another fake 1868 gold dollar on ebay....look and learn

ambro51

Heres another fake. some good closeups...a great learning experience to see a counterfeit up close. Several of these images exactly match those in the Fivaz counterfeit detection manual. PLUS, note the poor quality of the surfaces, and the fat rounded look of the lettering. I emailed him, lets see if he pulls it. NEVER buy an 1868 raw. never.

One of the hallmarks on a counterfeit is that the devices and portrait have exactly the same surface texture as the fields of the coin. You will NEVER see this on a genuine piece. Also, note the rounded breaks from the fields into the devices and lettering. This is always crisp on a genuine coin.


http://cgi.ebay.com/10-500-MINTED-TYPE-3-OVERDATE-1868-over-7-1-GOLD-/260592915727?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item3cac8c550f

kimber45ACP

link

kimber45ACP

I didn't know that the letters E and S were considered denticles.

coinguy1

Listing removed.

ambro51

good. I do copy out these images...and will eventually develop the website further to include counterfeit detection. Meanwhile, Ill continue to watch ebay like a red tailed hawk and see what good I can do in that regard. After dinner tonite Ill load them into photobucket and post on this thread...for reference purposes.

ambro51

Here are some images which the seller had worked really hard on to explain away why his coin was special and different. Yes indeed. High quality pictures of counterfeits are very valuable in showing how these are different from real coins. Study these, look at the letters and surfaces....how the letters are fat and rounded, and how the overall look of the devices and field are exactly the same. Note also, the lack of sharp contact nicks in the field, instead you see shallow rounded depressions. This is what happens with a transfer die counterfeit. A real coin is made from a die which is struck from a master hub, then surfaced off....this gives sharp definition between the field and letters. On the copy, the die is made all at once, and by the nature of the transfer it is impossible to get this degree of crispness. Raised lines, which he works really hard at explaining away, are also never on a real coin.

Suspicion is raised at once when the Overdate from 1867 to 1868 is mentioned. Walter Breen LOVED to find and verify Overdates. Yet, he never mentions a 67/68.
Fivaz mentions several diagnostics on counterfeit 1868's, keep in mind that not ALL coins will match ALL the diagnostics, since all these copy dies are low quality and fell apart in many ways. You dont need to see all the parts of a crash test dummy to tell that its not a real person. Same applies with coins.

One major giveaway on this coin is the double effect on top of the headdress





Flawless and Sharp Reeding? You betcha. Fakes have stronger and deeper reeding than a genuine coin, which usually shows this to be a bit rounded and not that deep. Most fakes...the reeding is too sharp, too wide and too strong.


compare the overall "LOOK" of the fake, especially the letters in UNITED, with a genuine coin. Note also, on the fake, LIBERTY is nearly missing. while some genuine gold dollars, especially the 1873 and 1874 show this...a genuine 1868 did NOT. Compare also the depressions in the field on the fake, toward the lower left past the point of the neck....soft rounded pits. Then look at how the marks and nicks on the REAL coin show up. They present a sharp look, with a different surface look from the coin.




Be on your Toes boys and girls....fakes are out there and they are looking for YOU!

erickso1

Thanks for the comparison.

The letters in United is very noticeable after you detailed it, even to my untrained eye. Does it look like the letters on the counterfeit are sloped away (as in running down hill away from the camera) in United? Like that part of the coin might be somewhat convex?