You can determine which coins you might want to submit for Secure Plus-some important factors

TahoeDale

Surely, not every coin should be submitted for the Secure Plus grading. But which ones? and do you need help in deciding?

Cost vs increased value: if you are paying $65 to $125 dollars a coin, many just aren't worth the submission. There has to be a possible increase in value of more than several hundred dollars to make it worthwhile.

So, most coins that might be a 53 plus will not be worthwhile, when the difference between whole grades is $250. Unless, it becomes the top pop at 53 plus. ( beating out, for the moment the 15 other 53's).

The first coin that comes to mind( for me) is a generic MS64 CBH. These are selling on the low end for 2500 to 3000, and up to 3750 for the nicer coins. But what if it is a liner-almost 65? A good price for this coin in 65 is around 8 to 10 K. And a real pq 64 is better looking than many just okay 65's.

The PCGS guides indicate a jump to $5000 would be a start for the plussed MS 64 half. While I am unaware of any results at this time, my guess is that it might be more. This is based on the acceptance by collectors that pq for grade is an easier sell than one that just makes grade.

While I would rather buy the high end MS64 before it is plussed, for around 3750, this coin now has been certified( I know-only another opinion) and can be considered in the 5000 range.

Which of these higher end bust halves might I submit? While they all do not have to say "wow" when first observed, they need to have good strike, luster( not too dark) and non-splotchy toning. A first glance will usually say it could 65, and just a few small ticks away.

Which ones would I avoid? The darker toned ones, mottled toning, larger hits in any prominent area.

Which grades would I avoid, in the CBH area? While MS 64 is a good grade to try to review, MS 65 and higher is going to be tough. I have been collecting these grades for 10 years, and every 65 and 66 I own has been a struggle to obtain--and many have been upgraded a point before I got them. So it will be a rare submission in this grade range.

Another denomination that is worth looking at, based on my past experience. I recall the impossibilty of getting high end MS Lib nickels in MS 66 upgraded to 67( or crossing 67's). But there are many I remember than were fully struck, with nice luster or toning, that were right on the edge. A MS 66plus lib will have all the right criteria for increased value, realizing that PCGS has not graded a MS 67 in years( except for the 1883 no cents)

eggbone

Great insight.
Thanks Dale

LanLord

Very good insight, and I feel comfortable that once the newness of the service wears off, this will likely be the chaste approach.

That said, I believe for a while people will be experimenting with their liners regardless of logic or profit. Trying to determine their ability to "hit a pitch" for lack of a better metaphor.

mozin

Dale makes sense, but how many of us can afford to buy MS 64 Bust Half Dollars?

TahoeDale

mozin,

You are probably correct, re the number of collectors who can afford CBH's in 64( at $3000 plus a coin)-- not very many. Even the lower circ grades can be very expensive for the rarer dates

A few more can afford MS 66 Lib nickels, and even more Franklins. But what I was trying to determine, is at what grade will cetrain coins be a likely candidate for the Secure plus service. And the cost vs the gain to be had( along with the risk of getting a non-plus in a Secure holder.)

This latter condition is not a problem for a high end coin(64.5.5/64.6) as there will still be buyers for this nice coin that doesn't plus. And it will be a great learning experience for the collector.

While one may be disappointed with some coins that do not plus( or get the next higher full grade), the attempt should only be made on the coins that have the increased value potential. It is too costly for coins valued under $1000.

And until the market tells us what plusses will bring, we all may be just guessing.

JRocco

I think a lot of coins that have been residing in plastic for awhile have been submitted numerous times.
Not to offend our host, but I believe that the grading standards have waved a bit through the years
at the major TPG's and a lot of these real nice 64's have found their way into 65 slabs and 65's into 66's etc.
Many collectors have openly said on these boards that they finally got the coin to upgrade after X amount
of times the coin was submitted (some have admitted to as many as 1/2 dozen times) so the inventory of
true Plus coins may be minimal, except in the collections of some collectors who have not played the resubmit/crack-out game.

Great thread Dale

edited to add...
now when the JRocco collection hits the streets, PCGS better hire extra help
to handle all the Secure Plus submittals sure to follow

DennisH

I just submitted my Collector's Club Secure+ freebie. I'm a Morgan VAM guy so my selection criteria had some nuances that others won't. My screening process went like this (in order):

-- what are the nicest coins for their grade that I own (XF45 and up)?
-- which coins are worth the greatest amount more in the next grade up?
-- which coins are near the top of the census condition for their variety?

Five coins made it through this initial screening. I then set them out side by side and let nature take its course. The winner was a 1901 VAM 3 Doubled Die Reverse "Shifted Eagle" in PCGS AU55 (CAC). In 55 it's worth about $4,000. In AU58 they've sold for over $10,000. I can hear the "Final Jeopardy" music playing now....

bidask

Great information, thanks Dale....