Is there an orderly way for PCGS to establish prices for Plussed coins, rather than leaving it to th
Longacre
Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
I was a little surprised when PCGS announced to the free world that Plusses would be granted to a select few coins, but then stopped there rather than continuing to the next logical step. The next logical step would be, similar to what the CAC has done, to establish an orderly market and prices for these Plussed coins.
In essence, the CAC controls the entire “supply chain” in the CAC-stickered coin market-- they receive coins from dealers and collectors, they are the final arbiter as to whether the coin gets a green or gold sticker, and then they finally dictate to the market as a whole what the price of that coin should be, by publishing bid prices for stickered coins. By default, it appears that the CAC can also control the pricing for Plussed coins, by essentially establishing bid prices for stickered coins, notwithstanding whether they have a Plus or not.
Should PCGS get into the business of establishing a market and pricing for Plussed coin similar to what the CAC has done, or should it be left outside of PCGS’s control to those who troll the bourse?
In essence, the CAC controls the entire “supply chain” in the CAC-stickered coin market-- they receive coins from dealers and collectors, they are the final arbiter as to whether the coin gets a green or gold sticker, and then they finally dictate to the market as a whole what the price of that coin should be, by publishing bid prices for stickered coins. By default, it appears that the CAC can also control the pricing for Plussed coins, by essentially establishing bid prices for stickered coins, notwithstanding whether they have a Plus or not.
Should PCGS get into the business of establishing a market and pricing for Plussed coin similar to what the CAC has done, or should it be left outside of PCGS’s control to those who troll the bourse?
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
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Who is John Galt?
<< <i>In essence, the CAC controls the entire “supply chain” in the coin market-- >>
I hope you are kidding. CAC is a very small part of the overall coin market.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Shouldnt the market establish the prices? >>
Yes and it does.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>In essence, the CAC controls the entire “supply chain” in the coin market-- >>
I hope you are kidding. CAC is a very small part of the overall coin market. >>
Sorry, this should have read, "...in the CAC stickered coin market." I will go can one of my secretaries posthaste.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Yes, PCGS should develop a "Buy Guide" which would contain the value PCGS would pay to buy any coins (not just plus coins) in their holders. >>
There is no way PCGS would take on this task and commitment. Why would they?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>In essence, the CAC controls the entire “supply chain” in the coin market-- >>
I hope you are kidding. CAC is a very small part of the overall coin market. >>
Sorry, this should have read, "...in the CAC stickered coin market." I will go can one of my secretaries posthaste.
Is that because she posted in haste and neglected to read through the post before posting said post?
<< <i>Shouldnt the market establish the prices? >>
Agreed.
It does by if the price too high, no sales.
The whole concept of a sight-unseen market has proven flawed. Rare coins are not fungible and similarly graded coins, even with "plus", CAC, etc are worth (and sell for) significantly different amounts, depending*.
*Depending upon:
Who's selling
Who's buying
Each of the above's financial condition at the time of sale
each coins' unique attributes.
2) On March 25, the day PCGS Secure Plus was announced, over 300,000 Plus prices were loaded into the PCGS Price Guide. Since that time many of those prices have been updated and will continue to be updated based on market dynamics.
3) On March 29 Certified Coin Exchange began accepting bids on + coins. As of today there are app. $30 million in bids on these coins.
The Secure Plus market has been established and is growing.
<< <i>Sounds like arbitrary price manipulation to me. Reporting or even estimating is fine, manipulation is not. Wouldn't touch it with a 20-ft politician. >>
PCGS, however, works as an independent firm. If they were to have a two-way market, they would lose trust as it would be in their interest to undergrade coins until it came time for them to sell. Sure, they may be asked to buy a newly upgraded coin back, but that would just lead them to undergrade consistently. Basically, PCGS's job is to grade the coins without any claim to market value. CAC's job is to approve coins so buyers know they always have a place that will buy.
<< <i>In essence, the CAC controls the entire “supply chain” in the CAC-stickered coin market-- they receive coins from dealers and collectors, they are the final arbiter as to whether the coin gets a green or gold sticker, and then they finally dictate to the market as a whole what the price of that coin should be, by publishing bid prices for stickered coins. >>
"Dictate to the market"? A wee bit dramatic, no? I'm pretty sure individual buyers and sellers are able to use CAC's pricing any way they they please. Or not use it at all.
How so? Would you have preferred that we have no guidelines at all? Did you expect that we would manually load over 300,000 prices one at a time? Or should the prices have been left blank?
I believe that in all cases the prices posted for "+" grades were very conservative. Subsequently we have been adjusting many of these prices - one at a time - upwards.
PCGS does not buy and sell coins. We have nothing to gain or lose based on prices published by us. Therefore there is no reason for us to manipulate anything.
The PCGS Price Guide is is a service that we offer. You can take advantage of it, or ignore it. It's up to you.
<< <i>Sounds like arbitrary price manipulation
How so? Would you have preferred that we have no guidelines at all? Did you expect that we would manually load over 300,000 prices one at a time? Or should the prices have been left blank?
I believe that in all cases the prices posted for "+" grades were very conservative. Subsequently we have been adjusting many of these prices - one at a time - upwards.
PCGS does not buy and sell coins. We have nothing to gain or lose based on prices published by us. Therefore there is no reason for us to manipulate anything.
The PCGS Price Guide is is a service that we offer. You can take advantage of it, or ignore it. It's up to you. >>
I agree that many of the plus price increases were done conservatively....especially on coins with a higher rarity number.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Arguably, publishing high prices for PR70 "modern crap" could help legitimize that market, thereby generating many new submissions. But I digress...
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
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