Orders page. AU58+

    AU58+


    Mike
  • BubbleheadBubblehead Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>They won't give a 58 a plus >>

    They already have. >>



    Yep. Just check the Shared Orders page. AU58+

    AU58+


    Mike >>



    image

    Funny thing, tho. When you dial in the cert verification it comes up as not valid...
    or whatever the words are... It's been long enough, right?
  • etexmikeetexmike Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Funny thing, tho. When you dial in the cert verification it comes up as not valid...
    or whatever the words are... It's been long enough, right? >>



    Don't know if this is just a typo or not or how long it takes to get the cert number into the system. image


    Mike
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    Cert number verification show up later in the evening. My guess is the do an automatic update later in the evening on the same day to coin posts.

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • JupitarCoinsJupitarCoins Posts: 2,595 ✭


    << <i>They won't give a 58 a plus >>



    Wrongimage
    Positive:
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    Robb, Tee135, Ibzman350, Mercfan, Outhaul, Erickso1, Cugamongacoins, Indiananationals, Wayne Herndon

    Negative BST Transactions:
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I bet when we all get to see a pic of this 58+ we will
    all be able to easily see its true grade is a 58.87625.....
    easily beating out a close rival graded 58.87621 and
    therefor selling at a 175% premium over coin number two.

    I may just go back to my penny boards... image
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • TomBTomB Posts: 21,939 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I guess it is just a high end AU58.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,633 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>What exactly is an AU-58+?? >>



    An AU58+ should be a mint state coin with the barest trace of wear. It used to be called a "slider" or a "commercial uncirculated". When you buy a raw "choice uncirculated" coin from one of those full page ads in Coin World, this is what you'll get---if you're lucky.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>They won't give a 58 a plus >>



    I just saw an SP AU50+ in my web searches.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • dsessomdsessom Posts: 2,426 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PCGS will give a coin a "+" to grades 45-58 and 62-69 if they are submitted to the Secure Plus service, and meet the criteria.
    Best regards,
    Dwayne F. Sessom
    Ebay ID: V-Nickel-Coins
  • ProofCentsProofCents Posts: 1,656
    I thought MS60 was the lower grade they would give a plus to?
  • dsessomdsessom Posts: 2,426 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "We believe coins designated with a "+" could trade at a substantial premium over those coins without it. This will be especially apparent for coins where there is a large jump in value between grades. PCGS Secure Plus will help the market recognize the value of coins that are almost, but not quite, deserving of a higher grade.

    Plus grading will apply only to grades ranging from XF45 to MS68, with the exception of MS60 and MS61, which will not be eligible for Plus designations."

    So, 45-58 and 62-68.

    Best regards,
    Dwayne F. Sessom
    Ebay ID: V-Nickel-Coins
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,633 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Plus grading will apply only to grades ranging from XF45 to MS68, with the exception of MS60 and MS61, which will not be eligible for Plus designations."

    So, 45-58 and 62-68. >>



    This makes no sense whatsoever. If a very, very high end 61 is almost a 62, why shouldn't it get a plus?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • dsessomdsessom Posts: 2,426 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The logic behind it is that "+" coins have to meet certain criteria including exceptional eye appeal. Most 60 and 61s are baggy and have many marks on them that would exclude them from being "Exceptionally eye appealing".
    Best regards,
    Dwayne F. Sessom
    Ebay ID: V-Nickel-Coins
  • ProofCentsProofCents Posts: 1,656
    I stand corrected -Sorry
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I stand corrected -Sorry >>


    Stick around. We have to continue to beat you up until the next pinata presents itself. image

    Has anyone seen a 45+?
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,187 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was thinking that AU58+ is the logical grade for when you really have to look for the rub. Thing is, some of these coins get slabbed MS61-2. Would submitting under BigOne tend to scuttle one's chances at an MS market grade and get you the loftiest of AU grades instead?
    John
    Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 7,314 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They wont give a EF45 plus........... image


    I should think an Au 58 plus will be very common eventually, nice 58 coins are in demand when their ugly ms counterparts are to much money. which would you rather have? A nice Au 58 or and ugly MS63?
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,633 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The logic behind it is that "+" coins have to meet certain criteria including exceptional eye appeal. Most 60 and 61s are baggy and have many marks on them that would exclude them from being "Exceptionally eye appealing". >>



    I've seen some nice looking 62's that were relatively free of marks. Also, using your logic, they shouldn't be using the plus for circulated coins.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • veryfineveryfine Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭
    Not all AU-58 coins have positive eye-appeal. The "plus" would hopefully identify the most attractive ones.
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't know if this is the case, but I think an AU58+ grade would make sense for a coin that would grade around MS66 or higher without the very slight wear.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭
    I don't get why the 60/61 don't get a +??? The "+" designates premium for the grade...if PCGS can determine that a coin is 61, but not 62, why can't they say it's a top 10% MS61? Makes NO sense. image
  • machoponchomachoponcho Posts: 355 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The logic behind it is that "+" coins have to meet certain criteria including exceptional eye appeal. Most 60 and 61s are baggy and have many marks on them that would exclude them from being "Exceptionally eye appealing". >>



    I've seen some nice looking 62's that were relatively free of marks. Also, using your logic, they shouldn't be using the plus for circulated coins. >>



    62's aren't included in the exemption for receiving plusses - 60's and 61's are.

    As it relates to the OP, AU58+ are AU58's with nice eye appeal. I've seen AU58's that have little to no wear but are lackluster or dark. To me, it would be rather easy to parse the AU58 grade into the tiers of non-plussed and plussed. Out of all the numeric grades out there, I feel AU58 has the widest range in terms of overall look.
    I have existed since the creation of this world and will exist until its end. Only my form will change. For these 80 human life years, I have the benefit of having a functioning body and consciousness. I will not waste this opportunity.
  • GreeniejrGreeniejr Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭
    This seems crazy but it can be very important for certain border coins for which there is a crazy jump in 50 to 60. One that leaps to mind is the 84-S Morgan that goes from 250 to 6000. An AU58 typically trades for 1000+-200 and there is a load of junk out there in AU58 holders. I have seen nice ones that would probably trade in the 1500-2000 range if they were not being held down by the junk. The 58+ is needed and appropriate.
  • hammered54hammered54 Posts: 750 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't know if this is the case, but I think an AU58+ grade would make sense for a coin that would grade around MS66 or higher without the very slight wear. >>



    bingo !!!

    AU 50...unc. coin's (60 / 61) with a bit of rib.
    AU 55 ..unc. coin's (62 thru 64) '' ''
    AU 58 ..unc. coin's gem 65 and up with a bit of rub.

    this the way I see it.
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  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I don't know if this is the case, but I think an AU58+ grade would make sense for a coin that would grade around MS66 or higher without the very slight wear. >>



    bingo !!!

    AU 50...unc. coin's (60 / 61) with a bit of rib.
    AU 55 ..unc. coin's (62 thru 64) '' ''
    AU 58 ..unc. coin's gem 65 and up with a bit of rub.

    this the way I see it. >>



    But that is not the way the ANA Grading Standards sees it.
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • hammered54hammered54 Posts: 750 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>I don't know if this is the case, but I think an AU58+ grade would make sense for a coin that would grade around MS66 or higher without the very slight wear. >>



    bingo !!!

    AU 50...unc. coin's (60 / 61) with a bit of rib.
    AU 55 ..unc. coin's (62 thru 64) '' ''
    AU 58 ..unc. coin's gem 65 and up with a bit of rub.

    this the way I see it. >>



    But that is not the way the ANA Grading Standards sees it. >>



    AU-58 - (Very Choice About Uncirculated) - The barest trace of wear may be seen on one or more of the high points of the design. No major detracting contact marks will be present and the coin will have attractive eye appeal and nearly full luster, often with the appearance of a higher grade.

    ^^ if not for the "barest trace of wear" what would the coin grade?^^ ( from ANA grading standard's)
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  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ANA Grading Standards

    About uncirculated-50
    With traces of wear on nearly all of the highest areas. At least 1/2 of the original mint luster is present

    Choice About uncirculated-55
    Only a small trace of wear is visible on the highest points of the coin.

    Very Choice About uncirculated-58
    The barest trace of wear may be seen on one or more of the highest points of the design. No major detracting contact marks will be present and the coin will have attractive eye appeal and nearly full mint luster, with the appearance of a higher grade.
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,633 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>I don't know if this is the case, but I think an AU58+ grade would make sense for a coin that would grade around MS66 or higher without the very slight wear. >>



    bingo !!!

    AU 50...unc. coin's (60 / 61) with a bit of rib.
    AU 55 ..unc. coin's (62 thru 64) '' ''
    AU 58 ..unc. coin's gem 65 and up with a bit of rub.

    this the way I see it. >>



    But that is not the way the ANA Grading Standards sees it. >>



    AU-58 - (Very Choice About Uncirculated) - The barest trace of wear may be seen on one or more of the high points of the design. No major detracting contact marks will be present and the coin will have attractive eye appeal and nearly full luster, often with the appearance of a higher grade.

    ^^ if not for the "barest trace of wear" what would the coin grade?^^ ( from ANA grading standard's) >>



    Does anyone actually use the ANA grading standards any more? What does their standards say about the use of the MS70 grade?





    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • rld14rld14 Posts: 2,390 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Plus grading will apply only to grades ranging from XF45 to MS68, with the exception of MS60 and MS61, which will not be eligible for Plus designations."

    So, 45-58 and 62-68. >>



    This makes no sense whatsoever. If a very, very high end 61 is almost a 62, why shouldn't it get a plus? >>



    Because a High End 61 is still probably a pretty beat up coin. A 60 is generally a nasty coin with no technical wear, and 61s, with few exceptions, are rarely much better. Yes there are exceptions, but it's not the rule.
    Bear's "Growl of Approval" award 10/09 & 3/10 | "YOU SUCK" - PonyExpress8|"F the doctors!" - homerunhall | I hate my car
  • rld14rld14 Posts: 2,390 ✭✭✭
    Oh, and I have seen AU58s that look like MS67s... IMO an AU58 should be, at the very least, an MS64 with the barest traces of rub.

    So take an accurately graded gem or superb gem that's got just a HINT of rub, and you have an AU58+
    Bear's "Growl of Approval" award 10/09 & 3/10 | "YOU SUCK" - PonyExpress8|"F the doctors!" - homerunhall | I hate my car
  • dohdoh Posts: 6,457 ✭✭✭


    << <i><< I don't know if this is the case, but I think an AU58+ grade would make sense for a coin that would grade around MS66 or higher without the very slight wear. >>

    bingo !!!

    AU 50...unc. coin's (60 / 61) with a bit of rib.
    AU 55 ..unc. coin's (62 thru 64) '' ''
    AU 58 ..unc. coin's gem 65 and up with a bit of rub.

    this the way I see it. >>


    image
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  • bfjohnsonbfjohnson Posts: 541 ✭✭✭
    Could be a coin that the graders thought was 63 and the finalizer said it was a 58.
    BarberSet
  • DonWillisDonWillis Posts: 961 ✭✭✭
    When I sold my set of CBHs it contained several 58+ coins. That's why prices realized for many of the coins exceeded prices for average MS63 coins.

    One of the best buys in numismatics is a beatiful MS64 with a trace of rub.
  • FlynJackFlynJack Posts: 7
    Hi Guys,
    I am new to this forum. What are the prices for regular grading and secure plus service?
    FlynJack
  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For me if it's a true 58, that's where it should stay. I don't go for all the folks that lobby for au64 etc. A true 58 should in fact show just a trace of wear on high points of coin and almost full luster that's why they have this grade. Problem is these go MS a lot. I see many coins graded 58 that belong in a lower grade AU holder IMO. I just don't see the reason to call it something it's not. If not for the rub it would be higher grade? Well yes, but the rub is there, Hey, I have a 64 coin and if it had a few less marks it would be a 65. But the marks are there just like the rub. image
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  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>For me if it's a true 58, that's where it should stay. I don't go for all the folks that lobby for au64 etc. A true 58 should in fact show just a trace of wear on high points of coin and almost full luster that's why they have this grade. Problem is these go MS a lot. I see many coins graded 58 that belong in a lower grade AU holder IMO. I just don't see the reason to call it something it's not. If not for the rub it would be higher grade? Well yes, but the rub is there, Hey, I have a 64 coin and if it had a few less marks it would be a 65. But the marks are there just like the rub. image >>




    Well now there you go again stman....
    making sense.

    I guess a lot of people think an AU-50 has no less wear than a 55 or a 58 but only a few more bagmarks...
    And I though I learned about grading a few decades ago.....sheeesh.
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>And I though I learned about grading a few decades ago.....sheeesh. >>



    You did!!! Us ol' dinosaurs just can't hang with this new wave grading. Heck, I always was able to grade Morgans, they are easy. Not any more thanks to change in grading standards. I can't believe what I see slabbed as "gem" 65. Same for Walkers, same for....... well that's it for now. image
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,633 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>And I though I learned about grading a few decades ago.....sheeesh. >>



    You did!!! Us ol' dinosaurs just can't hang with this new wave grading. Heck, I always was able to grade Morgans, they are easy. Not any more thanks to change in grading standards. I can't believe what I see slabbed as "gem" 65. Same for Walkers, same for....... well that's it for now. image >>



    Reminds me of when the schools started teaching the "new math" a few decades ago. Now we have the new grading standards.image

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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