CSNS Show Report
JBatDavidLawrence
Posts: 500 ✭✭✭✭✭
Tuesday-Thursday were all dealer only days....It has been kind of strange not having the public in such a large show, but we hear that they open it up tomorrow and Friday. We have heard quite a few complaints about the limited hours and days for the public from several dealers, and frankly, it does seem a little strange.
Business has been really good at the show. At least we've been able to buy a lot of nice coins. Most dealers are still a little hesitant, but the people who want to do business are certainly able to do it. It just takes a little bit of creativity.
One thing of interest is that I have seen very few + coins at the show. CAC coins are fairly available and we've bought a ton of those. Unfortunately the + coins that we have seen have been pretty uninteresting (generic gold) and it seems that most dealers are not submitting through the new SecurePlus service. I'm not sure if it's the increased cost of the submissions or the fact that the crack-out guys think that no one is interested in a coin that has been digitally mapped. Perhaps it just hasn't caught on very quickly, but I don't have any real answers, just speculation.
One random thing of interest is that the soft drink of choice in the Milwaukee Convention Hall seems to be RC Cola...I haven't seen a RC Cola in years and didn't know that it had such a presence in Milwaukee.
Hopefully business continues tomorrow and the first day of the public visitors turns out to be a busy one!
Business has been really good at the show. At least we've been able to buy a lot of nice coins. Most dealers are still a little hesitant, but the people who want to do business are certainly able to do it. It just takes a little bit of creativity.
One thing of interest is that I have seen very few + coins at the show. CAC coins are fairly available and we've bought a ton of those. Unfortunately the + coins that we have seen have been pretty uninteresting (generic gold) and it seems that most dealers are not submitting through the new SecurePlus service. I'm not sure if it's the increased cost of the submissions or the fact that the crack-out guys think that no one is interested in a coin that has been digitally mapped. Perhaps it just hasn't caught on very quickly, but I don't have any real answers, just speculation.
One random thing of interest is that the soft drink of choice in the Milwaukee Convention Hall seems to be RC Cola...I haven't seen a RC Cola in years and didn't know that it had such a presence in Milwaukee.
Hopefully business continues tomorrow and the first day of the public visitors turns out to be a busy one!
John Brush
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
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Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
<< <i>Can you still get Sprecher root beer there? >>
I don't know about at the show, but yes you can buy it in the Milwaukee area. (for some reason I thought it was made in Milwaukee).
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
The only place that has it is at the convention center
Menomonee Falls Wisconsin USA
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistr...dset.aspx?s=68269&ac=1">Musky 1861 Mint Set
I have sold more walkers than anything so far,then morgans and peace.
So far so good..more news tomorrow.
I did buy 2 plus morgans,and will be doing all my plus submissions in Las Vegas.
Larry
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15
Seems like Central States needs to get a litte more user friendly for both the public and the dealers.
For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.
The Reeded Edge
Seems so.
I guess dealers need more time to buy and sell to each other w/o the public being around.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Dealers can do Dealer to dealer transactions with the public there- it is not that problematic
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Is that policy limiting public attendence a spillover from the ANA's similiar policy?.
Seems so.
I guess dealers need more time to buy and sell to each other w/o the public being around. >>
I hope you're not blaming the dealers for this. I don't know any dealers who were happy that the public wasn't able to attend yesterday.
I wanted to attend also but, because of time constrictions, I wanted Thurs and Fri. I sure ain't driving all the way to Milwaukee for for just one day.
Here's my brief show report so far...
Weather is cold (at least for this SoCal gal) but very pretty and sunny. Picked up a really cool large German medal from WWI because it had a fantastic dragon on the reverse - I like dragons! Bought some beauties, including a great 1877 PCGS 64 BN (already sold it!), some nice large cents, and some other pretty Indian cents. Went to the PNG party at our hotel bar after PNG day on Wednesday, had some great wine there, chatted with several dealers, then went to the Indian casino to play some poker. Won a little, then lost it at Black Jack, dang it! Played with Rick, and 3 other dealers, plus my son Troy. Went to Maders for dinner last night, the food was amazing! Then ended up going back to the casino. I hear there's a big basketball game in town so the restaurants will be crowded tonight. Not sure where we're going.
We're really looking forward to seeing the public and some of you board members today! I'm at table 113, on the left side wall - just look for my big red "The Penny Lady" banner!!!!
Here are photos of my new medal, plus a couple photos of us walking around town last night (that's Troy in the sweatshirt), and under the Maders sign just before we went in (Rick Snow, me and Ron Mirr). By the way, Milwaukee has some great architecture!
https://thepennylady.com/
These concerns need to be expressed to the heads at Central States so that future conventions can be run on a more user friendly schedule.
For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.
The Reeded Edge
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>Can you still get Sprecher root beer there? >>
The cream soda is also amazing.
They should have allowed the public in at 12:00 on Thursday. It was kind of slow with just dealers here, since they don't buy from me. It did give me more time to find things.
Friday was very good and there were lots of collectors here. I think the delay in opening up to the public hurt the heritage auction the most, unless you were there snapping up the occasional bargain.
Update - I had a 2 hour layover at Las Vegas and won $600 more there.
The show ended up being pretty good. I sold a 1856 MS-63 in a PR holder for $20K, 1858/7 MS-63 for $14,500, 1877 MS-64BN for $8K and picked up some really neat stuff.
Saturday died after 2:00. The show started too late and ended too early.
I agree that the Central States show schedule was strange, and am hopeful the bourse officials will listen to the collectors and dealers and make appropriate changes for next year's show. Friday was busy and I sold a lot of coins, but Saturday was surprisingly slow and the show was a ghosttown by 1-2pm. The best part of Saturday was having several board members stop by to chat or just say hi. I really enjoy seeing and meeting the people behind the avatar!
Our flight out wasn't until 8pm on Saturday but by 3pm there was no reason to stay at the show, so we packed up and ended up preferring to hang out at the airport for 4 hours (at least there we could get some decent food and tasty drinks). Also, we were not alone since we ran into PCGS, NGC, Heritage, and several other dealers all at the same restaurant in our terminal!
Troy and I didn't get home until after 11pm, but then we had to get my inventory ready to set up at another show early this morning. Even though this was only my small monthly show (about 20 dealers), which I try not to miss, I sold more today than I sold all day on Saturday at Central States. And shortly after I got home from the show today, I pretty much passed out and just now woke up! The show today marked the end of the most grueling schedule of numerous back to back shows I've ever done - and probably won't do again! I look forward to becominhg reacquainted with my own pillow , and spending some quality time with my very patient hubby and fiesty kitty.
https://thepennylady.com/
Have been hitting the tables pretty regularly at Casino AZ, just a cpl miles from my house, playing 4-8 and doin well so far.
Looks like I may make the summer Long Beach show as a collector...I am back to the box of 20 as of now.
Great show reports gang, thanks for your time !
<< <i>Is CSNS a dealer organization or a collector organization? If it's the later, the officers need to be voted out of office. >>
To be honest, its an organization which some of its officers/board members have over-inflated egos. And yes, some of them are way past their "Good Thru" date. It is an organization that deserves a house-cleaning like what happened at the ANA back in 2007. As I said in another thread, it will never happen.
https://thepennylady.com/
I'm not sure about you, but I'm not looking forward to spending 3 weeks of my life in Chicago over the next few years! That's a bit overkill.
Also, just as an fyi, Kevin Foley has been the bourse chairman for CSNS for several years now. I'm not sure that it was his decision to not allow the public in, but either way, the show was a bit too long.
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
https://thepennylady.com/
<< <i>Charmy,
I'm not sure about you, but I'm not looking forward to spending 3 weeks of my life in Chicago over the next few years! That's a bit overkill.
Also, just as an fyi, Kevin Foley has been the bourse chairman for CSNS for several years now. I'm not sure that it was his decision to not allow the public in, but either way, the show was a bit too long. >>
I agree. When we were notified that the Mid-America show was being eliminated we initially felt a bit of melancholy thinking that we weren't going to have any major coin shows in the Chicago area. Now we hear the CSNS and summer ANA conventions are going to be semi-permanently staying in the area it's a bit of Chicago overkill, and the shows themselves aren't even in the city center area, but out in the outskirt suburbs. I am not looking forward to it.
As for the show itself, the attendance was a little weaker than I expected. Wholesale activity was particularly strong and there was a lot of demand for common, fungible coins, especially silver dollars. As for the retail side of things, it was a mixed review. Some dealers reported very strong retail sales while many others were dissapointed as they reported a lot of interest from the public but few actual sales.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>My understanding is that this was Kevin Foley's first year as bourse chairman for this show (he used to be in charge of the MidAmerica show which I heard has folded). I can't imagine they won't make changes since everyone, dealers and collectors, were very disappointed in the schedule and turnout for this show. But the interesting thing will be to see how the new ANA Chicago show will affect the Central States show which will also be held in the Chicago area next year. >>
And Charmy, there is one other show that it is in Chicago (the burbs, that is) - the Illinois Numismatic Association (ILNA) Fall Show & Convention, held on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday after Labor Day (unless otherwise by the powers that be in that organization). The ILNA Show has over 220 tables. The advantages of the ILNA Show - free admission, free parking, and dealers from all over. This show would be good for dealers who find the cost of setting up at the Chicago ANA cost prohibitive.
Now getting back to CSNS and their show. If Kevin Foley is running the show, then he needs to realize that he cannot run the CSNS Show like his two other Chicago shows, Chicago Paper Money Expo and Chicago Int'l Coin Fair. Quite frankly, with CSNS and ANA planning to be in the Chicagoland area for the next few years or so and the four Sunday monthly shows, I predict that the coin market there will burn out - just a matter of when.
Where was WTGG ? never stopped by my table ?
Walkers and peace dollars are getting hotter !!
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15
<< <i>Charmy,
I'm not sure about you, but I'm not looking forward to spending 3 weeks of my life in Chicago over the next few years! That's a bit overkill.
Also, just as an fyi, Kevin Foley has been the bourse chairman for CSNS for several years now. I'm not sure that it was his decision to not allow the public in, but either way, the show was a bit too long. >>
Found this on the CSNS website under "Conventions"
General chairman - Kevin Foley
Deputy chairperson - Patti Finner
Bourse chairman - Jerry Lebo
<< <i>Dealer to dealer trades were good for me...not much retail this time.
Where was WTGG ? never stopped by my table ?
Walkers and peace dollars are getting hotter !! >>
Come to think of it, I didn't see too much of Larry this time.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>I was shocked and upset to learn that the public could not attend the show until Friday, without paying for an early bird badge. Such a policy seems very bad for both collectors and dealers, and I can't fathom what type of thinking led to such a policy/decision. >>
You want to understand this, figure out who it was good for, not who it was bad for.
<< <i>Charmy - pretty Ragdoll. >>
Mowgli, forgive my ignorance, but what's a "ragdoll" - my medal or my cat?
https://thepennylady.com/
<< <i>Charmy - pretty Ragdoll. >>
that's a ragdoll?? looks nothing like mine.
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<< <i>Even worse than the ANA and CSNS being in the same city, CSNS and the Chicago Intl Coin Fair will be in the same place one week apart. >>
HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I always find it interesting and depressing to read comments from folks who weren't in attendance and who have some of their facts skewed ! Dealers and collectors with genuine concerns about Central States need to make personal contact with either the show administration - Kevin Foley - and/or the Board of Governors. Give me a chance to respond to complaints as well. Regards,
Ray Lockwood - CSNS Governor & Education Director
P.S., by the way, the Educational Exhibits and Educational seminars at our just-completed Milwaukee show were of the highest quality. Just ask anyone who took part in the "shows within the show."
https://thepennylady.com/
Now as for Milwaukee, it was my first time there and wow what an underated city. A waterfront and beach that make you feel like you are in Key West. Large homes just north of downtown near the water. Very active community with many runners, walkers, and bike riders. I've seen many major cities in the US and this one ranks near the top and I would have never have thought. Went to green bay the next day to check out Lambeu and very shocking that a small town like green bay could support a football team. Amazingly, I learned that they actually have a 30 year waiting list for season tickets. I guess most of their fans drive from distances at least 50 miles away. Very happy with the vacation to milwaukee and chicago, but the show wasn't all that great.
<< <i>I attended the show and the consensus I got was it was a disappointment for most dealers. Many dealers feel it is the economy and show saturation, there is a big regional show almost every week now. Retail traffic was weak as you could count the number of people down each aisle on saturday afternoon and even saturday morning. I think the ones that drove a few hundred miles were all right since they didn't have much overhead, but I feel for the guys who came by plane. It seems like anymore that the FUN january show is the only show where it is a blockbuster show for everyone.
Now as for Milwaukee, it was my first time there and wow what an underated city. A waterfront and beach that make you feel like you are in Key West. Large homes just north of downtown near the water. Very active community with many runners, walkers, and bike riders. I've seen many major cities in the US and this one ranks near the top and I would have never have thought. Went to green bay the next day to check out Lambeu and very shocking that a small town like green bay could support a football team. Amazingly, I learned that they actually have a 30 year waiting list for season tickets. I guess most of their fans drive from distances at least 50 miles away. Very happy with the vacation to milwaukee and chicago, but the show wasn't all that great. >>
The Saturday attendance levels were disappointing while Friday didn't appear that bad for a Friday. Some of the higher end dealers actually felt the show exceeded their expectations.
During the show the weather was mostly good for that time of year. The weather could have had an effect on the show attendance numbers.
As for the Packers in Green Bay, it has been said repeatedly that if the Packers had a conventional ownership structure (they are a community-owned non-profit organization) they would have been long gone since Green Bay is realistically a community too small to support a big four sports team.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>As usual....talk is cheap ! Actions speak louder than words. The CSNS show schedule next year at Rosemont will be changed in direct response to the negative comments heard from dealers and public alike. While it is difficult to please everyone, an attempt will be made by dividing Saturday into three parts: First, a shortened CSNS dealer setup time. Second, a shortened time for Early Birds, Third, five hours for the public.
I always find it interesting and depressing to read comments from folks who weren't in attendance and who have some of their facts skewed ! Dealers and collectors with genuine concerns about Central States need to make personal contact with either the show administration - Kevin Foley - and/or the Board of Governors. Give me a chance to respond to complaints as well. Regards,
Ray Lockwood - CSNS Governor & Education Director
P.S., by the way, the Educational Exhibits and Educational seminars at our just-completed Milwaukee show were of the highest quality. Just ask anyone who took part in the "shows within the show." >>
I'll level with you, Ray, in my more formative years, when I had been spending more serious money on coins, I'd have avoided a preferential setup like that like the plague. Today, understandably, perhaps, it's of little consequence to me that "early birders" may have beaten me to the finish, so to speak, as I'm not, anymore, going to any of these shows looking for the top coins for my collections. The special dealer setup times had never bothered me, as the net effect of what they're doing, there, really, is allocating their inventories among the various booths or tables more judiciously. I'd have found it insulting to tell me, though, had I wanted the first pick of the litter, so to speak, just pay the "Early Bird" fee. If only on principal, I'd have avoided a show set up like that.
<< <i>One thing of interest is that I have seen very few + coins at the show. CAC coins are fairly available and we've bought a ton of those. Unfortunately the + coins that we have seen have been pretty uninteresting (generic gold) and it seems that most dealers are not submitting through the new SecurePlus service. I'm not sure if it's the increased cost of the submissions or the fact that the crack-out guys think that no one is interested in a coin that has been digitally mapped. >>
I think things will go better when they break out the plus submissions from the digital mapping, and gear up to digitally map all the coins submitted. At that point, PCGS will approach the stated goal of cleaning up the pops and the coin doctoring.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...