Midnight confessions of a wannabee dealer
ArizonaJack
Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭
So much to tell, I am not sure where to start.
First a little history.....
I was a collector who's ambition was 125%.......I learned alot ( I thought) then figured I would be a dealer in coins to supplament my collection. Easy right? Read on..........
Started taking tables at my local Scottsdale show every month. I had loads of fun, met some great peeps.
The reality of how hard this biz is didn't hit untill I thought I was ready for regionals, Long Beach, some Bick shows etc etc. It was then that I discovered how hard these " dealers" work.
You get to play ball with the biggies, rock stars in the coin world, Rick Snow and Charmy are the most amazing folks out there. Eating hotwings with Brian Wagner, Rick and Charmy was my first " groupie " experience. You have made it......ya think?
Let me tell you starters how hard this is. It is gruelling. Time away from family, costs are astronomical, the deadlines and expectations are out of this world.
This is my goodbye thread to to the " coin dealer" world. I have gained the utmost respect and learned many a hard earned lesson, BUT, let me add, I have had loads of fun.
I think Jack is best off as just a collector. Those of you whom begrudge dealers and think they are all crooks, think again. They work hard for the money. It is a bust ass business. I am a bust ass guy and it wore me out quickly. I never traveled nationwide, I stuck to close to home shows, and it still wore me out. It is not all glory and luxury. There are some s$^ithole motels, some crappy meals and loads of expenses you cannot think of.
There is also a lot of fun, but thats IF you can afford it. Dont think it is easy getting into the coin biz, it IS easy getting IN, but to sustain is a VERY difficult job.
I want to say Kudos to those who have made it, and thanks for the welcome. I have never met a greater bunch of nicer people, and kudos to all of you. You know who you are. I am going back to my collection and thank all of you who have made my last 3 years as a " Wannabee " dealer so fun filled and exciting.
Not done, I'll just be on the other side of the table from now on.
Kudos, coin dealers
Aj
First a little history.....
I was a collector who's ambition was 125%.......I learned alot ( I thought) then figured I would be a dealer in coins to supplament my collection. Easy right? Read on..........
Started taking tables at my local Scottsdale show every month. I had loads of fun, met some great peeps.
The reality of how hard this biz is didn't hit untill I thought I was ready for regionals, Long Beach, some Bick shows etc etc. It was then that I discovered how hard these " dealers" work.
You get to play ball with the biggies, rock stars in the coin world, Rick Snow and Charmy are the most amazing folks out there. Eating hotwings with Brian Wagner, Rick and Charmy was my first " groupie " experience. You have made it......ya think?
Let me tell you starters how hard this is. It is gruelling. Time away from family, costs are astronomical, the deadlines and expectations are out of this world.
This is my goodbye thread to to the " coin dealer" world. I have gained the utmost respect and learned many a hard earned lesson, BUT, let me add, I have had loads of fun.
I think Jack is best off as just a collector. Those of you whom begrudge dealers and think they are all crooks, think again. They work hard for the money. It is a bust ass business. I am a bust ass guy and it wore me out quickly. I never traveled nationwide, I stuck to close to home shows, and it still wore me out. It is not all glory and luxury. There are some s$^ithole motels, some crappy meals and loads of expenses you cannot think of.
There is also a lot of fun, but thats IF you can afford it. Dont think it is easy getting into the coin biz, it IS easy getting IN, but to sustain is a VERY difficult job.
I want to say Kudos to those who have made it, and thanks for the welcome. I have never met a greater bunch of nicer people, and kudos to all of you. You know who you are. I am going back to my collection and thank all of you who have made my last 3 years as a " Wannabee " dealer so fun filled and exciting.
Not done, I'll just be on the other side of the table from now on.
Kudos, coin dealers
Aj
" YOU SUCK " Awarded 5/18/08
0
Comments
At least you left the experience unharmed, perhaps a little wiser and you have not been driven to hate coins!
Tom
Successful BST Transactions!SIconbuster, Meltdown, Mission16, slothman2000, RGjohn, braddick, au58lover, allcoinsrule, commemdude, gerard, lablade, PCcoins, greencopper, kaz, tydye, cucamongacoin, mkman123, SeaEaglecoins, Doh!, AnkurJ, Airplanenut, ArizonaJack, JJM,Tee135,LordMarcovan, Swampboy, piecesofme, Ahrensdad,
Well you can hang out with us at the show on the "other side".
I've always had fun talking to the people, buyers or sellers and never had a table.
See you there
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Nice write-up Jack, good luck on your future goals.
EAC 6024
I appreciate, concur and empathize with all you wrote... there are many other easier and more lucrative ways to earn money in this world...
The coin business in only an extention of the hobby for me and not my primary income source... I do it PT and locally (Phillie is my only overniter)... and yet it is VERY demanding and draining... I have not had a vacation or even a long weekend in over five years due to this endeavor... not whining... just saying...
...and frankly... it is starting to wear on me... alot of nice folks and some good times, to be sure... but damn tiring and time consuming...
Now... with the possibility of added demands of paperwork courtesy of the baron thieves.... oops... I mean the IRS... if that all does come to pass... I will quickly liquidate my inventory and go back to playing golf on the weekend...
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>Thanks for the informative post. It does seem grueling, particularly with the razor thin margins on sales. It almost seems like it is not worth it. >>
Especially once you start to factor in paying an accountant extra for issuing 100's of 1099's!
The Penny Lady®
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Both Charmy and Jack have mentioned something interesting: A distinct lack of time off.
Why is this? Most dealers are also their own bosses, aren't they? So, why not simply declare 'time off' and take it. Do you really have to pound out every show?
Why is it so hard to take a vacation?
<< <i>Why is this? Most dealers are also their own bosses, aren't they? >>
I think if you check with people who are their own bosses, you'll find they work many more hours than those who punch a timeclock. If it was easy money and vacations in Cabo once a month, everybody would be doing it.
<< <i>A question:
Both Charmy and Jack have mentioned something interesting: A distinct lack of time off.
Why is this? Most dealers are also their own bosses, aren't they? So, why not simply declare 'time off' and take it. Do you really have to pound out every show?
Why is it so hard to take a vacation? >>
Good question...
First... the time spent at a show is only a small block of the time that goes into doing a show... there is much more time spent finding fresh material... processing that material... preparing the inventory... paperwork... etc... I would say that for every hour I spend on a bourse floor, I spend at least two other hours doing the prep work and paperwork...
Also... if you have a store and/or website that eats up an incredible amount of time... (note--- ever see one of those whiner threads here by some angered and/or frustrated collector because they did not get a timely reply to an email or phone inquiry?)
Second... if a dealer is on a regular circuit of shows... many if not most (if not all) of them have waiting lists of other folks who would love to get your location/table... while some show promoters will allow for you to miss an occasional show without permanantly losing your table... many will not (unless a death, accident or illness are the reason for missing the show)... sometimes you need to pay for the show even if you will not attend if you wish to hold onto your location on the bourse...
Third... at least in my case... I have a FT career... in order to allow proper time to do the shows on my schedule, I use the majority of my leave time from that job to prepare for and attend the shows... this year I cut back on the shows I will do and still have little spare time.
I did schedule the entire week of the Phillie Whitman show off from my regular job, so that I could spend a few days as a tourist before doing the show... that will be my "vacation" for this year...
...one last thing... many dealers have OCD just like many collectors... we can get a little carried away and over-involved with things we are passionate about
<< <i>It doesn't take much to throw one's cash-flow situation out of whack. >>
I had cash flow problems. I signed up for, "Winning in the Cash Flow Business," by Russ Dalbey. Now I don't have any more cash flow problems, because, thanks to him, I don't have any more cash.
<< <i>
<< <i>It doesn't take much to throw one's cash-flow situation out of whack. >>
I had cash flow problems. I signed up for, "Winning in the Cash Flow Business," by Russ Dalbey. Now I don't have any more cash flow problems, because, thanks to him, I don't have any more cash. >>
<< <i>I am in the thick of it and it is exactly how you say, grueling, expensive, tiring, hard being away from family for so long, not as lucrative as my past life career... >>
My grandfather taught me a long time ago that the secret to success in business is to always treat your customers fairly, and, above all, to not be greedy...just be content with a reasonable profit above your cost, say, 10%. Having been a huge success in business, since, I can honestly sit here and tell you, my grandfather was exactly right. And all I've been doing is taking a product that cost me $10, say, adding 10%, and selling it for $20.
The amount of time involved in maintaining a website, trying to find fresh material and keeping things updated is endless. Constant shipping deadlines and pressure.
I was self financed, never had a loan from anybody, so that put a limit on my purchasing power. I did NOT want to go into debt to do this, sure, I had to pass on some great stuff on occasion, but then again, I never swam with the big fish. My most expensive coin I ever bought and sold was under 10K, many were under 5, and most were under 1K.
With a 50 hour a week day job, it just wore me down.
But, I did sleep in a Holiday Inn :-)
<< <i>...With a 50 hour a week day job, it just wore me down.
But, I did sleep in a Holiday Inn :-) >>
...and for that, you have my deepest and most sincere sympathies
The worse hotel was the one in Hollywood a cpl coin talk buddys of mine and I stayed at during a Long Beach show, nasty nasty nasty. But, playing poker at Rick's bed and breakfast made it all worth it. I even gave everybody a pair of Lizard poker sunglasses, what a night that was.
<< <i>Many of you are so correct
The amount of time involved in maintaining a website... >>
Are you sure about that? Seems to me from reading some of the messages that get posted here from time to time... "Why don't those lazy #$%&@ dealers ever post pictures of the coins they have for sale on their website?"... "many of you" have no idea how much work some of this stuff can be.
On Sunday, I purchased a few Whitman folders filled with circ merc dimes... none of the "dates" but all the rest... basically "common" coins ... for the last three evenings... AFTER working my regular job and doing the errands that most folks need to do after work (i.e. grocery shopping, house cleaning etc) ... around 2-3 hours each evening... I have been putting all these dimes into 2x2s... this involved grading and many needed to be acetoned from the long term storage they spent in the folders... now I still need to price them and put them into notebook pages for my inventory... then add them to my inventory lists to keep track of things...
I paid spot for the coins... a handful might sell... one of these days... for as much as $5 or $6 ... the rest at $2-3 ea.... someday...
OMG... you mean I might actually be selling coins for a 100% profit... yeah... if you do not count my time and that no one may ever actually want to buy them... maybe one day... all the while getting mighty rich doing it
The reward? ... well... I got to play with some cool coins... not valuable... but cool none-the-less...
...and one day... some YN (or J6P collector) will come along at a show with a limited budget... and he or she can sit down at my table with the "big time" collectors... and have a ball looking thru and choosing some coins for what might be their first collection... maybe with Dad or Mom or a grandparent or uncle or friend or maybe on their own... and I can help them, "talk" coins and maybe teach them about grading and a little history...they might even teach me a thing or two... and they, along with me, can experience one of life's little pleasures...
Glamorous? .... no... Satisfying? no doubt...
Meanwhile, I have another box of newps to process over the next few days (some bigger budget coins this time
...and I have no idea who will show up at the shows... what coins they will be seeking or what their budget might allow... and there will be a room full of other dealers... all of us hoping to do enough business in those 4-6 or maybe 8 hours a day... to carry the show... pay the bills and get us to the next show...
Like I said earlier in this thread... there are far more lucrative ways to earn money in this world... yet I love this hobby and, so far, continue to enjoy my time spent with it...
Sometimes, though... there are aspects of it that just wear at the body, mind and soul...
So... not to excuse any bad behavior ... but I just might suggest... if you think a dealer at a show should eat better.... offer to pick them up something better than a bourse dog... if they seem a bit distracted... offer to go get them a cup of coffee or bottle of water... or better yet... if you know them well enough... offer to watch their table so they can get a few minutes away to get a breath of fresh air or go to the John....
There are those of us who endeavor to spend our time and resourses to try to locate the coins that collectors look for and want to collect...and see to it that they are available for their consideration... sometimes we even have what you're looking for
... I can not speak for all dealers... but many of us do try to please... to please a breed of folks that can be very hard to please... because most collectors are picky... and selective... and they have a right to be... but it ain't easy... and most of us are not getting rich doing this...
Best of luck to you, Rick... I am sure that whatever you choose to do... you will do well... you are definately one of the good guys
(minor spelling edit
I especially love:
- talking coins to other coin people
- playing with and examining coins to see what uniqueness they have
- learning about coins from all the coin experts I come across
- holding coins and just looking at them
- collecting pretty coins and being able to look and handle them any time I feel like it because they are mine
- selling coins to other enthusiastic coin people so they too can enjoy adding a particularly special coin to their collection
- seeing the joy a customer feels when he/she fills the last hole in a set they've spent years trying to complete
I reallyt do love most all of it. But I don't like:
- the paper work
- keeping track of everything
- overly and hard to please picky people
- people who fly off the handle before getting all the facts
- not being able to take a break to the ladies room or grab a bite to eat during a show because I am working alone at my table
- making sure there are no problems getting my bags on a plane
- customers who are rude or bash my coins
- customers who put their shoes on my chair or drinks on my case
- being away from my family so often
The Penny Lady®
<< <i>Larry, although we never met in person, I have placed some real nice coins in your hands. Every transaction was high dollar and flawless, you are an example of the kind of good folks that frequent here on these BST and discussion forums.
The worse hotel was the one in Hollywood a cpl coin talk buddys of mine and I stayed at during a Long Beach show, nasty nasty nasty. But, playing poker at Rick's bed and breakfast made it all worth it. I even gave everybody a pair of Lizard poker sunglasses, what a night that was.
Jack, that was a complete blast, not just playing cards, but meeting all the young numismatists you brought together. I'm sure they count that evening as memorable as we do - and I still have my lizard glasses!
The Penny Lady®
Very nice post! You still have the hot sauce biz, I hope. Unlike many dealers, my sole income is from coins. No pension, no benefits from past jobs, no safety net. When the credit crisis hit last year, I thought that if it continued for very long it could doom the coin biz, or at least my involvment in it! With housing values dropping through the floor, credit card companies declining customers, banks not lending even to their best customers, etc. Anyway the coin market weathered the crisis with flying colors. It was one of the few business areas that thrived in the tough economy. I am extremely thankful for this and for the stabilizing of this crisis. If people stopped collecting coins, what else could I do? I make a lousy employee.
Anyway, I survived the banking crisis and am stronger for it. The coin hobby is stronger for surviving the crisis. It was a tough time for you to start in this business. I started in 1993, which was also a very tough time to start.
I hope I see you at the shows in AZ!