Secure Plus sales

DonWillis

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1139&Lot_No=2267

The first + coin that I know of sold in auction tonight. According to Heritage, it sold for 166% of the sale sprice in the last two sales.

Everyone is trying to figure out the premium for + coins.

Justacommeman

Link

DonWillis

Woops, there was another + coin selling today.

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1139&Lot_No=1438

According to Heritage, it looks like this + coin sold for app. 3x the price the last few coins sold for.

wondercoin

Don: I assume you are saying the coin fetched 66% over what a non + coin fetches in that same grade? If that is the case, very nice!

Also, what % of the differential "between the grades" did the coin fetch? That would be interesting information as well.

Wondercoin

Edited to add (after Don's 2nd post)... on the coin that sold for 3x, what % of the differential was present on that one as well?

Justacommeman

link 2

Bear

Verrryyyy Interesttiiinnngggg. In 6 -12 months,
I can imagine different % bonus for different
series and keys with the magic + on them. This
could be really exciting for 2010.

BigE

I would be curious to see what they are trading for sight unseen if they keep bringing this kind of money-------------------BigE

Justacommeman

<< <i>Verrryyyy Interesttiiinnngggg. >>



yep. Could be lots of things and in any combination

1) PQ coins usually sell for more regardless, plus or not. So who knows what these would have hammered without the plus
2) registry fever. extra points for sale
3) coins in Secure plus slabs sell for more

MJ

speety

You have to consider that the + coins are coins that'd probably bring premiums regardless since they are truly PQ for the grade when factoring in the premiums that the PCGS Secure Plus had on the sales price.

That being said, from the few sales I've seen so far, the prices are certaintly high...

ChrisRx

Wonder who bid on it.....

Broadstruck

DonWillis, Could I ask if PCGS is also +'ing Mint Errors

RedHerring

Strong money indeed!

Placid

Good coins to have get a +. Low pops next grade up and large price jumps.

JJM

wow, looks like the only way ill get a + is if someone does a giveaway, hint hint

RYK

I thin that percentage over (or multiple of) the grade that is +'ed is an irrelevant number. The price seems to be more related to the spread between the grade and the next one up.

BAJJERFAN

A business name if yer lookin for one Coins 'R Plus.

JJM

<< <i>A business name if yer lookin for one Coins 'R Plus. >>

Hyperion

I'm removing my comment, cause I'd rather keep my mouth shut than get banned. If I'm going to get banned, it's not going to be over "discussing the plus"

RedTiger

So far so good. I do wonder if it is a bit like the first few new coins graded when a new year of coins come out. There have been years when the first couple of coins made sell for huge prices because there are some registry participants that like to be the "first kid on the block" with the new toy. Often times prices settle down to more realistic levels as supply catches up with demand.

It will be interesting to see if this thread is active for months and years to come, where average prices for mainstream relatively high pop plus coins (eg: a common date MS65 or MS66 Morgan) settle as more and more plus coins come on market.

JohnnyBeGood

<< <i>I'm removing my comment, cause I'd rather keep my mouth shut than get banned. If I'm going to get banned, it's not going to be over "discussing the plus" >>



That's weak.... Scaredy cat, scaredy cat.....

illini420

<< <i>Wonder who bid on it.....





>>




well I bid on the 1909 MS65+ $5

but I was eventually outbid...

wondercoin

"I thin that percentage over (or multiple of) the grade that is +'ed is an irrelevant number. The price seems to be more related to the spread between the grade and the next one up."

RYK - That is why I asked my question... especially in connection with the Price Guide that, if I am not mistaken, generally has used a % of the differential in price between the grades in most cases to this point.

Wondercoin

P.S. Although I do feel there is some relevance to the % over as well.

RYK

<< <i>"I thin that percentage over (or multiple of) the grade that is +'ed is an irrelevant number. The price seems to be more related to the spread between the grade and the next one up."

RYK - That is why I asked my question... especially in connection with the Price Guide that, if I am not mistaken, generally has used a % of the differential in price between the grades in most cases to this point.

Wondercoin

P.S. Although I do feel there is some relevance to the % over as well. >>


Agreed. "Irrelevant" was not the correct word to use. I meant that it does not tell the whole story.

RYK

GoldenEyeNumismatics

I doubt an established premium for the + will ever be settled on. Premiums will be decided on a coin by coin basis based on the seller's whim.

pakasmom

<< <i>I doubt an established premium for the + will ever be settled on. Premiums will be decided on a coin by coin basis based on the seller's whim. >>



I'd agree with that assessment if you had said "buyer's" whim.

PerryHall

<< <i>

<< <i>I doubt an established premium for the + will ever be settled on. Premiums will be decided on a coin by coin basis based on the seller's whim. >>



I'd agree with that assessment if you had said "buyer's" whim. >>



Unless we are talking about a no reserve auction, wouldn't it be both the buyer's and seller's whim? They both must agree to a price for a transaction to take place.

PerryHall

Is it possible the buyer paid top dollar because of the novelty of owning a plus graded coin? Is it possible the buyer thought it had a good chance of upgrading?

ProofCents

Does this remind you of the bubble in the coin market when graded coins first came out

illini420

<< <i>Is it possible the buyer thought it had a good chance of upgrading? >>



I was sort of thinking the same thing. Since PCGS still allows submissions under their traditional service. The person who paid $23k for the 1909 $5 graded PCGS MS65+ can crack it and submit the coin under the normal service several times hoping to get the MS66 grade as they already know it's so close to that grade. If that happens, the coin is then a $35-$40k coin. If they try a dozen or so times and don't get that upgrade, they can send back under SecurePlus, get the machine to scan it and the graders will know they gave it 65+ (so there's a good shot it'll at least keep the plus upon a resubmission). Doesn't seem to be too much risk to try getting that home run of an upgrade.

adamlaneus

I think it's pretty clear that there is a significant premium for the plus.

One thing about coin pricing...it has alot to do with demand.

There have been a few prominent folks in the coin biz who have been vocally upset about 'not getting a plus'. That alone tells me that there is a huge demand; a huge value potential here. I don't have to see an auction result to predict it'll be higher.

Like all new things, there is a demand curve. The curve usually has a peak and a tail. I wonder how it'll settle in? Let's revisit this thread in five years.

lkeigwin

<< <i>

<< <i>Is it possible the buyer thought it had a good chance of upgrading? >>



I was sort of thinking the same thing. Since PCGS still allows submissions under their traditional service. The person who paid $23k for the 1909 $5 graded PCGS MS65+ can crack it and submit the coin under the normal service several times hoping to get the MS66 grade as they already know it's so close to that grade. If that happens, the coin is then a $35-$40k coin. If they try a dozen or so times and don't get that upgrade, they can send back under SecurePlus, get the machine to scan it and the graders will know they gave it 65+ (so there's a good shot it'll at least keep the plus upon a resubmission). Doesn't seem to be too much risk to try getting that home run of an upgrade. >>

Very true. Which why PCGS must get past their SecurePlus trial/learning period and move to SP for (most) all submissions. When this happens it will be a really Big One.

I hope they find a way without spiking the grading fees.
Lance.

dbcoin

I was sort of thinking the same thing. Since PCGS still allows submissions under their traditional service. The person who paid $23k for the 1909 $5 graded PCGS MS65+ can crack it and submit the coin under the normal service several times hoping to get the MS66 grade as they already know it's so close to that grade. If that happens, the coin is then a $35-$40k coin. If they try a dozen or so times and don't get that upgrade, they can send back under SecurePlus, get the machine to scan it and the graders will know they gave it 65+ (so there's a good shot it'll at least keep the plus upon a resubmission). Doesn't seem to be too much risk to try getting that home run of an upgrade.

I am guessing that all coins over a certain price point are put through the fingerprint scanner regardless if you ask for it. I don't know if it's $20000 in this case, but I don't see what a 66 gets them. Just a few thousand more according to the price guide.

coincollector2007

This 1909 $5 is the only coin that has sold strong so far in auction. I would not be bragging about how well the + coins are selling until dozens more are sold at auction.

Its like football on any given Sunday. Any nice coin can sell for strong money at an auction. You don't need a + or a bean.